Only atheists

[LuisDantas]

I think religion has a way of poisoning you, and then offering a cure.

Most of this fear of death actually comes from religion. I used to be very afraid of death and lack of meaning when I was religious.

It only went away when I let go of it. If you aren't as afraid of death, you don't need a mythological story to make you feel better.

I see what you mean. But I think those creeds you speak of do not deserve to be called religions at all.

 

[Altfish]

"Dukh Mein Simran Sab Kare, Sukh Mein Kare Na Koy;
Jo Sukh Mein Simran Kare, Tau Dukh Kahe Ko Hoye."

In anguish everyone prays to Him, in joy does none;
To One who prays in happiness, how can sorrow come.

A famous verse by Kabir Das, a 15th Century saint of India. It is comforting for most people to think of God helping them, but I am an atheist.

Kabir also said: "Saints I see the world is mad. If I tell the truth they rush to beat me, if I lie they trust me."

Well, I tried praying to The Flying Spaghetti Monster and he just sent beer.
No, I don't pray in bad situations, I try to work out how to improve things. I will call friends and colleagues.

 

[Fisher]

Hi
العنكبوت
فَإِذَا رَكِبُوا فِي الْفُلْكِ دَعَوُا اللَّهَ مُخْلِصِينَ لَهُ الدِّينَ فَلَمَّا نَجَّاهُمْ إِلَى الْبَرِّ إِذَا هُمْ يُشْرِكُونَ
And when they board a ship, they supplicate Allah, sincere to Him in religion. But when He delivers them to the land, at once they associate others with Him (65)


Have u ever had this experience in your life? Both positive and negative answers are appreciated.

Note: ship here means dire situation


Thanks in advance

Hi,
I hope i understood what you posted there. This is what i mostly do if i encounter a dire situation. I imagine it from the eyes of another. And the result is always the same: Its not right if i lament in respect there are others who don't.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Well, I tried praying to The Flying Spaghetti Monster and he just sent beer.

see, here is the proof. Flying Spaghetti Monster answered your prayers. I too will pray to him today.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Hi
العنكبوت
فَإِذَا رَكِبُوا فِي الْفُلْكِ دَعَوُا اللَّهَ مُخْلِصِينَ لَهُ الدِّينَ فَلَمَّا نَجَّاهُمْ إِلَى الْبَرِّ إِذَا هُمْ يُشْرِكُونَ
And when they board a ship, they supplicate Allah, sincere to Him in religion. But when He delivers them to the land, at once they associate others with Him (65)


Have u ever had this experience in your life? Both positive and negative answers are appreciated.

Note: ship here means dire situation


Thanks in advance

The few times my life has been in danger, I was focused on not dying. God didn't even enter my mind.

 

[jonathan180iq]

Hi
العنكبوت
فَإِذَا رَكِبُوا فِي الْفُلْكِ دَعَوُا اللَّهَ مُخْلِصِينَ لَهُ الدِّينَ فَلَمَّا نَجَّاهُمْ إِلَى الْبَرِّ إِذَا هُمْ يُشْرِكُونَ
And when they board a ship, they supplicate Allah, sincere to Him in religion. But when He delivers them to the land, at once they associate others with Him (65)


Have u ever had this experience in your life? Both positive and negative answers are appreciated.

Note: ship here means dire situation


Thanks in advance

Your citation is a critique of the pious, not the unbeliever...

How many faithful Muslims/Christians/Jews pray to God for help and guidance in their moment of weakness only to turn away from that needy faith when they are out of harms way?

That's what your quote is about - it has nothing to do with us atheists.

To answer your question, however - yes. Of course I've wished to something outside of myself to deliver me from situations that I had no control over. I think that's human nature - and I think that's where our ideas of an imaginary deity come from. From our infancy we are conditioned to expect some other, bigger, person to come into our lives in our moments of needs and rectify the wrongs or ails that befall us. Part of adulthood, however, is learning how to become that other, bigger, person so that you can take care of yourself and others.

"There are no absolutes, no big wheels in the sky. You don't have to be first, you just gotta somehow get by."

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

What would a pray out of desperation even show? Is it really much different from just wishing to survive?

It shows that some people will reach for any hope - even irrational hope - if they're desperate enough.

Starving people will sometimes eat dirt out of desperation or just to ease the pain in their bellies. We don't take this as a sign that people "know" deep down that they should be eating dirt.

