Oneness

[TransmutingSoul]

I believe in a higher power of some kind. So do Bahai. (The understanding of that higher power varies.)
I believe that certain virtues are beneficial. So do Baha'i.

There. That's my 'in agreement' list.

Great, that will do.

I am sure you will also be against conflict, work towards the environment, be kind to animals and give of yourself to help your community, so in that way, we each incur own way contribute to a better world.

Regards Tony

 

[Vinayaka]

Great, that will do.

I am sure you will also be against conflict, work towards the environment, be kind to animals and give of yourself to help your community, so in that way, we each incur own way contribute to a better world.

Regards Tony

Those were all covered in the virtues statement. Will you admit that you agree to any differences at all? or did you even bother to read the list of a person with an anti-Baha'i agenda? They've all been addressed before, unsuccessfully, but some days a guy just figures he's bored enough to take one last stab at it.

 

[Vinayaka]

Are you saying you did not create this thread in the the basis of your dreams?

So does socialism and communism.

Oh I think we all know why this thread was started. But it seems although it was placed in 'debates' this 'oneness' idea isn't actually up for debate.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

And they have made a positive difference to the world despite some setbacks that have been investigated and rectified.

Firstly my over generalisation of the bigger picture has given you wrong impressions. So I apologise for that mistake

Yes they have made some positive inroads and that is acknowledged by the Baha'i participation in them.

Yet many issues still need to be addressed.

Bull, see how the UN is really directed
Our Board | unfoundation.org
Or ignorant it if you want like you have ignored several of my salient points

This was a result of.my error of over generalisation, so again I apologise.

My comments are not directed at all those people that work naught but the good of all humamity, but at the National level, where self interest overrides any universal good that can come from UN Resolutions. So many Resolutions are just words on paper and have made little change to National Leaders goals and ambitions.

We can go through them and see if anything much changed for the people.

A good example is human rights violations in Iran, many UN Resolutions, yet they are ignored.

See what you wrote, do you understand what you wrote?

Maybe you do not understand what I wrote, maybe explain what you see was an error and I can clarify.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Oh I think we all know why this thread was started. But it seems although it was placed in 'debates' this 'oneness' idea isn't actually up for debate.

I see you hit the nail on the head.

There is most likely no lasting future for humanity as it continues to produce more destructive infernal weapons of war, in in the guise of peace. So unless there is a recognition that we are one people on one planet, it is not really a negotiation, in the end it will be a necessity.

Regards Tony

 

[Vinayaka]

I see you hit the nail on the head.

There is most likely no lasting future for humanity as it continues to produce more destructive infernal weapons of war, in in the guise of peace. So unless there is a recognition that we are one people on one planet, it is not really a negotiation, in the end it will be a necessity.

Regards Tony

So you did start this thread just to proselytize, and 'oneness' isn't actually up for debate? It was just a setup for preaching what you think it is. Good to know. Thanks for letting me know I hit the nail on the head.

 

[ChristineM]

Firstly my over generalisation of the bigger picture has given you wrong impressions. So I apologise for that mistake

Yes they have made some positive inroads and that is acknowledged by the Baha'i participation in them.

Yet many issues still need to be addressed.



This was a result of.my error of over generalisation, so again I apologise.

My comments are not directed at all those people that work naught but the good of all humamity, but at the National level, where self interest overrides any universal good that can come from UN Resolutions. So many Resolutions are just words on paper and have made little change to National Leaders goals and ambitions.

We can go through them and see if anything much changed for the people.

A good example is human rights violations in Iran, many UN Resolutions, yet they are ignored.



Maybe you do not understand what I wrote, maybe explain what you see was an error and I can clarify.

Regards Tony

The failure of Iran to adhere to a UN resolution is hardly the fault of the UN.

They can make resolutions but can only enforce them if the country in question agrees. Take Israel's refusal to cooperate with multiple UN resolutions as an example.

I understood precisely what you wrote, you wrote "elected" then decried this as a bad thing.

