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Origins of the Quran/Islam - various academic perspectives

outhouse

Atheistically
Guess I was wrong. It was created by Ali Sina a crackpot.

Then you should have no problem telling us exactly how this was obviously plagiarized.

Genesis 1:1-5

Bible:
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night.
Genesis 1:1-5 - KJV

Qur'an:
Praise be God, Who created the heavens and the earth, and made the darkness and the light. Yet those who reject Faith hold (others) as equal, with their Guardian-Lord.
Qur'an 6:1
And We appoint the night and the day two portents. Then We make dark the portent of the night, and We make the portent of the day sight-giving, that ye may seek bounty from your Lord, and that ye may know the computation of the years, and the reckoning; and everything have We expounded with a clear expounding.
Qur'an 17:12
 

muhammad_isa

Veteran Member
Is this why islam has the highest illiteracy rates out of all major religions?

No .. that would be for many reasons .. including their wealth being controlled by western financial institutions. One doesn't have to go back very far in history to a time when Muslims were more educated than the rest of the world. Civilisations rise and fall .. be warned!
 

Shad

Veteran Member
Paraphrase may attempt to preserve the essential meaning of the material being paraphrased. Thus, the (intentional or otherwise) reinterpretation of a source to infer a meaning that is not explicitly evident in the source itself qualifies as "original research," and not as paraphrase.

You cherry picked while ignoring the other parameters. You copied two sentences and ignore the other dozen+ ****

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paraphrase

"
A paraphrase /ˈpærəfreɪz/ is a restatement of the meaning of a text or passage using other words. The term itself is derived via Latin paraphrasis from Greek παράφρασις, meaning "additional manner of expression". The act of paraphrasing is also called "paraphrasis".

A paraphrase typically explains or clarifies the text that is being paraphrased. For example, "The signal was red" might be paraphrased as "The train was not allowed to pass because the signal was red". A paraphrase is usually introduced with verbum dicendi—a declaratory expression to signal the transition to the paraphrase. For example, in "The signal was red, that is, the train was not allowed to proceed," the that is signals the paraphrase that follows.

A paraphrase does not need to accompany a direct quotation, the paraphrase typically serves to put the source's statement into perspective or to clarify the context in which it appeared. A paraphrase is typically more detailed than a summary. One should add the source at the end of the sentence, for example: When the light was red, trains could not go (Wikipedia).

Paraphrase may attempt to preserve the essential meaning of the material being paraphrased. Thus, the (intentional or otherwise) reinterpretation of a source to infer a meaning that is not explicitly evident in the source itself qualifies as "original research," and not as paraphrase.

Unlike a metaphrase, which represents a "formal equivalent" of the source, a paraphrase represents a "dynamic equivalent" thereof. While a metaphrase attempts to translate a text literally, a paraphrase conveys the essential thought expressed in a source text, if necessary, at the expense of literality. For details, see dynamic and formal equivalence.

The term is applied to the genre of Biblical paraphrases, which were the most widely circulated versions of the Bible available in medieval Europe.[1] Here, the purpose was not to render an exact rendition of the meaning or the complete text, but to present material from the Bible in a version that was theologically orthodox and not subject to heretical interpretation, or, in most cases, to take from the Bible and present to a wide public material that was interesting, entertaining and spiritually meaningful, or, simply to abridge the text.[1]

The phrase "in your own words" is often used within this context to imply that the writer has rewritten the text in their own writing style - how they would have written it if they had created the idea.[2] Nowadays, there are some models to learn and recognize paraphrase on natural language texts.[3]"
 
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Shad

Veteran Member
No .. that would be for many reasons .. including their wealth being controlled by western financial institutions. One doesn't have to go back very far in history to a time when Muslims were more educated than the rest of the world. Civilisations rise and fall .. be warned!

That time is long past. You are stuck in a nostalgia wishing for better days from centuries ago. However the key issue is that during that time Muslims didn't ignore the works of Persia, China, Greece, Byzantium, Syria, Rome, etc. In modern times many Muslims ignore anything that contradicts the Quran. You traded a culture that was educated for one that are now religious fanatics.
 

muhammad_isa

Veteran Member
There is factual archeological evidence that supports REAL history NOT FOUND in the bible or koran, which contradicts these FACTS

Really? A few posts ago you told us that "None of it comes from the bible."

So what 'facts' might you be referring to, I wonder?
 

outhouse

Atheistically
including their wealth being controlled by western financial institutions

Oh so your claiming only western institutions claim this?

Your factually wrong again.

Its why you can never provide any credible sources to back any of your claims.


I claim your just making this up in desperation. So no provide credible sources or admit your making it up as you go.
 

muhammad_isa

Veteran Member
You traded a culture that was educated for one that are now religious fanatics..

