Original Sin

[waitasec]

Whether the word is used or not it is implicit as you clearly show....("do not eat")...means you have been forbidden to eat.

how does one interpret 'do not' in this context?

a. no boundary was set
b. an invitation to test the boundary (meaning the boundary was set)
c. a boundary was set


lets see here... :sarcastic

 

[idav]

how does one interpret 'do not' in this context?

a. no boundary was set
b. an invitation to test the boundary (meaning the boundary was set)
c. a boundary was set


lets see here... :sarcastic

Are boundaries good or evil?

 

[waitasec]

Are boundaries good or evil?

great question.

arbitrary boundaries that are in place for the purpose perpetuating ignorance are evil

boundaries that are in place for the purpose of knowledge are good.

 

[idav]

great question.

arbitrary boundaries that are in place for the purpose perpetuating ignorance are evil

boundaries that are in place for the purpose of knowledge are good.

So had they known about good and evil they still would have gone for knowledge. Not knowing about good and evil left them at quite a disadvantage. Almost like god was trying to hide truth from us.

 

[waitasec]

So had they known about good and evil they still would have gone for knowledge.

they had knowledge but were ignorant of good and evil.

Not knowing about good and evil left them at quite a disadvantage. Almost like god was trying to hide truth from us.

:yes:
that's what it looks like to me.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

So had they known about good and evil they still would have gone for knowledge. Not knowing about good and evil left them at quite a disadvantage.

They didn't know that they didn't know. Genesis, when "God" creates Adam, has him doing all sorts of things before he creates Eve. Why was even a need to put a tree in the garden? Adam seemed to be doing fine without it up until the point of Eve's creation. To me the whole story makes no sense.

Almost like god was trying to hide truth from us.

Yep, seems that way..which is why I say the only one that told them the truth was the "Serpent".

All of this is we believe any of this and if we take it literal.

 

[godnotgod]

I, God in the flesh, hereby command you, a naturally curious person who has never tasted strawberries, NOT to eat this scrumptious delicacy, under penalty of death! wink, wink...heh, heh...

(WTF? Am I fooling MYSELF...chuckle)

 

[godnotgod]

Ha ha...allow me to make the correction: 'Seeing is neither rational nor non-rational as it does not involve thought'.

 

[Thief]

Whether the word is used or not it is implicit as you clearly show....("do not eat")...means you have been forbidden to eat.



We don't get the sense that he did. He lacked knowledge as if he were a child. He didn't know good or evil and we have no indication he had ever witness death until after eating the "fruit".



Actually the "serpent" told Adam the truth.

Here then as you wrote.... is the problem.

When reading Genesis, draw the line between the metaphor and the literal.

Did Adam know of death?....likely so.
He was a chosen son of God. As such he may have been witness to his immediate surroundings and fellow humans.
No death among them?...most likely, yes.

Telling someone a consequence is one thing.
Telling someone a command is quite something else.
And considering spiritual death, when it 'sounds like' mortal warning....
is not the same thing.

The serpent lied.
Partaking of knowledge does not make us like God.
It is the wisdom that follows....afterward.

 

[fishy]

Here then as you wrote.... is the problem.

When reading Genesis, draw the line between the metaphor and the literal.

Did Adam know of death?....likely so.
He was a chosen son of God. As such he may have been witness to his immediate surroundings and fellow humans.
No death among them?...most likely, yes.

Telling someone a consequence is one thing.
Telling someone a command is quite something else.
And considering spiritual death, when it 'sounds like' mortal warning....
is not the same thing.

The serpent lied.
Partaking of knowledge does not make us like God.
It is the wisdom that follows....afterward.

Where did you find the extra people in eden?

 

[waitasec]

Telling someone a consequence is one thing.
Telling someone a command is quite something else.

you are right.
what i want to know is, how can one understand the command of not crossing the boundary if the knowledge of the boundary was unknown?

 

[idav]

you are right.
what i want to know is, how can one understand the command of not crossing the boundary if the knowledge of the boundary was unknown?

There would be no knowledge of it so they wouldn't know it god just didn't want them eating the fruit cause it would ruin the appetite or if the fruit was poisonous and would make them trip out or something.

BTW it is my theory it was a "magic" fruit.

 

[waitasec]

There would be no knowledge of it so they wouldn't know it god just didn't want them eating the fruit cause it would ruin the appetite or if the fruit was poisonous and would make them trip out or something.

