Origins of the Quran/Islam - various academic perspectives

[Shad]

I don't..... What is.... Even if.... I'm.... How do we....

Um....

It happens when someone decides to discuss a subject they know nothing about all while ignoring the link that shows they are wrong. It is willful ignorance for the sake of religion.

 

[use_your_brain]

You said it didn't matter if he did. Thus you do not care if Muhammad was a fraud or not. However by being a fraud shows he was a liar and puts into question everything he claimed.



No, I didn't. You agreed with Outhouse and I disagree with him.



Simple fact is that he taught idea that were false such as the Exodus and Conquest of Canaan. These events never happened thus he claims a myth was history. This undermine he claims of truth when he treated fictional stories if it were historical. Again you presupposition is that he taught truth not mine. You nor any Muslim can even establish he was right or taught truth. Your religious presuppositions are not mine. Try again.

I said: it is not a problem to me, if he plagiarized the stuff from previous religious teaching.
If he plagiarized the true things, then why don't you believe in that true stuff?
in case of Exodus and Conquest of Canaan, what do they have to do with Prophet Muhammad teaching? LOL, oops.. i am sorry.

 

[use_your_brain]

Wrong as I pointed out to you already with the link. Energy is primary not matter. Matter is a form of energy not energy is a form of matter. Your ignorance and refusal to educate yourself is appalling. You user name is ironic since you refuse to follow it's meaning when give the chance to do so.

then what kind of the energy it is according to you, in case of the born of the universe?

 

[Shad]

I said: it is not a problem to me, if he plagiarized the stuff from previous religious teaching.
If he plagiarized the true things, then why don't you believe in that true stuff?
in case of Exodus and Conquest of Canaan, what do they have to do with Prophet Muhammad teaching? LOL, oops.. i am sorry.

Why would I believe a story which is fictional is true.... Why would I believe a fraud, as per your argument, that teaches falsehood as truths. You do not care about actual truth you only care about what Islam claims is truth all while ignoring the evidence against this claim.

Considering he mentions Moses and Joshua which are fiction and about an event that never happened he is repeating a fiction as if it was a historical fact. IE A god message would know this never happened but a limited human wouldn't as it was treated as a historical fact until archaeology showed it wasn't.

 

[Shad]

then what is energy according to you, in case of the born of the universe?

From what I understand it would energy with in quantum physics rather than pre-quantum physics idea of energy.

 

[use_your_brain]

Why would I believe a story which is fictional is true.... Why would I believe a fraud, as per your argument, that teaches falsehood as truths.

Considering he mentions Moses and Joshua which are fiction and about an event that never happened he is repeating a fiction as if it was a historical fact. IE A god message would know this never happened but a limited human wouldn't as it was treated as a historical fact until archaeology showed it wasn't.

But the prophet taught the truth only. so there is no chance it is a fiction at all. except you able to disprove he taught the false, unscientific, unhistorical, un-archaeological things.
Moses and Joshua? Who is Joshua you talk about? Jesus? Did prophet Muhammad say the wrong thing about them?

 

[use_your_brain]

From what I understand it would energy with in quantum physics rather than pre-quantum physics idea of energy.

so you do mean the energy with in quantum physics created the universe?

 

[prometheus11]

so you do mean the energy with in quantum physics created the universe?

Firstly, that's a loaded question that presumes certain axioms not agreed upon. Secondly, nobody knows.

 

[use_your_brain]

Firstly, that's a loaded question that presumes certain axioms not agreed upon. Secondly, nobody knows.

yes, 'nobody' knows. it is what I say the limit of science domain. How the universe began still leaves a Greatest Mystery in science.

 

[prometheus11]

yes, 'nobody' knows. it is what I say the limit of science domain.

The limit. Absolutely.

 

[Shad]

But the prophet taught the truth only. so there is no chance it is a fiction at all. except you able to disprove he taught the false, unscientific, unhistorical, un-archaeological things.
Moses and Joshua? Who is Joshua you talk about? Jesus? Did prophet Muhammad say the wrong thing about them?

No he didn't since Moses, Joshua and the exodus were fictional. Although I have to admit that expecting you to know anything above a grade school education is probably asking too much. Your religious presupposition has no basis in reality. Sorry but physical evidence trumps your beliefs regardless of what you think. Beside archaeology has evidence showing the Israelites were Canaanites and were never in Egypt as per the story. You can go look up the Exodus lectures at Caltech if you want to see the views from archaeology. However you wont as you refuse to acknowledge anything that shows your religion is wrong.Willful ignorance for the sake of a religious ideology is why the sciences have provides more to humanity in the last 3 centuries than every religion has for millennia.

He didn't just say the wrong things about them, he said a event that never happened took place. That is speaking a falsehood.

 

[Shad]

so you do mean the energy with in quantum physics created the universe?

I have no idea if it did but that is what some physicist claim. However as I said it is speculation and I treat it as such.

 

[use_your_brain]

No he didn't since Moses, Joshua and the exodus were fictional. Although I have to admit that expecting you to know anything above a grade school education is probably asking too much. Your religious presupposition has no basis in reality.

He didn't just say the wrong things about them, he said a event that never happened took place. That is speaking a falsehood.

What did prophet Muhammad say about Moses, Joshua and the Exodus, thereby you consider them are fictions?
it is not clear now what wrong with prophet Muhammad teaching regarding to those things is.

 

[use_your_brain]

I have no idea if it did but that is what some physicist claim. However as I said it is speculation and I treat it as such.

yes, you have no idea, for awhile, perhaps you can back later on. Not only you, even the scientists until today can not either explain this fundamental mystery. Like on this site: http://www.livescience.com/1774-greatest-mysteries-universe.html

 

[Shad]

What did prophet Muhammad say about Moses, Joshua and the Exodus, thereby you consider them are fictions?
it is not clear now what wrong with prophet Muhammad teaching regarding to those things.

The fact that he claimed they exists and that the events happened yet archaeology found no evidence of any of it. However it found evidence that Hebrew were Canaanites and that Judaism was a polytheist religion turned into a monotheistic one after the Babylonian exile. Yahweh and El are both Canaanite gods rather than what Judaism claims.

 

[Shad]

yes, you have no idea, for awhile, perhaps you can back later on. Not only you, even the scientists until today can not either explain this fundamental mystery. Like on this site: http://www.livescience.com/1774-greatest-mysteries-universe.html

So what. This does not mean your religious presupposition is right. You argument is nothing more than an argument from ignorance. Can't explain X therefore God. Look up the fallacy if you need help.

 

[use_your_brain]

The fact that he claimed they exists and that the events happened yet archaeology found no evidence of any of it. However it found evidence that Hebrew were Canaanites and that Judaism was a polytheist religion turned into a monotheistic one after the Babylonian exile. Yahweh and El are both Canaanite gods rather than what Judaism claims.

there is a tangible evidence that Moses for instance did exist and also the Exodus. I don't know well about Canaanites, since it has nothing to do with my religion.

 

[use_your_brain]

So what. This does not mean your religious presupposition is right. You argument is nothing more than an argument from ignorance. Can't explain X therefore God. Look up the fallacy if you need help.

Why do you say my religious presupposition is not right? Does my religion say the wrong thing?

 

[Shad]

there is a tangible evidence that Moses for instance did exist and also the Exodus. I don't know well about Canaanites, since it has nothing to do with my religion.

No there isn't. There is no record for him in Egypt nor Canaan. There was no exodus during the Golden Age of Egypt. Heck if you read the bible it claims dozens of cities were destroyed but only 3 ruins were actually found. All 3 were destroyed centuries before the story claims Moses lived. You again have no idea what you are talking about and provides zero evidence for your claim.

I guess you do not even read your own texts.

They said: "O Moses! In this land are a people of exceeding strength: Never shall we enter it until they leave it: if (once) they leave, then shall we enter."
(But) among (their) God-fearing men were two on whom God had bestowed His grace. They said: "Assault them at the (proper) Gate: when once ye are in, victory will be yours; but on God put your trust if ye have faith."

sura 5 (Al-Ma'ida), ayah 22-23.

Also read Tabari;s works.

Good to see not only are you ignorant of other topics but your own religion as well. This is hilarious.

 

[Shad]

Why do you say my religious presupposition is not right? Does my religion say the wrong thing?

I already told you it did by claiming Moses, Joshua, the Exodus and conquest happened. The conquest never happened, the exodus never happened. Moses is a construct hero created for a literacy purpose not a historical fact.

Do you have issues with reading comprehension? I can only conclude you do if I have to repeat the same thing over and over to you.