The message of the OP - and "no atheists in foxholes" messages generally - is monstrous.

 

[interminable]

Now at the young age of 60, I have been in dire situations in my life. You have to understand that it simply would not occur to me to "hope to god" to come to my aid. It, literally, would not enter my mind. As others have said, my first thoughts would be "how do I get myself out of this situation". If, in the case you mentioned, in an aircraft that was in difficulty, I'd simply hope for the best but plan for the worst. Again, thoughts of god, would not enter my brain. I've gone too far beyond that kind of weak thinking to even look back wistfully.

U mean u weren't at all in your life even for a short time a beliver I mean believing in supernatural matter?

 

[interminable]

Oh, good....you already said it for me.

So u weren't believer in transcendent power in your life at all?

 

[YmirGF]

U mean u weren't at all in your life even for a short time a beliver I mean believing in supernatural matter?

For a short period in my life, about 21 - 26 or so, I was enthralled with Krsna. It's not that I stopped believing in Krsna, but rather, that I simply moved beyond the need to believe. I simply changed the framework of my understanding and all god concepts dissolved as a result.

 

[interminable]

I don't think I have ever met (and I have certainly not been) such a person.

What you describe does not seem to be an atheist at all, in any case.

By my understanding of what Muslims and the Qur'an usually describe as "associating others with God" it seems to be a verse that disapproves of polytheism, not atheism.

There is a saying about atheists in foxholes that may be closer to what you mean to ask. And it is very much a fantasy spread by people who do not understand atheism or do not want to extend due respect to it.

Military Association of Atheists & Freethinkers

Atheists In Foxholes - Freedom From Religion Foundation

There are no atheists in foxholes - Wikipedia

Although I haven't read those links but please notice that in the time of prophet muhammad pbuh maybe there wasn't any atheists or at least very very rare . Most were polytheists and some monotheists.
But I wanna say something else
Maybe atheists deny divine gods or any god but I know some of them believe in something that created this universe although they don't call it god. For example they say he or it or she created this world but it wasn't like that from the beginning , evolution changed everything and stuff like this.

So I wanted to examine their deep sense of supreme power

 

[Revoltingest]

So u weren't believer in transcendent power in your life at all?

Not even once.
Never an inkling.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

This is an interesting topic and I think it gets at the heart of some of the reason believers end up believers.

Of course, this may just be a stretch, but, as youth we're more impressionable, the world can at once be much more magical and much more frightening (Remember the first time you were lost? Or the moment you graduated high-school or were in college wondering what the hell you were doing or going to do?). And each of us gets a different take on life - a different "roll of the dice" so to speak. Some of us get mediocre, bad, or detrimental circumstances to be fostered in.

I feel that, perhaps, some people are more prone to believe because they saw hardship during a peak/pivotal time in their earlier (not necessarily childhood) development - and they felt the need to reach out to something for help "correcting" the things that were causing them grief - as a kid, how many of us knew how to go about solving our own problems? And there were probably people around them who were informing them what that "something" they could turn to was - God, for instance.

Taking myself as an example - I don't really feel I had such detriment. My home life was always good to great, my parents loving and understanding - the worst I had it was being bullied at school from time to time. So I feel I had the time to reason things out for myself, never felt the need to turn to anything external because I never felt I had the really big problems that needed solving for me. By the time I had those sorts of problems I had had enough time to learn how to deal with them myself, or who I could REALLY turn to within the sphere of my life and livelihood to help me solve them.

 

[YmirGF]

This is an interesting topic and I think it gets at the heart of some of the reason believers end up believers.

Of course, this may just be a stretch, but, as youth we're more impressionable, the world can at once be much more magical and much more frightening (Remember the first time you were lost? Or the moment you graduated high-school or were in college wondering what the hell you were doing or going to do?). And each of us gets a different take on life - a different "roll of the dice" so to speak. Some of us get mediocre, bad, or detrimental circumstances to be fostered in.

I feel that, perhaps, some people are more prone to believe because they saw hardship during a peak/pivotal time in their earlier (not necessarily childhood) development - and they felt the need to reach out to something for help "correcting" the things that were causing them grief - as a kid, how many of us knew how to go about solving our own problems? And there were probably people around them who were informing them what that "something" they could turn to was - God, for instance.

