Only the 'saved' will get into heaven!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[LightofTruth]

Bully for you!

it's not for everyone.

 

[JJ50]

I can only speak from what psychologists and social workers say.
Mine argued too - but we didn't live in single-parent poverty without
a father figure.

Listening to one's parents rowing is not pleasant especially when it was usually my sisters and I who got the blame. My mother had a row with my father when he was on his deathbed, even though she knew he only had hours left to live! So much for 'born again' Christians!

 

[Aupmanyav]

Let me ask you this, "what's the difference between someone who believes that slavery, owning another human being as property, is ok and someone who believes that there's nothing wrong with slavery?"

I do not respect their beliefs, but there is not much that can be done about it. We have to live with them. Salix is much milder than myself.

I do question what the authors of Scripture wrote. And I find the answers in the same Scripture.

That is

Circular Reasoning

 

[Aupmanyav]

Why would God make humans a perfect copy? Can Perfection not make something imperfect?

My journey back to this Perfection means I suffer little in this transient illusory world, knowing what my goal ultimately will be .. not so dissimilar to your view I believe!

I don't have any particular goal other than doing my duty (dharma) while I am alive and have a little fun. After my death, I will merge into the environment. But tell me, for what reason your God made imperfect copies so that they all suffer in the world? Is that not sadistic?

Listening to one's parents rowing is not pleasant especially when it was usually my sisters and I who got the blame. My mother had a row with my father when he was on his deathbed, even though she knew he only had hours left to live! So much for 'born again' Christians!

Sad, but divorces bring their own problems. In India, the general concept is to continue for the sake of children. What is the guarantee that the next marriage will have no problems?

 

[dybmh]

while I am alive and have a little fun

But tell me, for what reason your God made imperfect copies so that they all suffer in the world? Is that not sadistic?

Life isn't all suffering. It can be fun. As you stated above.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Yeah, I agree wholly with that (if one is fortunate), otherwise it may be hell here itself. Probability, Chance, Uncertainties of life.

 

[Lionel Refson]

I don't have any particular goal other than doing my duty (dharma) while I am alive and have a little fun. After my death, I will merge into the environment. But tell me, for what reason your God made imperfect copies so that they all suffer in the world? Is that not sadistic?

Everything suffers in this world. the apple suffered when it was taken from the tree. The tree suffered when it lost the apple. Adam and Eve knew suffering when they took the apple Why? because all life is suffering and this life, a life of illusions, is suffering. When we die we rejoin that which made us and suffer no more. God knew that humanity has to suffer (because we wanted and received freewill and self-awareness) so as to be able to appreciate bliss in death/heaven etc

Why did God make us go through this course, because we chose it. Why did God give us the choice? Because there can only be ONE Perfection. .Was a Perfect God insecure? (anticipating your next point possibly) No, but there can still only be ONE..

I haven't thought this next bit through because I have never sought to question God but I imagine this... Before we ate of the apple of the knowledge of good and evil we were immortal as we were eating the fruit of the tree of life.(only one tree was forbidden). To have self-awareness and freewill and be immortal would mean that we would become as God (even if it took us millions of years to understand everything and become Perfect ourselves) and that was not why God made us.We chose self-awareness and freewill, we lost immortality and gained suffering until we die and return.

 

[1213]

Have you read the Bible? The deeds attributed to the god character are evil.

You seem to have different definition for the word evil than what I have. I don’t think God has done anything evil.

 

[Maximilian]

Actually different parts of the scripture teach different things, that is the reason why different sects teach different things, because they emphasise different parts of the Bible.

What concrete examples of this can you offer?

 

[danieldemol]

What concrete examples of this can you offer?

Ecclesiastes 9:5-6 denies the resurrection, Daniel preaches it, and In Luke Luke 23, one of the thieves crucified next to Jesus says, “‘Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.’ Jesus answered him, ‘I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise’” (verses 42-43) which evidently point to heaven being a spiritual reality.

