Original Sin

[Thief]

My comment was to the mental state of "God"...rather (The men who wrote the scriptures)....What people do with the book is written in history.

I did a thread about God being insane....shall I resurrect?

And what people do with the book is everyday stuff.
Here we are.

 

[dawny0826]

Here is something that bugs me and I would like to discuss. It seems that Christianity (perhaps other religions also, I am unsure) teaches that we are born with "original sin", which is inherited because of Adam and Eve's sin in the Garden of Eden. WE are held responsible for the sins of SOMEONE ELSE. I cannot see how this belief makes sense.

First, if god is loving and forgiving, why would he hold an everlasting grudge against humans? If it is so that we must accept Christ, it seems kind of like a set up...

Second, why should we even be held responsible for the sins of another in general? Nobody is responsible for the sins of another in any other case outside of this one. Why is this one held against all of humanity? Again, it seems like a set up.

Discuss

Original sin to me is a non issue as every individual is imperfect and capable of wrong doing. Who cares where sin originated? An individual should be held responsible for their own actions.

Are we not held responsible for our own actions, religion/spirituality aside?

 

[waitasec]

No......

no means yes?

 

[riley2112]

Original sin to me is a non issue as every individual is imperfect and capable of wrong doing. Who cares where sin originated? An individual should be held responsible for their own actions.

Are we not held responsible for our own actions, religion/spirituality aside?

There are many stories about the original sin. So just take a guess at which one is correct and hope you are right. And please understand that I am not trying to be rude, that is just the truth.

 

[waitasec]

There are many stories about the original sin. So just take a guess at which one is correct and hope you are right. And please understand that I am not trying to be rude, that is just the truth.

does it really matter if you're right or wrong?
if it does... "we're doomed" ~3CPO

 

[riley2112]

does it really matter if you're right or wrong?
if it does... "we're doomed" ~3CPO

Well I guess that it may not matter. I mean god is either all for given or not. I guess we will see. but it makes me feel good inside. What makes you feel good inside? besides being just a great kinda guy.

 

[waitasec]

Well I guess that it may not matter. I mean god is either all for given or not. I guess we will see. but it makes me feel good inside. What makes you feel good inside? besides being just a great kinda guy.

connection and flow.

 

[riley2112]

Original sin to me is a non issue as every individual is imperfect and capable of wrong doing. Who cares where sin originated? An individual should be held responsible for their own actions.

Are we not held responsible for our own actions, religion/spirituality aside?

The biblical creation stories were interpreted as having put women in a permanent state of submission to men, by way of punishment.
The Latin Fathers of the Church held women responsible for bringing original sin into the world, and for being a continuing source of seduction.
You could ask 5 different people and more than likely you will get 5 different answers. Kinda makes you think huh?

 

[InChrist]

There's no difference. The presence of that sinful nature is a direct punishment for Adam and Eve's transgression. You are simply rewording it to avoid this obvious problem. Because you recognize it, and realize it's actually unjust.

We would not have the propensity to sin, were it not for this punishment.

Actually, according to the scriptures the consequence or punishment for sin is death. Sin is not a punishment, sin is the action that requires a punishment.

For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6;23

 

[Heathen Hammer]

Actually, according to the scriptures the consequence or punishment for sin is death. Sin is not a punishment, sin is the action that requires a punishment.

The 'propensity for sin' being passed down is the punishment. Go back one step in the process.

 

[Thief]

I say the everyday confusion wraps around denial.

It's not punishment.

The garden event was intended to alter the course of Man.
If you want to call the tree of knowledge a 'test'...fine.
But it's obvious enough....what God wanted to be sure of ....
Man needs to be such a creature as to acquire knowledge...
even when death is told be consequence.

A lesser form of spirit is unlikely to 'crossover'.

The garden event appears as punishment as the first couple are evicted.
The garden, however, was no more than a petri dish.
It had served it's purpose.
With the garden denied to Man, it would look like a step down.
It would look like punishment.

And to this day, people speak of it...and even sing about it...
'....and we've got to get ourselves...back to the garden...'

 

[waitasec]

The garden event was intended to alter the course of Man.
'

how was it intended on the condition that the tree was forbidden?

 

[idav]

how was it intended on the condition that the tree was forbidden?

If it were forbidden then it should have been booby trapped or something. Maybe even not planting the forbidden tree in the garden in the first place.

 

[waitasec]

If it were forbidden then it should have been booby trapped or something.

you mean some sort of a security system to sound off an alarm?

Maybe even not planting the forbidden tree in the garden in the first place.

what we have to reconcile, if taken this account literally, is that we have acquired knowledge and we all die...however, imo good and evil are subjective terms so really there is no absolute knowledge of good and evil so then we are still living in la la land...yet we die.

 

[idav]

you mean some sort of a security system to sound off an alarm?

Like a net or something.

what we have to reconcile, if taken this account literally, is that we have acquired knowledge and we all die...however, imo good and evil are subjective terms so really there is no absolute knowledge of good and evil so then we are still living in la la land...yet we die.

Well there are these chimps I've seen on youtube where some gang tries to invade some territory and the other gang had to drive them out. The winning group kidnapped one of the opponents young and proceded to eat the baby in front of the the losers. Now I know this sounds a lot like humans but whether there is such thing as good and evil hopefully we have the wisdom to move beyond that sort of nonsense. Our ability to analyze out situation to come to "better" solutions was a very important step in the development of humans.

 

[Thief]

how was it intended on the condition that the tree was forbidden?

And obviously you did not read ALL of post#431.

 

[waitasec]

And obviously you did not read ALL of post#431.

i did...
how was it intended on the condition that the tree was forbidden?

why not create man with knowledge?

death wasn't a consequence, hence the tree of life...they were "created" as mortal beings, other wise why provide the tree of life and not make man immortal?



your tripe was noted.

 

[waitasec]

Like a net or something.

Well there are these chimps I've seen on youtube where some gang tries to invade some territory and the other gang had to drive them out. The winning group kidnapped one of the opponents young and proceded to eat the baby in front of the the losers. Now I know this sounds a lot like humans but whether there is such thing as good and evil hopefully we have the wisdom to move beyond that sort of nonsense. Our ability to analyze out situation to come to "better" solutions was a very important step in the development of humans.

not every situation is the same.

 

[Thief]

i did...
how was it intended on the condition that the tree was forbidden?

why not create man with knowledge?

death wasn't a consequence, hence the tree of life...they were "created" as mortal beings, other wise why provide the tree of life and not make man immortal?



your tripe was noted.

And your round about is yet another crutch.
You could try reading my tripe with a more discerning approach....
and better rebuttal techniques.

 

[waitasec]

And your round about is yet another crutch.
You could try reading my tripe with a more discerning approach....
and better rebuttal techniques.

i guess these questions are too difficult for you to deal with..

how was it intended on the condition that the tree was forbidden?

why not create man with knowledge?

death wasn't a consequence, hence the tree of life...they were "created" as mortal beings, other wise why provide the tree of life and not make man immortal?

:sorry1: