use_your_brain
Active Member
Dude, there is a tangible evidence of Moses and his Exodus, it is proven scientifically.
and what is the wrong thing in that Sura Al Maidah ayah 22-23?
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Origins of the Quran/Islam - various academic perspectives
- Thread starter Augustus
- Start date
and what is the wrong thing in that Sura Al Maidah ayah 22-23?
use_your_brain
Active Member
How could you come to the conclusion that the conquest had never happened? Do you have any source back your assertion?
Shad
Veteran Member
No there isn't and you have provides nothing to show otherwise beside empty claims. You have no idea what the view with archaeology are since you are an ignorant nobody. Try again son.
First off it mentions a dialogue between Moses and two people. In Islamic tradition one of these people is Joshua. They are talking about the invasion of Canaan since it is the only invasion Moses had any part in planning. Hwoever since such an invasion never happened it is a fictional story being told as historical fact.
It is hilarious that a non-Muslim has to teach a Muslim Islams views. You do not even know your own religion beyond common memes.
Shad
Veteran Member
Already told you exactly what to search for. You ignored this. Not my problem you are unable or unwilling to search for the specifics I provided. You should follow your user name as you have yet to practice what it claims.
use_your_brain
Active Member
LOL. Archaeologist has the evidence that Exodus did happen.
Weird, who is Joshua you keep talking about? How could this Joshua man meet Moses yet they lived in the different era? which Joshua is he?
and also Canaan, what does the islamic text state about this region?
Shad
Veteran Member
You still provides zero evidence otherwise. Beside I am an archaeologist I know what my own field has concluded. You are not. Try again son.
Look up Joshua and educate yourself. I am done teaching a lip-service only Muslim what their own religious views are. I provided a reference so you could educate yourself. Do so.
use_your_brain
Active Member
Confirmation of the actual Exodus route has come from divers finding coral-encrusted bones and chariot remains in the Gulf of Aqaba.
ONE of the most dramatic records of Divine intervention in history is the account of the Hebrews' exodus from Egypt.
Repeated dives in depths ranging from 60 to 200 feet deep (18m to 60m), over a stretch of almost 2.5 km, has shown that the chariot parts are scattered across the sea bed. Artifacts found include wheels, chariot bodies as well as human and horse bones. Divers have located wreckage on the Saudi coastline opposite Nuweiba as well.
Since 1987, Ron Wyatt found three 4-spoke gilded chariot wheels. Coral does not grow on gold, hence the shape has remained very distinct, although the wood inside the gold veneer has disintegrated making them too fragile to move.
The hope for future expeditions is to explore the deeper waters with remote cameras or mini-subs. (ABOVE GILDED CHARIOT WHEEL - Mute witness to the miracle of the crossing of the Red Sea by the Hebrews 3,500 years ago. Found with metal detector.
Coral-encrusted chariot wheel, filmed off the Saudi coastline, matches chariot wheels found in Tutankhamen's tomb
Mineralized Bone - One of many found at the crossing site (above center). This one Tested by the Dept. of Osteology at Stockholm University, was found to be a human femur, from the right leg of a 165-170cm tall man. It is essentially 'fossilized' i.e. replaced by minerals and coral, hence cannot be dated by radiocarbon methods, although this specimen was obviously from antiquity.
use_your_brain
Active Member
Who is Joshua you keep talking about? I don't know this figure, serious.
use_your_brain
Active Member
http://worldnewsdailyreport.com/red...ns-of-egyptian-army-from-the-biblical-exodus/
RED SEA: ARCHAEOLOGISTS DISCOVER REMAINS OF EGYPTIAN ARMY FROM THE BIBLICAL EXODUS
Suez| Egypt’s Antiquities Ministry announced this morning that a team of underwater archaeologists had discovered that remains of a large Egyptian army from the 14th century BC, at the bottom of the Gulf of Suez, 1.5 kilometers offshore from the modern city of Ras Gharib. The team was searching for the remains of ancient ships and artefacts related to Stone Age and Bronze Age trade in the Red Sea area, when they stumbled upon a gigantic mass of human bones darkened by age.
The scientists lead by Professor Abdel Muhammad Gader and associated with Cairo University’s Faculty of Archaeology, have already recovered a total of more than 400 different skeletons, as well as hundreds of weapons and pieces of armor, also the remains of two war chariots, scattered over an area of approximately 200 square meters. They estimate that more than 5000 other bodies could be dispersed over a wider area, suggesting that an army of large size who have perished on the site.
This magnificient blade from an egyptian khopesh, was certainly the weapon of an important character. It was discovered near the remains of a richly decorated war chariot, suggesting it could have belonged to a prince or nobleman.
Many clues on the site have brought Professor Gader and his team to conclude that the bodies could be linked to the famous episode of the Exodus. First of all, the ancient soldiers seem to have died on dry ground, since no traces of boats or ships have been found in the area. The positions of the bodies and the fact that they were stuck in a vast quantity of clay and rock, implie that they could have died in a mudslide or a tidal wave.
The shear number of bodies suggests that a large ancient army perished on the site and the dramatic way by which they were killed, both seem to corroborate the biblical version of the Red Sea Crossing, when the army of the Egyptian Pharaoh was destroyed by the returning waters that Moses had parted. This new find certainly proves that there was indeed an Egyptian army of large size that was destroyed by the waters of the Red Sea during the reign of King Akhenaten.
For centuries, the famous biblical account of the “Red Sea Crossing” was dismissed by most scholars and historians as more symbolic than historical.
This astounding discovery brings undeniable scientific proof that one the most famous episodes of the Old Testament was indeed, based on an historical event. It brings a brand new perspective on a story that many historians have been considering for years as a work of fiction, and suggesting that other themes like the “Plagues of Egypt” could indeed have an historical base.
A lot more research and many more recovery operations are to be expected on the site over the next few years, as Professor Gader and his team have already announced their desire to retrieve the rest of the bodies and artefacts from was has turned out to be one of the richest archaeological underwater sites ever discovered.
RED SEA: ARCHAEOLOGISTS DISCOVER REMAINS OF EGYPTIAN ARMY FROM THE BIBLICAL EXODUS
Suez| Egypt’s Antiquities Ministry announced this morning that a team of underwater archaeologists had discovered that remains of a large Egyptian army from the 14th century BC, at the bottom of the Gulf of Suez, 1.5 kilometers offshore from the modern city of Ras Gharib. The team was searching for the remains of ancient ships and artefacts related to Stone Age and Bronze Age trade in the Red Sea area, when they stumbled upon a gigantic mass of human bones darkened by age.
The scientists lead by Professor Abdel Muhammad Gader and associated with Cairo University’s Faculty of Archaeology, have already recovered a total of more than 400 different skeletons, as well as hundreds of weapons and pieces of armor, also the remains of two war chariots, scattered over an area of approximately 200 square meters. They estimate that more than 5000 other bodies could be dispersed over a wider area, suggesting that an army of large size who have perished on the site.
This magnificient blade from an egyptian khopesh, was certainly the weapon of an important character. It was discovered near the remains of a richly decorated war chariot, suggesting it could have belonged to a prince or nobleman.
Many clues on the site have brought Professor Gader and his team to conclude that the bodies could be linked to the famous episode of the Exodus. First of all, the ancient soldiers seem to have died on dry ground, since no traces of boats or ships have been found in the area. The positions of the bodies and the fact that they were stuck in a vast quantity of clay and rock, implie that they could have died in a mudslide or a tidal wave.
The shear number of bodies suggests that a large ancient army perished on the site and the dramatic way by which they were killed, both seem to corroborate the biblical version of the Red Sea Crossing, when the army of the Egyptian Pharaoh was destroyed by the returning waters that Moses had parted. This new find certainly proves that there was indeed an Egyptian army of large size that was destroyed by the waters of the Red Sea during the reign of King Akhenaten.
For centuries, the famous biblical account of the “Red Sea Crossing” was dismissed by most scholars and historians as more symbolic than historical.
This astounding discovery brings undeniable scientific proof that one the most famous episodes of the Old Testament was indeed, based on an historical event. It brings a brand new perspective on a story that many historians have been considering for years as a work of fiction, and suggesting that other themes like the “Plagues of Egypt” could indeed have an historical base.
A lot more research and many more recovery operations are to be expected on the site over the next few years, as Professor Gader and his team have already announced their desire to retrieve the rest of the bodies and artefacts from was has turned out to be one of the richest archaeological underwater sites ever discovered.
Shad
Veteran Member
A dishonest hack that has no education in archaeology. Beside you do realize that people uses boats for transportation of goods which included wheels as well. Boat sinks and take their cargo with them. Beside his wheel is no where to be found. It is not at the Museum of Cairo, they denied he even submitted it to them, which he claimed he did. Email and ask them about it. They will tell you exactly what I have said here. I openly challenge you to do it. There was no dating done on said wheel by Wyatt, he just assumes it was from the Exodus. As assumption does not make it a fact. You have a picture that is it. A picture you can not even identify with an item that is within an archive. Where is this wheel? Beside coral is an animal not a planet, again demonstrating your ignorance. It can grow on anything it wants as it does not need soil. Besides the Red Sea was a major trade route for centuries, finding items on the bottom of the Red Sea is to be expected no more than find items on the bottom of the Mediterranean is to be expected.
His expedition were illegal. He had no authorization from the Egyptian Antiquity authority nor from Israel Antiquities Authority
"Mr. Ron Wyatt is neither an archaeologist nor has he ever carried out a legally licensed excavation in Israel or Jerusalem. In order to excavate one must have at least a BA in archaeology which he does not possess despite his claims to the contrary. We are aware of his claims which border on the absurd as they have no scientific basis whatsoever nor have they ever been published in a professional journal. They fall into the category of trash which one finds in tabloids such as the National Enquirer, Sun etc. It's amazing that anyone would believe them. Furthermore, he has been thoroughly discredited by various Christian organizations such as Creation Research in Calif. For the latest on his "discoveries" I suggest going into the WWW (use Vista) someone called Tentmaker decided to do an expose of his various claims. Here you will find the truth, which is more amazing that his (RW) fictions.
Shalom
Joe Zias
Curator of Anthropology/Archaeology
Israel Antiquities Authority
POB 586, Jerusalem
Tel. 972 2 292624 "
A. Ron Wyatt has never received a license from the IAA to excavate here in Jerusalem. If he has then let him produce a license for his digs and surveys in Jerusalem, the Judean Desert, Mt. Sinai etc.
B. Finding a coin at the so called Mt. Sinai. This shows the total ignorance of RW and his public who want to believe rather than to know! Coins were not around at the times of Moses, even an amauter archaeologist should know this simple fact!!! There are so many so called Mt. Sinais that even the Jews do not know where it is located. Personally I believe that it is simply a literary invention which is why it will never be found.
C. As for the chariot wheel, a bluff, produce it, on what was the dating made? Saw it in the video, it looks like a hoax. If it exists date it in a C-14 lab. As a amauter arch. which he claims to be he should know of many.
D. The Noah's ark discovery has been discredited. If it is true, and I saw the tape, show lab reports on the C-14 lab report.
E. I personally read the junk about the blood of Christ which is totally absurd. I immediately sent a fax to RW as I knew he was bluffing asking for a) copy and address of the lab report and b) sample for some independent testing which we would do. As of yet we have not received any reply, I sent a colleague who is a professor of NT to Tenn. to see what was up and the person in charge of the museum there said that we in the IAA are a bunch of non-believers and they weren't interested in providing such info to us. =============================
F. I saw his video which is an embarrasment to the world of arch. The only people who can believe this junk is one who has never studied arch. As for the impt. archaeologists he mentions in his reports. I have never heard of one of them after 25 yrs in the profession. As for the James Irwin, what are his credentials regarding the world of Biblical Arch. Did he have a BA in the profession, he was conned into believing this as have many others who wish to believe rather than to know.
G. Has RW ever had any of his impt. so called discoveries published in a peer reviewed journal? If so why not?
H. Lastly if RW can supply us with the lab report on the so called blood of Jesus along with a sample for independent testing which shows 24 chromosones I will then be led along the road to Damascus. Otherwise he is bluffing.
Joe Zias
Curator of Anthropology/Archaeology
Israel Antiquities Authority
POB 586, Jerusalem
Tel. 972 2 292624"
More items you make an assumption about but provide zero evidence to back it up. Again you have a picture from a known fraud, that is it.
Tutankhamen was not the Pharaoh during the exodus period. It was Ramesses the Great. Again produce the location of the wheel as there is no record of it outside Wyatts claims. He didn't even test it. He just assumed it was. It would be like finding a Roman spear under water then assuming the Romans must have had marines with scuba gear rather than the obvious that a ship sunk with the spear on board or it was lost overboard.
Did you read your own source. Can not be dated. You can not even conclude it's age thus your speculation is worthless. Again people uses boats, boats sink. At times their crews die due drowning. Find bodies on the bottom of a well traveled body of water is nothing unique.
You source are speculation by a known fraud. Hilarious. Lets see something from an actual archaeology journals or a credible archaeologist. No some fool that put on an Indian Jones hat and called himself an archaeologist.
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Shad
Veteran Member
WNDR is a fake new site....
http://worldnewsdailyreport.com/about-us/
http://worldnewsdailyreport.com/disclaimer/
http://www.snopes.com/media/notnews/miraclewitness.asp
http://www.thatsfake.com/600-pound-woman-really-give-birth-40-pound-baby/
http://www.snopes.com/tag/world-news-daily-report/
You are so bad at research it is hilarious.... I mean serious are you that stupid? You didn't check your sources you just believed it like the gullible fool you are.
Gader does not even work at UC.
http://fa-arch.cu.edu.eg/en/staffEgy.html
http://fa-arch.cu.edu.eg/en/index.html
Beside the university's own website does not even have a page on your fake new article. The very university this fictional man works for has zero information on this fake discovery. Learn to fact check before posting again...
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Shad
Veteran Member
Look him up, it isn't hard to do. Although considering you can not do any research I guess maybe I should provide you with information you are incapable of finding yourself. Back to teaching you like a child that can not figure out how to even use google.
Open your web browser. Go to Google. Type in Joshua. Wait for the results. Click the first link which is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joshua Now read what is on the page. You could also read the second link, the bible, which is about him.....
Here is also some information on the fraud Wyatts.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Wyatt
http://www.tentmaker.org/WAR/
Also make sure you email both archaeology authorities I mentioned. They will tell you exactly what I said about Wyatts. I doubt you will as you have shown you refuse to understand anything I have told you today. Enjoy your ignorance.
use_your_brain
Active Member
Oh my bad if I use the fake news as a source.
use_your_brain
Active Member
and does Islamic text say something wrong about Joshua?
Shad
Veteran Member
Yes it is since you never fact checked anything you posted. You take whatever you read at face value and do nothing to confirm anything you read. That is the definition of gullible.
Ive told you 4 times already. Joshua was a fiction. Mentioning a fiction as it was a historical fact is to treat something false as true. It would be like me claiming superman exists because I read about him in a comic.
use_your_brain
Active Member
at least not my holy book the fake one.
How could you come to the conclusion that the Joshua guy was a fictional figure?
If Superman existed then I would believe he does exist.
Shad
Veteran Member
Unsubstantiated opinion. More so you book does contain fake stories treated as if history thus you book is contains fake knowledge
I already told you. The conquest never happened. Joshua was the leader of the conquest. He was the leader of a fictional event making him fictional as well. You didn't even read the links as the very answer to your question is in the link.
use_your_brain
Active Member
How could you come to the conclusion that my holy book contains fake stories? Have you observed it?
Who told you that the conquest by Moses had never happened? Do you have any evidence?
Shad
Veteran Member
No need. The cities lists as destroyed were not destroyed within the time frame claimed. There 3 specific cities claimed as destroyed but were destroyed centuries before the time of the story. There is no need for direct observation as if I can use a time machine. The lack of evidence for the story is enough. More so there is evidence that the Hebrews emerged from the Canaanites not some migrant group as the story claims. Repeating these stories as if it happen shows that the Quran treats myth as history thus is false.
The evidence shows it didn't happen. Like cities being destroyed centuries before they were claimed to be destroyed. The fact that both Yahweh and El, the names of your God in Hebrew were two different Gods in the Canaanite religion.
Are you playing stupid or are you just stupid? I already told you to go watch the Caltech Exodus Lecture series. You can then reference each member and their work to read for yourself. You wont though as you ignore anything that refutes your views.
use_your_brain
Active Member
If you had never observed it then how could you conclude it is false? Let alone your assertion is baseless, without any scholar proof to back it.
Which cities do you refer?
I am asking you the academic source instead of a nonsense accusation. Is it sound stupid?