 

[Maximilian]

Ecclesiastes 9:5-6 denies the resurrection, Daniel preaches it, and In Luke Luke 23, one of the thieves crucified next to Jesus says, “‘Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.’ Jesus answered him, ‘I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise’” (verses 42-43) which evidently point to heaven being a spiritual reality.

It appears you are confused. Ecclesiastes 9:5, 6 only speaks to the condition of all who are dead while other scriptures speak to the resurrection hope. See Isaiah 26:19; John 5:28, 19; Acts 24:15; Matthew 22:31, 32; Luke 14:13, 14; John 11:25; Hebrews 11:35; Revelation 20:12.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Everything suffers in this world.
Why did God make us go through this course, because we chose it.

That tells very highly of your God.
We did not choose anything. The apple, the snake, the physiology of Adam and Eve and the tree of knowledge were all created by God and he conveniently slipped out for some time. We were framed. Did the your omniscient God not know what was going to happen?

I don’t think God has done anything evil.

Yes. It seems (to believers) that he has not.

 

[Unguru]

That tells very highly of your God.

Why would you assume that? it seems a little ridiculous to hear coming from an atheist

 

[Aupmanyav]

Yeah, that tell very highly of their loving God who created a world where everything suffers.

 

[PruePhillip]

Listening to one's parents rowing is not pleasant especially when it was usually my sisters and I who got the blame. My mother had a row with my father when he was on his deathbed, even though she knew he only had hours left to live! So much for 'born again' Christians!

Don't judge Christianity by those who breach its most basic principles.

 

[danieldemol]

It appears you are confused. Ecclesiastes 9:5, 6 only speaks to the condition of all who are dead while other scriptures speak to the resurrection hope

To the contrary it appears you are confused, Ecclesiastes 9:5-6 from the Jehovah’s Witness Bible says;

For the living know* that they will die,+ but the dead know nothing at all,+ nor do they have any more reward,*because all memory of them is forgotten.+6 Also, their love and their hate and their jealousy have already perished, and they no longer have any share in what is done under the sun.

If they were to be resurrected they would have more reward and they would still have a share in what is done under the sun (ie on earth according to the JW definition of resurrection).


Your quotation of other scriptures is non-relevant because they are different authors written in different time periods.

 

[MonkeyFire]

believe that if you ask the long dead Jesus to come into you heart you will get into heaven, and everyone else, however good or decent, will end up in the fires of hell.

Exactly. How else would you explain suffering, and hatred. Even violence can just be moral then ne totally aweful. But, angels like pleasure and YHWH forbids "good and evil."

 

[JJ50]

You seem to have different definition for the word evil than what I have. I don’t think God has done anything evil.

You seem to have different definition for the word evil than what I have. I don’t think God has done anything evil.

The definition of evil which I think applies to the god character, profoundly immoral and wicked. synonyms: wicked, bad, wrong, morally wrong, wrongful, immoral, sinful, ungodly, unholy, foul, vile, base, ignoble, dishonourable, corrupt, iniquitous, depraved, degenerate, villainous, nefarious, sinister, vicious, malicious, malevolent, demonic, devilish, diabolic, diabolical, fiendish, dark, black-hearted;

Only an entity with those characteristics would be sick enough to flood a whole planet, killing nearly all humans and animals!

 

[JJ50]

Don't judge Christianity by those who breach its most basic principles.

Not all Christians are bad, my own three girls are very moderate in their take on the faith, but I still think it would be no loss to the world if that and all other religions where done away with.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Do you believe there are no negative effects at all from this, which people need to process in their lives in order to heal from them? Some even through professional counseling? Is this what you are suggesting?

Not at all. In my experience, people indoctrinate others, not out of cruelty, but because of their own indoctrination. Should those who wish to or have overcome such indoctrination condemn those that have been indoctrinated themselves and choose to live in accordance with what they've been told be believe and believe they have no other choice?