Original Sin

[Heathen Hammer]

Are you sure? The ordinary mind sees good and evil as separate and in opposition; that is the lot of ordinary man, which is ignorance; the enlightened mind sees them as one and in harmony. In other words, it sees into the nature of good and evil, rather than focusing on their Outcomes where the action of one is taken against the other. When one understands their nature, no action is required.

For one's eyes to be opened is to see into the true nature of things. That is Higher, or God Consciousness. It is the ''Forbidden Fruit" which is the free gift of Higher Consciousness to man.

"Resist not, evil"
Jesus

Except we're not talking about ordinary minds; we're talking about the first humans, created whole in adult bodies, but with no adult knowledge or culture, who were specifically denied knowing this dichotomy.

 

[Thief]

You're guessing. There is no indication he knew death.

Adam is a chosen son of God in my belief.
No cause to say he had never seen anything die.
No cause to say he was unaware of his own pending demise.

You're guessing again. You're scriptures don't give the impression there were humans before Adam. It hints to it about time you get to the story of Cain. Even that in of itself has it's problems if you're assuming Adam and his family was all brothers, sisters, cousins inbreeding.

Day six...Man as a species.

So?....In your scripture you're god did both....



Since Adam didn't seem to understand the consequences the story makes little sense. Your scriptures show he really had no understanding of (right or wrong).

When placed in the garden, he would have been as any other man.
According to the story it took several hundred years to change that.

No he didn't. He said if you eat the fruit your eyes will be open...knowing good and evil (Gen. 2:17).

"For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil."

Your god confirms this at (Gen. 3:22)

"And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil........"

This means they had no prior understanding of right and wrong.

Most animals will respond when the master tells them ...'no'.
That Adam and Eve had curiosity beyond obedience....
was the actual intent.

I don't see the acquisition of knowledge as a fall.
It was not a point of condemnation.

 

[Thief]

Great...so now are you prepared to answer my original question?

Is man both male and female?

This seems to be what your scripture is saying...

Man as a species...Day Six...male AND female....
Was that the quote your were hoping for?

 

[Heathen Hammer]

Most animals will respond when the master tells them ...'no'.
That Adam and Eve had curiosity beyond obedience....
was the actual intent.

I don't see the acquisition of knowledge as a fall.
It was not a point of condemnation.

Dogs don't understand 'no', they obey their alphas and fear the consequence of being bitten/hit which comes associated with the word 'no' from humans.

Since Adam and Eve ate the apple, they did not fear the consequences; it is logical to assume that is because they did not understand them/know what they were. The story confirms that idea.

 

[Looncall]

Why all this furor over something that no sane person would think actually happened?

 

[fishy]

Why all this furor over something that no sane person would think actually happened?

Cos' it's fun?

 

[Looncall]

Cos' it's fun?

Very good! Please carry on.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Man as a species...Day Six...male AND female....
Was that the quote your were hoping for?

Nope. I'm very familiar with what your scriptures say. I was trying to get what you believe. Do you believe the fact that your god took DNA from Adam to make a female that man, genetically, is both male and female?

 

[waitasec]

Why all this furor over something that no sane person would think actually happened?

the thing is, sane people do...
sane people can also be confused

 

[godnotgod]

Except we're not talking about ordinary minds; we're talking about the first humans, created whole in adult bodies, but with no adult knowledge or culture, who were specifically denied knowing this dichotomy.

No, we are not. We are talking about an ALLEGORY.

If you interpret the allegory as one in which Obedience to Law is the primary focus, then the moral lesson of Good and Evil would apply. But if you understand the allegory to mean the exact opposite of what God intends, it becomes clear that it contains an intuitive understanding of Good and Evil as Relative Opposites, and their behavior, which is the actual condition. The former view retains Obedience as the condition, while the latter actually transforms the ordinary mind into one whose vision is accurate. Besides, there was no real or viable REASON for God to have forbade the eating of the Fruit. A&E did not die, as God warned, after all. The key to the allegory is contained in the serpent's statement that A&E would 'see as God sees', which is Higher Consciousness.

 

[godnotgod]

Dogs don't understand 'no', they obey their alphas and fear the consequence of being bitten/hit which comes associated with the word 'no' from humans.

Since Adam and Eve ate the apple, they did not fear the consequences; it is logical to assume that is because they did not understand them/know what they were. The story confirms that idea.

heh..heh..heh...or that they saw the wink wink and twinkle in God's eye when He said 'No!'.

Sure, God.....sure...wink...wink...got'cha, God. :beach:

 

[suzimcq]

Death, while not a good thing, is probably better than living an endless life immersed in sin and its effects in this world.