Oh yeah.. when I became a Muslim, many people laughed at me, implying that it was extreme to worship God 5 times a day. If it was good enough for the people of old, it's good enough for me!
 

muhammad_isa

Veteran Member
.


I claim your just making this up in desperation. So no provide credible sources or admit your making it up as you go.

You might be a 'bright historian' but you certainly aren't an economist! Most so called 'third world countries' have difficulty paying their interest to western financial institutions, nevermind the principal .. do I really have to give examples .. i was under the impression that most people realised this .. economic migration etc. etc.
 

outhouse

Atheistically
Yes it does since the verses are in different words

There is a difference between copied and plagiarized.

Plagiarized means taking someone's ideas. In this case it is the text of genesis. islam TOOK the text of genesis

It then claimed divine origin that is correct.


But what is the funniest thing here is your claims of superior academic knowledge :D and you have no clue that Incorrect paraphrase is perhaps the most common type of 'accidental' plagiarism. :rolleyes:
 

outhouse

Atheistically
You might be a 'bright historian' but you certainly aren't an economist! Most so called 'third world countries' have difficulty paying their interest to western financial institutions, nevermind the principal .. do I really have to give examples .. i was under the impression that most people realised this .. economic migration etc. etc.

I claim your just making this up in desperation. So no provide credible sources or admit your making it up as you go.
 

Shad

Veteran Member
Oh yeah.. when I became a Muslim, many people laughed at me, implying that it was extreme to worship God 5 times a day. If it was good enough for the people of old, it's good enough for me!

You missed my point. The Muslim world was a major area of education and development for centuries. Now it is rife with religious fanatics. I was not saying you personally traded anything away but that Muslim culture had a radical change in view points which restrict it's growth as fanatics run modern nations.
 

Shad

Veteran Member
There is a difference between copied and plagiarized.

Plagiarized means taking someone's ideas. In this case it is the text of genesis. islam TOOK the text of genesis

Nope since he gave credit to previous scriptures already

It then claimed divine origin that is correct.

I argued that the divine claim was not as Islam currently presents it as but that it was a reference to a belief in authorship of previous views. After all the Quran is repeating what it claims are the origin scriptures.

But what is the funniest thing here is your claims of superior academic knowledge :D and you have no clue that Incorrect paraphrase is perhaps the most common type of 'accidental' plagiarism. :rolleyes:

Yes says the one that use YT and wiki's as a source yet has not produced a single piece of work from an academic. Nor has shown anything to support plagiarism. Something which you continuously harp when it helps your case but fail to even follow when it does. Remember how you claim Muslims reject academy? You are doing it right now by rejecting everything Augustus has linked. You hold a double-standard.

Muhammad already gave credit to previous scripture in the Quran.
 

muhammad_isa

Veteran Member
I claim your just making this up in desperation. So no provide credible sources or admit your making it up as you go.

As you like..

The Third World was normally seen to include many countries with colonial pasts in Africa, Latin America, Oceania and Asia. It was also sometimes taken as synonymous with countries in the Non-Aligned Movement. In the so-called dependency theory of thinkers like Raul Prebisch, Walter Rodney, Theotonio dos Santos, and Andre Gunder Frank, the Third World has also been connected to the world economic division as "periphery" countries in the world system that is dominated by the "core" countries.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_World
 

Shad

Veteran Member
You might be a 'bright historian' but you certainly aren't an economist! Most so called 'third world countries' have difficulty paying their interest to western financial institutions, nevermind the principal .. do I really have to give examples .. i was under the impression that most people realised this .. economic migration etc. etc.

KSA is a very wealth nation as is Qatar yet both suffered from the same problem which is that their education systems are decades behind. Besides it isn't the west's fault Muslim nations took out loans they couldn't pay. It would be like blaming a bank when you are unable to pay your mortgage. Muslim nations took these loans, it is their problem.
 

outhouse

Atheistically
As you like..

The Third World was normally seen to include many countries with colonial pasts in Africa, Latin America, Oceania and Asia. It was also sometimes taken as synonymous with countries in the Non-Aligned Movement. In the so-called dependency theory of thinkers like Raul Prebisch, Walter Rodney, Theotonio dos Santos, and Andre Gunder Frank, the Third World has also been connected to the world economic division as "periphery" countries in the world system that is dominated by the "core" countries.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_World

Has nothing to do with what your trying to posit
 

Shad

Veteran Member
Incorrect paraphrase is perhaps the most common type of 'accidental' plagiarism. :rolleyes:

Which you still have yet to establish at all. You are merely declaring it, this does not make it a fact.

How is it incorrect, where, why. Make an argument not empty statements. The Quran uses different words not merely moving words to different places. Heck one of your examples end in a completely different sentence or did you not bother to read what you copy/paste from your wiki.

Heck you used two verses as if these were one complete comment, which it isn't, as if it were plagiarism.
 
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