Origins of the Quran/Islam - various academic perspectives

[use_your_brain]

No. I put forward other possible explanation, mind you I accept none, that you ignore since your presupposition does not allow such a possibility. You have been in indoctrinated to only make one conclusion only. Religion explains nothing about the universe since most are based on primitive writing about things they didn't understand at all. After all your book religion claims the sun sets in a pool of water.... Not mine.

and what does the science say about the birth of the universe? does it say something about the first matter that existed before the universe born? because religion states that God created the universe and expanded it till now.

 

[Shad]

and what does the science say about the birth of the universe? does it say something about the first matter that existed before the universe born? because religion states that God created the universe and expanded it till now.

It says nothing about it. Matter according to physics can not be created nor destroyed, it is eternal.

Religion states no such thing as it never mentions an expansion, it mentions stretched which is past tense thus contradicts physics.

 

[use_your_brain]

Then you agree that Muhammad never received any revelation from God, he was a conartist using religion to fool the gullible into following him for his personal advancement and benefit.

I do not think you understand what plagiarism is.

I didn't say so. He did receive the revelation from God.
tell me what plagiarism is, related to the religion/revelation/prophethood.

 

[use_your_brain]

It says nothing about it. Matter according to physics can not be created nor destroyed, it is eternal.

Religion states no such thing as it never mentions an expansion, it mentions stretched which is past tense thus contradicts physics.

you do mean energy. energy and material are different. matter is a physical material. do you mean material has no a beginning?

 

[Shad]

I didn't say so. He did receive the revelation from God.

As I thought you do not understand plagiarism. To hold to the idea that he plagiarized the "good things" shows that revelation was false

tell me what plagiarism is, related to the religion/revelation/prophethood.

Using the works of others but claiming you are the author of it to benefit yourself.

 

[Shad]

you do mean energy. energy and material are different. matter is a physical material. do you mean material has no a beginning?

Matter is just energy given a specific form. If matter can not be created nor destroyed then it has no beginning. Beginning suggest there was a period of time where there was no matter at all. We have no such information showing this is true.

 

[use_your_brain]

As I thought you do not understand plagiarism. To hold to the idea that he plagiarized the "good things" shows that revelation was false



Using the works of others but claiming you are the author of it to benefit yourself.

per your plot, then he plagiarized some stuff and received some revelation as well. didn't I say no matter he plagiarized as long as it brings the truth content?.

 

[Shad]

per your plot, then he plagiarized some stuff and received some revelation as well. didn't I say no matter he plagiarized as long as it brings the truth content?.

That is not what Islamic tradition nor the Quran claims. So you are openly challenging your religion and traditions claims.

Plagiarism matters. The fact that you think it doesn't shows you have never had post-secondary education. Plagiarism is fraud thus you are claiming that Muhammad was a fraud. This places more doubt on claimed revelation since a fraud is capable of lying already, and has according to you. Revelation could be another lie just as plagiarism is. You have no parameter to evaluate what is fraud and what isn't beside a religious bias which is just cherry picking.

 

[use_your_brain]

Matter is just energy given a specific form. If matter can not be created nor destroyed then it has no beginning. Beginning suggest there was a period of time where there was no matter at all. We have no such information showing this is true.

I don't want to embarrass you, matter and energy are different.
The difference between matter and energy is that energy is produced from matter yet has no mass and is the capacity to do work while matter is the physical "stuff" in the universe. Matter needs energy to move. yes, theoretically energy can not be created nor destroyed, but what about the matter/stuff that belongs to the mass?

 

[use_your_brain]

That is not what Islamic tradition nor the Quran claims. So you are openly challenging your religion and traditions claims.

Plagiarism matters. The fact that you think it doesn't shows you have never had post-secondary education. Plagiarism is fraud thus you are claiming that Muhammad was a fraud. This places more doubt on claimed revelation since a fraud is capable of lying already, and has according to you. Revelation could be another lie just as plagiarism is. You have no parameter to evaluate what is fraud and what isn't beside a religious bias which is just cherry picking.

no problem he plagiarized the previous teaching as long as it brings the truth. thus, let us believe in the truth only, deal?

 

[Shad]

I don't want to embarrass you, matter and energy are different.

Yes different in form. However matter can become energy and energy matter. What do you think you do when you eat..... You convert matter into chemcial energy. What do you think radiation from the Sun is. Matter being convert into energy. You only embarrass yourself since you have no idea what you are talking about.

The difference between matter and energy is that energy is produced from matter yet has no mass and is the capacity to do work while matter is the physical "stuff" in the universe. Matter needs energy to move. yes, theoretically energy can not be created nor destroyed, but what about the matter/stuff that belongs to the mass?

Matter is just energy with mass, it is a form of energy given a label. You confuse energy to move, kinetic energy, with all energy. Kinetic energy is just movement a form of energy not all energy.

Forms matter takes can be destroyed. For example your body is a form that matter has taken. It can be destroyed as a form. However the matter itself can not.

You are almost a century behind in physics. I suggest you actually research the subject before speaking about it as clearly you have no idea what you are talking about.

http://csep10.phys.utk.edu/astr162/lect/energy/mass-energy.html

 

[Shad]

no problem he plagiarized the previous teaching as long as it brings the truth. thus, let us believe in the truth only, deal?