BTW it is my theory it was a "magic" fruit.

maybe they were forbidden to eat mushrooms

 

[Thief]

you are right.
what i want to know is, how can one understand the command of not crossing the boundary if the knowledge of the boundary was unknown?

Indeed...
Knowledge of good and evil...something we grow up with.
"No"...is the first word children learn.

Does that keep the kiddies out of harm's way?
Do they still go looking for (whatever) trouble?

As if it was born into them to test themselves and what they can handle.
And some of them die doing so.

 

[Thief]

Where did you find the extra people in eden?

Day Six..Chapter One....male and female...
'Go forth be fruitful and multiply.'

They did.

No names, no restrictions, no garden....dominate all things.

Day Seven...rest...nothing more will be created.

THEN....Chapter Two... a story of manipulation.
It has all the earmarks of a science experiment.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Did Adam know of death?....likely so.

You're guessing. There is no indication he knew death.

He was a chosen son of God. As such he may have been witness to his immediate surroundings and fellow humans.

You're guessing again. You're scriptures don't give the impression there were humans before Adam. It hints to it about time you get to the story of Cain. Even that in of itself has it's problems if you're assuming Adam and his family was all brothers, sisters, cousins inbreeding.

Telling someone a consequence is one thing.
Telling someone a command is quite something else.

So?....In your scripture you're god did both....

And considering spiritual death, when it 'sounds like' mortal warning....
is not the same thing.

Since Adam didn't seem to understand the consequences the story makes little sense. Your scriptures show he really had no understanding of (right or wrong).

The serpent lied.
Partaking of knowledge does not make us like God.

No he didn't. He said if you eat the fruit your eyes will be open...knowing good and evil (Gen. 2:17).

"For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil."

Your god confirms this at (Gen. 3:22)

"And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil........"

This means they had no prior understanding of right and wrong.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

THEN....Chapter Two... a story of manipulation.
It has all the earmarks of a science experiment.

Great...so now are you prepared to answer my original question?

Is man both male and female?

This seems to be what your scripture is saying...

 

[waitasec]

Indeed...
Knowledge of good and evil...something we grow up with.
"No"...is the first word children learn.

Does that keep the kiddies out of harm's way?
Do they still go looking for (whatever) trouble?

As if it was born into them to test themselves and what they can handle.
And some of them die doing so.

as in the state of innocence everything is "yes"
doesn't make that good or evil...but it is being in the state of freedom.

 

[godnotgod]

You're guessing. There is no indication he knew death.



You're guessing again. You're scriptures don't give the impression there were humans before Adam. It hints to it about time you get to the story of Cain. Even that in of itself has it's problems if you're assuming Adam and his family was all brothers, sisters, cousins inbreeding.



So?....In your scripture you're god did both....



Since Adam didn't seem to understand the consequences the story makes little sense. Your scriptures show he really had no understanding of (right or wrong).



No he didn't. He said if you eat the fruit your eyes will be open...knowing good and evil (Gen. 2:17).

"For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil."

Your god confirms this at (Gen. 3:22)

"And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil........"

This means they had no prior understanding of right and wrong.

Are you sure? The ordinary mind sees good and evil as separate and in opposition; that is the lot of ordinary man, which is ignorance; the enlightened mind sees them as one and in harmony. In other words, it sees into the nature of good and evil, rather than focusing on their Outcomes where the action of one is taken against the other. When one understands their nature, no action is required.

For one's eyes to be opened is to see into the true nature of things. That is Higher, or God Consciousness. It is the ''Forbidden Fruit" which is the free gift of Higher Consciousness to man.

"Resist not, evil"
Jesus

 

[godnotgod]

Indeed...
Knowledge of good and evil...something we grow up with.
"No"...is the first word children learn.

Does that keep the kiddies out of harm's way?
Do they still go looking for (whatever) trouble?

As if it was born into them to test themselves and what they can handle.
And some of them die doing so.

In other words, we are socially indoctrinated into morality. But before this, we are born into the world, fresh from the universe, understanding the game of Peek-A-Boo, the cosmic game of hide and seek. Perhaps it is this phenomenon which points to the idea that the universe is a play, rather than something to be taken seriously, in the moral sense, and it is this sense of play which we have forgotten, but which is crucial to our real happiness.