I simply do not agree that a religious dictatorship governed by a religious elite using the name of a bogus, imaginary god as their sword is the way forward. Huge swathes of the world have been run on those lines throughout history and never for the improvement of the people but for the greed of the religion.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Those were all covered in the virtues statement. Will you admit that you agree to any differences at all? or did you even bother to read the list of a person with an anti-Baha'i agenda? They've all been addressed before, unsuccessfully, but some days a guy just figures he's bored enough to take one last stab at it.

I read the list an I offered to you I still see some agreement points in your list, and yes there are disagreements, that I see are but personal preferences of faith. In the past it has not been fruitful for either of us to discuss them further, you are most likely of the same mind with this.

I personally see that that the shining spark of truth comes forth only after the clash of differing opinions.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

The failure of Iran to adhere to a UN resolution is hardly the fault of the UN.

Thus my statement of being bound by old world order thoughts and actions.

The UN needs to be given enforcement powers over National self interests.

A good example in the news now. No Nation can invade another Nation, all National boarders need to be set by the UN and enforced by the UN.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I understood precisely what you wrote, (i am assuming the OP, and not your attack on the UN) i simply do not agree that a religious dictatorship governed by a religious elite using the name of a bogus, imaginary god as their sword is the way forward. Huge swathes of the world have been run on those lines throughout history and never for the improvement of the people but for the greed of the religion.

This is a but a gross misunderstanding of the OP.

It has absolutly naught to do about religious dictatorships.

Regards Tony

 

[Vinayaka]

Maybe both as individuals and humanity, we are still way to selfish to consider how humanity can work together?

People are afraid of change, yet change is inevitable, we live for an insignificant flash in time.

Regards Tony

Which people are afraid of change? Lots aren't. Some welcome it. But when nearly 200 years ago, an 'infallible' preacher comes along, and the people still think what he said is the absolute truth, then change is nigh impossible. When will the UHJ allow women? That's an excellent example of positive change. Will it happen? Not likely.

Please speak for yourself, and avoid projecting your sense of the world by using 'people' instead of the correct 'I'.

Lots of religions provide a lot of resistance to change.

 

[ChristineM]

Thus my statement of being bound by old world order thoughts and actions.

The UN needs to be given enforcement powers over National self interests.

A good example in the news now. No Nation can invade another Nation, all National boarders need to be set by the UN and enforced by the UN.

Regards Tony

The un is not and will never be a world dictatorship

 

[ChristineM]

This is a but a gross misunderstanding of the OP.

It has absolutly naught to do about religious dictatorships.

Regards Tony

I believe otherwise.

 

[Vinayaka]

I believe otherwise.

As do I. But you probably knew that.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

The un is not and will never be a world dictatorship

Who said it would be a dictatorship?

Regards Tony

 

[ChristineM]

This is a but a gross misunderstanding of the OP.

It has absolutly naught to do about religious dictatorships.

Regards Tony

The very first word of the op is "God"
The premise of the op is to have all mankind under the dictatorship of god (your god)

Please do not tell me this has nothing to do with religious dictatorships

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I believe otherwise.

As do I. But you probably knew that.

Then you are both wrong in assuming that, and the discussion has not been based on the oneness offered in the OP.

Regards Tony

 

[ChristineM]

Who said it would be a dictatorship?

Regards Tony

You did
"The UN needs to be given enforcement powers over National self interests."

 

[TransmutingSoul]

The very first word of the op is "God"
The premise of the op is to have all mankind under the dictatorship of god (your god)

Please do not tell me this has nothing to do with religious dictatorships

That is just an interpretation you have Imposed into the discussion from the fist two words, the rest of the OP needs ro be read.

The Oneness of humanity requires a unity in our diversity.

Those of Faith can choose to see that Oneness reflected from God, those without faith can choose to see it reflected from virtues.

Regards Tony

 

[ChristineM]

Then you are both wrong in assuming that, and the discussion has not been based on the oneness offered in the OP.

Regards Tony

Tony, i have known of your posts for 4 or 5 years,. I don't think i have ever seen you create a thread that was not in some way tied in to Baha'i. And i see this as no different.