How can there be a truth in any of Muhammad's claims when he is a fraud that plagiarized others. More so you do not even consider what he plagiarized is false. You automatically believe it is true only due to religious indoctrination. You arguments undermine Islam and are blasphemy. If you live in an Islamic nation I would be careful since some of these states arrest and imprison people for questioning Islamic doctrine as you have. Some Muslims have killed people for saying what you have said. Heck a few days ago some kid chopped his hand of when he blasphemed by mistake and he didn't come close to say what you did.

 

[use_your_brain]

Yes different in form. However matter can become energy and energy matter. What do you think you do when you eat..... You convert matter into chemcial energy. What do you think radiation from the Sun is. Matter being convert into energy. You only embarrass yourself since you have no idea what you are talking about.



Matter is just energy with mass, it is a form of energy given a label. You confuse energy to move, kinetic energy, with all energy. Kinetic energy is just movement a form of energy not all energy.

Forms matter takes can be destroyed. For example your body is a form that matter has taken. It can be destroyed as a form. However the matter itself can not.

You are almost a century behind in physics. I suggest you actually research the subject before speaking about it as clearly you have no idea what you are talking about.

http://csep10.phys.utk.edu/astr162/lect/energy/mass-energy.html

you do imply energy created the matter in sense of the birth of the universe, right? but you have to know, energy is the function of the mass. mass is a property of a physical body/material/stuff. how could the energy exist before mass existed?

 

[Shad]

you do imply energy created the matter in sense of the birth of the universe, right? but you have to know, energy is the function of the mass. how could the energy exist before mass existed?

Since matter is energy given a specific form not matter giving energy a form. You have it backwards. Energy is not a function of mass at all. Again demonstrating you are ignorant of physics. Try again son. Maybe take my advice and research the topic before you continue your blundering about a subject you know nothing about at all.

I imply nothing as I never said anything about the universe forming. You created a strawman based on your ignorance of the topic. You should stop before you make yourself look more foolish than you already have.

You own argument can be turned against your God claims. However could an immaterial God create anything if mass thus matter didn't already exist. Thus God didn't create the universe but gave it form. Matter and energy are above God thus God is limited by something thus not God. This is no more special than taking wood, matter, to make a chair. I didn't create the matter I gave it a form and labelled it. You refuted your own religious view due to your own ignorance of the topic.

 

[use_your_brain]

How can there be a truth in any of Muhammad's claims when he is a fraud that plagiarized others. More so you do not even consider what he plagiarized is false. You automatically believe it is true only due to religious indoctrination. You arguments undermine Islam and are blasphemy. If you live in an Islamic nation I would be careful since some of these states arrest and imprison people for questioning Islamic doctrine as you have. Some Muslims have killed people for saying what you have said. Heck a few days ago some kid chopped his hand of when he blasphemed by mistake and he didn't come close to say what you did.

did I say he plagiarized the stuff from religious teaching? you the one who said so. In case of me, I don't care he plagiarized the stuff or not as long as it brings the true stuff. therefore why don't you simply believe if you already knew he taught the true things? why do you reject the truth that he brought out?

 

[use_your_brain]

Since matter is energy given a specific form not matter giving energy a form. You have it backwards. Energy is not a function of mass at all. Again demonstrating you are ignorant of physics. Try again son. Maybe take my advice and research the topic before you continue your blundering about a subject you know nothing about at all.

I imply nothing as I never said anything about the universe forming. You created a strawman based on your ignorance of the topic. You should stop before you make yourself look more foolish than you already have.

You own argument can be turned against your God claims. However could an immaterial God create anything if mass thus matter didn't already exist. Thus God didn't create the universe but gave it form. Matter and energy are above God thus God is limited by something thus not God. This is no more special than taking wood, matter, to make a chair. I didn't create the matter I gave it a form and labelled it. You refuted your own religious view due to your own ignorance of the topic.

you have to know energy does exist because of the matter.

 

[prometheus11]

use-your-brain, this is just basic physics. There's no debate, here. Shad is simply telling you what science understands about energy and matter.

I am sure there are ideas we should debate. Basic physics is fairly well established.

 

[Shad]

did I say he plagiarized the stuff from religious teaching?

You said it didn't matter if he did. Thus you do not care if Muhammad was a fraud or not. However by being a fraud shows he was a liar and puts into question everything he claimed.

you the one who said so.

No, I didn't. You agreed with Outhouse and I disagree with him.

In case of me, I don't care he plagiarized the stuff or not as long as it brings the true stuff. therefore why don't you simply believe if you already knew he taught the true things? why do you reject the truth that he brought out?

Simple fact is that he taught idea that were false such as the Exodus and Conquest of Canaan. These events never happened thus he claims a myth was history. This undermine he claims of truth when he treated fictional stories if it were historical. Again you presupposition is that he taught truth not mine. You nor any Muslim can even establish he was right or taught truth. Your religious presuppositions are not mine. Try again.

 

[prometheus11]

you have to know energy does exist because of the matter.

I don't..... What is.... Even if.... I'm.... How do we....

Um....

 

[Shad]

you have to know energy does exist because of the matter.

Wrong as I pointed out to you already with the link. Energy is primary not matter. Matter is a form of energy not energy is a form of matter. Your ignorance and refusal to educate yourself is appalling. You user name is ironic since you refuse to follow it's meaning when give the chance to do so.