It said in the Bible that we suffer death because of the original sin; forbidden knowledge. so if that sin had never been committed we would not be living eternaly in sin at all, but in blissful ignorance of anything right and wrong. so yes all humans must suffer now for the sins of the first two. and that knowledge was a sin because sin by definition is: An immoral act considered to be a transgression against divine law. and God told them not to gain the knowledge.

 

[Thief]

Dogs don't understand 'no', they obey their alphas and fear the consequence of being bitten/hit which comes associated with the word 'no' from humans.

Since Adam and Eve ate the apple, they did not fear the consequences; it is logical to assume that is because they did not understand them/know what they were. The story confirms that idea.

Obedience in fear is a good thing?

And are you not assuming that Adam and Eve did not fear?
Whether they did or not....
that they would go for the 'knowledge'...in spite of death...
indicates they might actually take on spiritual life.

And the tree of life was forbidden?....or simply out of reach?
Life after death would be the choice?

 

[Thief]

Nope. I'm very familiar with what your scriptures say. I was trying to get what you believe. Do you believe the fact that your god took DNA from Adam to make a female that man, genetically, is both male and female?

And you want to say Eve was both at the same time?
Wouldn't that be a stretch of the scripture you claim to know?

You seem to be harping on the question....
why not just say what is on your mind?

 

[Thief]

In other words, we are socially indoctrinated into morality. But before this, we are born into the world, fresh from the universe, understanding the game of Peek-A-Boo, the cosmic game of hide and seek. Perhaps it is this phenomenon which points to the idea that the universe is a play, rather than something to be taken seriously, in the moral sense, and it is this sense of play which we have forgotten, but which is crucial to our real happiness.

A play?...as in theatrics?
I won't say nay to that.

Seriously?....yes....of course.

Some types of recreation work well only when skillfully 'played'.

 

[Thief]

Why all this furor over something that no sane person would think actually happened?

I see you profess no religion.....neither do I.

As for sanity....
in the scheme of regression....Someone had to be first.
First in spirit...in mind and heart.

Then, to avoid being alone for all of eternity....
Someone had to be created....

The garden event did not happen?...of course it did.

 

[godnotgod]

A play?...as in theatrics?
I won't say nay to that.

Seriously?....yes....of course.

Some types of recreation work well only when skillfully 'played'.

Yes, except that the players have forgotten that the character they are acting out is only a character in a drama. They think they are real. And so the drama is taken seriously, with horrific consequences.

 

[godnotgod]

It said in the Bible that we suffer death because of the original sin; forbidden knowledge. so if that sin had never been committed we would not be living eternaly in sin at all, but in blissful ignorance of anything right and wrong. so yes all humans must suffer now for the sins of the first two. and that knowledge was a sin because sin by definition is: An immoral act considered to be a transgression against divine law. and God told them not to gain the knowledge.

So why, instead of placing an extremely dangerous and inviting Fruit tree right in man's path, which insures that everyone without exception will suffer death, God did not simply choose to exclude it? What is the point, if God loves us so much, and wants us to be with him, that he does exactly what prevents our union with him?

Seems that God, in his infinite love and wisdom, would have placed a Fruit which, when eaten, would open man's eyes so that he could see things as they really are, and know that God is always with him, in lieu of the fact that he stresses over God not being near.

 

[Thief]

Yes, except that the players have forgotten that the character they are acting out is only a character in a drama. They think they are real. And so the drama is taken seriously, with horrific consequences.

So long standing quotes such as....'life is a stage, and we are the players'
are suppose to be humorous at all times?
No place for tragedy, malady, grief, consequence.....

Sure...it would be great if life was all comedy.
But then again....

 

[suzimcq]

So why, instead of placing an extremely dangerous and inviting Fruit tree right in man's path, which insures that everyone without exception will suffer death, God did not simply choose to exclude it? What is the point, if God loves us so much, and wants us to be with him, that he does exactly what prevents our union with him?

Seems that God, in his infinite love and wisdom, would have placed a Fruit which, when eaten, would open man's eyes so that he could see things as they really are, and know that God is always with him, in lieu of the fact that he stresses over God not being near.

yes, the story was, no doubt influenced by the Greeks, were Prometheus gave fire to the people as a gift, and it angered Zeus, so he sent down Pandora as a "gift" to him. of course in that story humans were given knowledge by the titan, who's name means foresight, and in the Bible it demonizes the giver of knowledge. and in Greek religion there was a much more round about way for the gift to effect the world with all the bad things that reside in it. but they both produce the outcome of curiosity leading to distruction. and man's knowledge angering the Gods.