Overweight man sues Air France over seat row

[Booko]

If its in the US there are planes and busses. They tend to get you pretty close to wherever you need to go (not like an airport gets you to exactly where you want either). If you are going over seas then you are probably going to need to fly =) Boat takes too long.

I am not suggesting you should do this... Just pointing out there are actually other forms of transportation that can get you where you need to go (with the exception of crossing water)

Actually read what I wrote before, Ryan. I'm telling you, if it's more than a few hours trip, it's not an option. Period.

To take a train from here to Michigan is a 2-day trip through DC. Not an option, period.

To take a bus is no better, because anywhere they stop for food, I can't eat, and I can't take enough food with me to cover.

I flew through O'Hare Airport earlier this year, to get from Atlanta to Kalamazoo. It took me, maybe 6 hours. I was able to get buy from stuffing myself with a hearty high-protein breakfast before I left, taking along the ONE kind of protein bar I can actually eat and a bag of nuts (which I can't eat many of), and if there had been a delay for weather, here were the only things in the airport I could possibly eat:

1. A $38 steak in the Wolfgang Puck restaurant, *provided* they actually pay attention and follow my clear instructions to put NOTHING on that steak.

2. A banana or apple. (Oops...no protein there, so that won't work either).

So tell me how I'm going to make a 2-day trip when there's literally NO food I can eat, and I can't bring enough of my own supplies to cover the time?

 

[klubbhead024]

Why should normal sized people have to suffer becuase a man is to fat? You pay for a seat, you get that whole seat. Shoudl the person next to you need more then is what is given, they SHOULD be charged extra!

I am kind of chubby, so this doesn't come from a skinny person!

 

[Booko]

Why should normal sized people have to suffer becuase a man is to fat? You pay for a seat, you get that whole seat. Shoudl the person next to you need more then is what is given, they SHOULD be charged extra!

I am kind of chubby, so this doesn't come from a skinny person!

Yeah, but we don't know that was the only possibility in this case of the man on Air France.

If the plane was full, there wasn't room for him to have two seats anyway, in which case he shouldn't be charged extra. He should've risked being bumped to a later flight by not booking 2 seats, at most.

And if the plane wasn't full, I don't see why the company can't practice some decent customer service and just find the guy a place to sit where everyone is happy.

And their lack of respect is really over the top.

 

[Ryan2065]

So tell me how I'm going to make a 2-day trip when there's literally NO food I can eat, and I can't bring enough of my own supplies to cover the time?

Have them freeze you? ^-^

You have to realize you do not represent the majority of overweight Americans. Many of them would be able to take a bus or a train without encountering medical problems. I was more talking about them then about people with special needs. If you are overweight due to a legit medical condition then I do not think you should be charged for the extra seat because it is pretty much the same as say someone in a wheelchair needing an extra seat for some equipment (or something similar). But it is the people who are overweight because they have neglected their own health (me included) who should have to pay more for another seat if they do in fact take up two seats.

 

[Ryan2065]

Yeah, but we don't know that was the only possibility in this case of the man on Air France.

If the plane was full, there wasn't room for him to have two seats anyway, in which case he shouldn't be charged extra. He should've risked being bumped to a later flight by not booking 2 seats, at most.

And if the plane wasn't full, I don't see why the company can't practice some decent customer service and just find the guy a place to sit where everyone is happy.

Air France did let him fly a few times before without charging him an extra seat which leads me to believe that they do actually let people take up an extra seat if they are not cutting it close...

I thought you were the one who said you could not last a few days without certain food? What if you were bumped from a flight because you did not think you would need to buy an extra seat and the next flight was the next day? I would not imagine you would be happy... That is what Air France would encounter... It is much safer to enforce the policy "If you take up two seats and we might have a full plane you will need to buy a 2nd seat."

 

[Hacker]

When people fly, they are paying for a seat on the plane. If they take up more than one seat, they should have to pay for more than one seat. I think it's pretty simple.

I agree.

 

[Booko]

Have them freeze you? ^-^

Now *that* would work!!! : hamster :

You have to realize you do not represent the majority of overweight Americans.

