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One question for Creationists, and another for Evolutionists

K

kmkemp

Active Member
Whether or not you buy into the theory of punctuated equilibrium, you must account for the sudden changes apparent through the fossil record. If you are only going by Darwin, then there is a huge hole in your theory of a constant rate of change in mutations since the evidence doesn't support that.
 
Yerda

Yerda

Veteran Member
kmkemp said:
Whether or not you buy into the theory of punctuated equilibrium, you must account for the sudden changes apparent through the fossil record. If you are only going by Darwin, then there is a huge hole in your theory of a constant rate of change in mutations since the evidence doesn't support that.
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I know Darwin advocated a gradual change, but I don't recall reading about constant rates.
 
rojse

rojse

RF Addict
Evolution does not occur at constant rates.

The Cambrian Explosion, which occured during the Cambrian Period more than five hundred million years ago, shows great changes in animal fossil records.

Hope this helps.
 
murdocsvan

murdocsvan

Member
James Humphreys said:
The second question is for those who believe that evolution occurred completely as a natural process, without any input from an Intelligent Designer. How would the existence of an eternal human spirit affect the theory of evolution? Please try to put aside for now, if you can, whether such a thing could be proved or not.
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well, i think it is very debatable, but i dont think its something that anyone can really contend with on a mental level.

that sounds very vague, but what i mean is its not something considered by evolutionists because its purely a spiritual idea. evolutionists would not agree with the idea of a soul or such because it would mean there is something bigger behind the picture. it would suggest that maybe there IS a greater being that is responsible for the human race. i mean, if we had a spirit or soul, then there would be no reason, in the eyes of an evolutionist, why animals wouldnt too. if there was a spirit, then all spirits would be identicle, unless they we're also suspetible to change, which would be highly unlikely as they would not be able to breed, seeming as all humans and animals are the vessels for these spirits. so if there was a spirit, then most evolutionists and scientists alike would look at them as simply as the base for life on earth, like the foundations of a building

also evolutionists would not be able to accept a fact such as this because there is no concrete evidence for it, or theory with factual evidence.
 
rojse

rojse

RF Addict
If you cannot prove that a soul exists, how can you make definitive statements about how it affects my wellbeing?
 
Super Universe

Super Universe

Defender of God
You cannot prove to me that you've ever loved anything, your first pet or your parents or your first girlfriend.

Yet, somehow, this thing called love is more important to us than things we can see, weigh, measure, and quantify.
 
painted wolf

painted wolf

Grey Muzzle
Whether or not you buy into the theory of punctuated equilibrium, you must account for the sudden changes apparent through the fossil record. If you are only going by Darwin, then there is a huge hole in your theory of a constant rate of change in mutations since the evidence doesn't support that.
Click to expand...

actually as much of a fan of Gould as I am... Punctuated Equilibrium is still very sketchy and not very well evidenced.
As we "fill in the gaps" in the fossil reccord we learn more about the gradual changes in evolution.
The Cambrian Explosion wasn't that sudden. We have found better evidence that the life forms of the "explosion" had tracable ancestors and that life just keep chugging along. What the Cambrian Explosion was, was the discovery of a lot of well preserved specimins due to the (un)forunate mud slides that killed them. The Cambrian Explosion was a snapshot of history, not evidence of a "spontanious creation/evolution".

The fossil reccord isn't full of sudden changes, it is full of areas of fuzzy information. But those fuzzy bits are being filled in all the time thanks to new discoveries. Such as the new specimins from the Triassic of New Mexico that are showing that Dinosaurs didn't appear suddenly and take over the world. They appeared gradually and shared the world for a long time with several other groups like synapsids, dinocephalians and so on.

wa:do
 
rojse

rojse

RF Addict
You cannot prove to me that you've ever loved anything, your first pet or your parents or your first girlfriend.
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I can prove my love for things. Love is based on chemical changes in the brain, and we can check the changes as we think about things. Although it does not change the significance of our feelings, we can explain it in purely rational and scientific terms.
 
Super Universe

Super Universe

Defender of God
Love is based on chemical changes in the brain huh? No, love is based on passion. Desire. Yearning. It may cause chemical changes in the brain but so does chocolate, so do drugs, so does starvation.

If you attempt to put love into purely scientific terms it doesn't work. It's like trying to make water dry.
 
painted wolf

painted wolf

Grey Muzzle
huh, guess you never heard of dry water...
It's been devoloped for fire fighting and other applications. You can even run electronics submerged in it. Nothing gets wet.
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]As you can see, a running laptop is fully immersed in Sapphire, which I hope you'll appreciate is a fluorinated ketone with a chemical structure of CF3CF2C(O)CF(CF3)2 (for those of you wondering). They pulled it out, let the fluid drain off and out of the laptop - and it kept working. Amazing. The slideshow on the page referenced above shows even more amazing Sapphire tricks. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The laptop did not short out because the fluid is non-conductive (unlike water from a fire hose - note that ultrapure water is not very conductive either). The fact that Sapphire takes 25 times less energy to evaporate caused the heat of the system to "boil" it off quickly (from New Scientist). [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]According to Fire Safety World, NOVEC 1230 fire protection fluid has zero ozone depletion potential and an atmospheric lifetime of just five days, the lowest for halocarbon alternatives. Its global warming potential is one; lower than any halocarbon agent acceptable for use in occupied spaces. [/FONT]
Click to expand...

http://www.technovelgy.com/ct/Science-Fiction-News.asp?NewsNum=94
When does spilling water not make something wet? This question may sound like the beginning of a riddle, but scientists at the College of France in Paris have actually found a way to move a liquid across a surface while keeping it dry. Their results appear in today's issue of the journal Nature.
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http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=000D2D2D-1D4E-1C5F-B882809EC588ED9F

so if water can be dry... then I guess love can be a chemical reaction. :cool:

wa:do
 
Yerda

Yerda

Veteran Member
Super Universe said:
Yet, somehow, this thing called love is more important to us than things we can see, weigh, measure, and quantify.
Click to expand...
This is not relevant to souls. If they are objects but not empirical objects, there is no grounds, not even in principle, for maintaining that they are real.
 
Super Universe

Super Universe

Defender of God
painted wolf

painted wolf

Grey Muzzle
you didn't read the second article did you?

oh well, its a tad off topic anyway. ;)

But Jaiket is right. Life is the result of Chemical reactions. No reactions no life.

wa:do
 
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