Original Sin

[Thief]

i guess these questions are too difficult for you to deal with..


:sorry1:

Back to #431

 

[waitasec]

Back to #431

back to 440

 

[Thief]

back to 440

And around and around we go.....

 

[waitasec]

And around and around we go.....

i already did my part...
it is you who wants to go in circles.

 

[connermt]

Here is something that bugs me and I would like to discuss. It seems that Christianity (perhaps other religions also, I am unsure) teaches that we are born with "original sin", which is inherited because of Adam and Eve's sin in the Garden of Eden. WE are held responsible for the sins of SOMEONE ELSE. I cannot see how this belief makes sense.

First, if god is loving and forgiving, why would he hold an everlasting grudge against humans? If it is so that we must accept Christ, it seems kind of like a set up...

Second, why should we even be held responsible for the sins of another in general? Nobody is responsible for the sins of another in any other case outside of this one. Why is this one held against all of humanity? Again, it seems like a set up.

Discuss

"Original sin" is somewhat contradictory to what’s taught in many parts of Christianity and/or read out of the bible. IMO, the concept of "original sin" is nothing more than an attempt to encompass all humanity in guilt which will, hopefully, lead to 'the church". More church members mean more power, influence, control and money.
That’s the only legitimate reason that makes even remote sense.
A loving god creates humanity knowing it would fall into sin (he allowed the temptation to begin with), the allows the growing human population answer for a sinful nature?
What happened to noah’s family? If god killed off everyone after noah because only noah’s family found favor with god, wouldn’t that have been the end of original sin? Or was noah’s family just “ok enough” to appease god while the rest of the population wasn’t?
Sidestepping the noah issue, we’re expected to believe that god was so upset about the state of his human creation that he had to send his son/self/son/self/blahblahblah to die (though only for a couple of days) as a sacrifice?
Of course we can’t know the underlying reasoning of god, being he’s so grand and such. If that’s so, how are we suppose to know/understand enough about him and what he wants to be able to make it to heaven at all?
Oh yes, the “holy spirit” gives us just enough knowledge to let us understand. But why just enough? What’s god hiding that he doesn’t want us to know? He did say not to eat from the tree of knowledge (even though he put it there knowing humanity would eat of it because he allowed the devil to tempt humanity),
It’s circular reasoning that only benefits the church.
Come on now people! Think for yourselves for a while. The christian story makes no good sense

 

[riley2112]

"Original sin" is somewhat contradictory to what’s taught in many parts of Christianity and/or read out of the bible. IMO, the concept of "original sin" is nothing more than an attempt to encompass all humanity in guilt which will, hopefully, lead to 'the church". More church members mean more power, influence, control and money.
That’s the only legitimate reason that makes even remote sense.
A loving god creates humanity knowing it would fall into sin (he allowed the temptation to begin with), the allows the growing human population answer for a sinful nature?
What happened to noah’s family? If god killed off everyone after noah because only noah’s family found favor with god, wouldn’t that have been the end of original sin? Or was noah’s family just “ok enough” to appease god while the rest of the population wasn’t?
Sidestepping the noah issue, we’re expected to believe that god was so upset about the state of his human creation that he had to send his son/self/son/self/blahblahblah to die (though only for a couple of days) as a sacrifice?
Of course we can’t know the underlying reasoning of god, being he’s so grand and such. If that’s so, how are we suppose to know/understand enough about him and what he wants to be able to make it to heaven at all?
Oh yes, the “holy spirit” gives us just enough knowledge to let us understand. But why just enough? What’s god hiding that he doesn’t want us to know? He did say not to eat from the tree of knowledge (even though he put it there knowing humanity would eat of it because he allowed the devil to tempt humanity),
It’s circular reasoning that only benefits the church.
Come on now people! Think for yourselves for a while. The christian story makes no good sense

So, what you are saying is you do not agree with the way God does things. Is that about it? Just wondering.

 

[Heathen Hammer]

It simply sounds like he's agreeing that the Eden story makes no real sense.

I don't see what's wrong with disagreeing with someone who victimizes others via a blatant set-up.

 

[Thief]

It simply sounds like he's agreeing that the Eden story makes no real sense.

I don't see what's wrong with disagreeing with someone who victimizes others via a blatant set-up.

The Garden event makes perfect sense...keep trying.

And to disagree with God?....makes better sense?
(stacked deck)

 

[Heathen Hammer]

It makes no sense, keep trying

Got other Gods, they make sense

 

[waitasec]

The Garden event makes perfect sense...keep trying.

And to disagree with God?....makes better sense?
(stacked deck)

it depends on how someone defines god...

 

[Dirty Penguin]

The Garden event makes perfect sense.

Biology has already given us the answer to to the diversification of human and non-human primates on the planet so the story of the Garden of Eden makes no sense unless you are prepared to suspend all logic.

 

[idav]

Biology has already given us the answer to to the diversification of human and non-human primates on the planet so the story of the Garden of Eden makes no sense unless you are prepared to suspend all logic.

No need for that. Here is adam and eve.

 

[waitasec]

:biglaugh: :danana: :woohoo:

 

[Dirty Penguin]

No need for that. Here is adam and eve.

Ehmmmm....hot monkey luv.....:drool:

 

[Thief]

Biology has already given us the answer to to the diversification of human and non-human primates on the planet so the story of the Garden of Eden makes no sense unless you are prepared to suspend all logic.

Nay...unless you have found that missing link.

Or that rib that God used to clone a mate for Adam.

 

[idav]

Nay...unless you have found that missing link.

Or that rib that God used to clone a mate for Adam.

What years do you feel are missing links? From which species to which species?

 

[idav]

Ehmmmm....hot monkey luv.....:drool:

How else do you get a different species?

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Nay...unless you have found that missing link.

There is no such thing....

Or that rib that God used to clone a mate for Adam.

There was no such taking of the rib or using male DNA to make a woman unless you believe we are both male and female. Now biologically I believe we are, and we have clear biological evidence of such, which is one of the reasons I'm all for gay/lesbian rights. Personally I think that if the bible teaches we are both male and female, genetically, then it its Condemnation of homosexuality is nullified.

 

[Thief]

There is no such thing....




There was no such taking of the rib or using male DNA to make a woman unless you believe we are both male and female. Now biologically I believe we are, and we have clear biological evidence of such, which is one of the reasons I'm all for gay/lesbian rights. Personally I think that if the bible teaches we are both male and female, genetically, then it its Condemnation of homosexuality is nullified.

None of this will take away Genesis.

We humans have long known a departure from the animal kingdom.
We don't know exactly when.

I find it remarkable the manner of Chapter Two as a display of a manipulation...with all the earmarks of a science experiment.

A sudden change in the course of Man?
Looks that way to me.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

None of this will take away Genesis.

Sure it does. The genesis myth is at odd to what we know scientifically. We have no testable evidence of an Adam and Eve. Most theologians and scholars regard the story as allegory. We know our Earth is a very, very old Earth, all life is related on a molecular level and humans are primates (related on a genetic level ancestrally)

We humans have long known a departure from the animal kingdom.
We don't know exactly when.

Wrong on both. Not only are we still animals but we know that about 6myo we split from our common ancestor.

I find it remarkable the manner of Chapter Two as a display of a manipulation...with all the earmarks of a science experiment.

If that is the case then you agree that humans are both male and female...correct?

A sudden change in the course of Man?
Looks that way to me.

Biblically yes...but in reality the change took millions of years and so far the evidence sides with science......