Taking myself as an example - I don't really feel I had such detriment. My home life was always good to great, my parents loving and understanding - the worst I had it was being bullied at school from time to time. So I feel I had the time to reason things out for myself, never felt the need to turn to anything external because I never felt I had the really big problems that needed solving for me. By the time I had those sorts of problems I had had enough time to learn how to deal with them myself, or who I could REALLY turn to within the sphere of my life and livelihood to help me solve them.

What an excellent response. Very well said, @A Vestigial Mote

 

[Underhill]

Hi
العنكبوت
فَإِذَا رَكِبُوا فِي الْفُلْكِ دَعَوُا اللَّهَ مُخْلِصِينَ لَهُ الدِّينَ فَلَمَّا نَجَّاهُمْ إِلَى الْبَرِّ إِذَا هُمْ يُشْرِكُونَ
And when they board a ship, they supplicate Allah, sincere to Him in religion. But when He delivers them to the land, at once they associate others with Him (65)


Have u ever had this experience in your life? Both positive and negative answers are appreciated.

Note: ship here means dire situation

Thanks in advance

It's all about who you thank. You say god delivers you, I say the ship captain did a good job. I think thanking god virtually always takes credit from those who really deserve it.

Growing up my parents used to always say I should thank god for the opportunities I've been given. But how is that fair to my parents, their parents or all the people over the years who have worked to make my world what it is?

I think most people like the comfort the notion of god gives. I understand that. But I think there is also a cost associated with that faith. The pious give god the glory and undermine true accomplishment.

 

[interminable]

This used to be a similar situation to me, yes. However, I have since become less two-faced. I've stopped being so frightful as to pray to something that I do not believe in, if that makes sense. When I had just de-converted I had been going through some bad compulsive thoughts, fears, and paranoia. Since then it's calmed down, but back then it was really problematic on a day-to-day basis. I used to be very frightened of the thoughts and feelings, so I would start praying to God to reveal himself, and that if he did, and if he helped me, I would worship him like no other. I didn't get any responses. Since then I've accepted to myself that it isn't very probable that the Abrahamic God exists. But that's just me.

Something that at least is accepted by monotheists is that God is immaterial so how could he show himself to u?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Something that at least is accepted by monotheists is that God is immaterial so how could he show himself to u?

I don't think that's "accepted by monotheists." Some, maybe. Definitely not all.

And even the ones who say that God is "immaterial" still usually say that he's more than capable of doing things that affect the material world.

 

[interminable]

I've had this sense a few times. I have thought about whether there is something going on that is "more than" just coincidence. I think that best describes the passage because its about different ways of seeing and whether it is "allah" or "others".

I used to pray when I was a kid as I was introduced to the idea of the christian god at primary school. I would have been 4-6 years old. To the best of my knowledge god did not respond but it just helped. I was extremely lonely and had no real freinds I could talk or relate to and talking to god was how I coped. I prayed for a best freind and none came. That was how I stopped "believing" and how I became an atheist. It wasn't intellectual, it was just a kid who was lonely and took out his disapointment and hurt for a promise that wasn't fulfilled. I don't think a god could punish me for being an atheist for that even if I was wrong. Its too innocent.

I have prayed on and off since becoming an atheist. Sometimes its just to let off steam and is half in jest. The last time I really meant it was in 2013 when my bisexual crush took a job in the defence industry selling weapons and it was the moment I tried to intervene to stop him also became the same time I came out of the closet and told him I was bi. It was Unbearably messy to put it mildly. He chose a job selling weapons and effectively killing people over me and that tested all my coping mechanisms to their limits. Praying for his saftey was what I had left because nothing could be done. I sacrificed everything I had emotionally for this guy and he never understood just how much he meant to me. That part of me from being a five year old walking round the school playground talking to himself in my lunch break because I had no one to play with never really went away and here was the first time that longing for freindship could truly be answered but wasn't. I know from other sources that this guy did change his mind about the job but we haven't spoken since and I don't expect I will ever hear from him again.

Thats pretty much my relationship with "god" in a nutshell and its been almost exclusively as a coping mechanism for loneliness.

When u prayed who was your addressee???

 

[interminable]

I don't think that's "accepted by monotheists." Some, maybe. Definitely not all.

And even the ones who say that God is "immaterial" still usually say that he's more than capable of doing things that affect the material world.

Yes the most

 

[Kirran]

Most monotheists do believe God can appear them in form, and I'd say an even greater proportion think that one can experience God's presence in a formless manner.