Hello!?! Uh...Ryan, it's not about the *weight* for me...it's about the food allergies and hypoglycemia. I could weigh 120 pounds (and in a few years I just might), and my limitations would be the same.

There was a statement made that people can just take alternative methods. For more people than you suspect, there's no "just" about it.

If you are overweight due to a legit medical condition then I do not think you should be charged for the extra seat because it is pretty much the same as say someone in a wheelchair needing an extra seat for some equipment (or something similar). But it is the people who are overweight because they have neglected their own health (me included) who should have to pay more for another seat if they do in fact take up two seats.

Oh, please, define "legitimate medical condition."

I have a "legitimate medical condition" that accounts for my extra 45 pounds. It's called an endocrine system out of balance and a body poisoned from eating things that are toxic for 45 years of my life. (Funny how I've lost 5 pounds in the last couple of weeks, though I have done less exercise than usual and haven't done anything to my diet except start to remove corn from it.)

Try to get some tinplated dictator behind a ticket counter to take you seriously. I can't even get waitresses in restaurants to take me seriously. They just think I'm picky eater.

And if I had a dollar for every time some puke in public acted like it was "all my fault" because "I don't exercise and I eat too much" I'd be as rich as Richard Branson.

And I'm not even morbidly obese. I just look like your average dumpy middle-aged housefrau.

I could say I can't imagine what it's like being morbidly obese, but I do have some idea. One of my best friends has Hashimoto's disease (dead thyroid) and weighed 300 pounds. Doesn't matter what she did, the weight would simply not come off (until she went on thyroid meds). I've watched her get even more crap over the years, and when I've been around, I tossed the crap right back at the person who flung it in the first place. She's not the combative type, but obviously I am. :cover:

And then there are the recently-discovered MC3 receptors. See if you can find any info on that: it's a fascinating bit of biological discovery. If your MC3 receptors don't work, your body never gets the signal that you aren't hungry anymore, so you just keep eating.

People are so ignorant about what is a "legitimate medical excuse" that it's laughable, except for the people on the *receiving* end of the crap, it ain't funny. You know this.

The truth is, MOST people who are more than 25 pounds overweight have a "legitimate medical excuse." They've just been unable to find out WHY they can't lose the weight, because their doctors can't find out what's wrong with them.

I'm amazingly lucky. If I had to depend on MDs to find my dairy and corn allergies and instruct me on how to keep those things out of my diet, I'd still be half comotose on the sofa with migraines days at a time. That is, if I hadn't killed myself yet.

Many people don't know those options exist, and if they did, they couldn't afford them. Heck, lots of people can't even afford MDs.

 

[Ryan2065]

Hello!?! Uh...Ryan, it's not about the *weight* for me...it's about the food allergies and hypoglycemia. I could weigh 120 pounds (and in a few years I just might), and my limitations would be the same.

There was a statement made that people can just take alternative methods. For more people than you suspect, there's no "just" about it.

So what percentage of overweight Americans are not able to take alternative methods of transportation due to medical conditions (other than a result from their weight)? I realize there are a few people out there that need to travel by airplane but again, it does not represent a majority of Americans. This is why I say that those who have legit medical conditions that cause their weight shouldn't be required to pay the extra money because they have no control over their weight.

Oh, please, define "legitimate medical condition."

I have a "legitimate medical condition" that accounts for my extra 45 pounds. It's called an endocrine system out of balance and a body poisoned from eating things that are toxic for 45 years of my life. (Funny how I've lost 5 pounds in the last couple of weeks, though I have done less exercise than usual and haven't done anything to my diet except start to remove corn from it.)

Lets see... Heart or lung disorders, pregnancy, and several endocrine diseases... A medical symptom of all of these is weight gain... Eating too much and not excerising is not a medical condition, it is a lack of will power.

Try to get some tinplated dictator behind a ticket counter to take you seriously. I can't even get waitresses in restaurants to take me seriously. They just think I'm picky eater.

If airlines did do this I would imagine some sort of card through the airlines would work... Say when you buy the ticket apply for the card and it would be a quick call to your doctor to know if you have the condition or not. Then just keep presenting the card...

And if I had a dollar for every time some puke in public acted like it was "all my fault" because "I don't exercise and I eat too much" I'd be as rich as Richard Branson.

There is no reason for giving all overweight people a break because some overweight people have a legit medical condition. Or is your argument now "Others make fun of me so all overweight people should get special consideration" ? I myself am quite overweight so I know what it is like to have people stare and make fun of my weight. I am overweight because I do not eat right and because I do not exercise nearly enough so I don't expect others to suffer because I am lazy.

People are so ignorant about what is a "legitimate medical excuse" that it's laughable, except for the people on the *receiving* end of the crap, it ain't funny. You know this.

Again.. this is why I would expect the airlines to get in touch with the doctors... All it would take is faxing 1 sheet of paper with your name on it to the doctor and getting a fax back. Not so hard and your doctor would be the best to know if you are overweight from a legit medical condition.

The truth is, MOST people who are more than 25 pounds overweight have a "legitimate medical excuse." They've just been unable to find out WHY they can't lose the weight, because their doctors can't find out what's wrong with them.

So how is it our society has these "medical conditions" that most other societies do not? We are the most overweight society in the world and it is because of our life style, not because of medical conditions.

I'm amazingly lucky. If I had to depend on MDs to find my dairy and corn allergies and instruct me on how to keep those things out of my diet, I'd still be half comotose on the sofa with migraines days at a time. That is, if I hadn't killed myself yet.

Many people don't know those options exist, and if they did, they couldn't afford them. Heck, lots of people can't even afford MDs.

So the medical doctors are not the ones to go to when looking for a reason you are overweight?

 

[FerventGodSeeker]

Full story here.
My question is.... Ok, I'm fat. I weigh more then the man in question. But seeing that these airlines are so weight concuss, should not my wife, who weighs only about 120 lbs, be given a discount? And should not anybody suffering from anorexia be allowed to fly free???

No, because they still take up one seat...thus, they pay for one seat. If a person takes up more than one seat, they pay for the number of seats they take up.

 

[Djamila]

I'm so sure a fat Frenchman was "shocked" that Europeans could be so cruel to those who are obese. I'm sure it was the first time in his life he'd even encountered discrimination based on size in Europe.

Especially in France, my God? The French are not at all known for their anorexic, pack-a-day Parisians.

 

[Bishka]

Air France's website urges overweight passengers to reserve a second seat, adding that failure to do so might mean they are refused access to an aircraft if it is fully booked.

This says it all for me. They have rules and regulations, either you like it or not, and if not choose another company to fly with or a different way of traveling. If it is clearly stated on their website that an overweight passenger may have to purchase an additional seat, then there should be no problem with anybody complaining.

Jean-Jacques Jauffret, a French scriptwriter, told Reuters Wednesday he had felt humiliated by Air France staff who had measured his waist in public at New Dehli airport in 2005 and decided he was too big for a single seat.

Though, this is not to be accepted. If something is going to be done, do not do it in front of other people. Kindly ask the person to step to the side, or do it in a private room so that no embarssment of any public kind can happen.

"Let's be objective. This man is fat," lawyer Fernand Gamault told the court in Bobigny, according to Le Parisien newspaper. "He barely fits on the courtroom chair. How could he sit in an airplane?"

This was not necessary for the lawyer to speak about.

 

[jonny]

If the airlines are selling seats on a plane, then they should provide a seat on a plane, not HALF a seat. They know full well that people are getting bigger. They know full well that the seats they are providing are not tailored to fit their own average passenger. And they don't care.

They are cramming us into their planes as tightly as they can for the sake of profit, and we're letting them. Now they want to humiliate us further by measuring us and making some of us pay for two of their innaduquite seats, and we're stupid enough to let them.

What a bunch of wussies we are. As long as it's the other guy being humiliated and cheated we'll just shut up and watch. Right? I sure hope that if I were to witness the airlines treating someone like that I'd stand up and speak up.

Honestly, most people can fit into the airline seats just fine.

 

[ChrisP]

Honestly, most people can fit into the airline seats just fine.

I have trouble @ 6 foot 3, It's a legroom issue though.

 

[jonny]

I have trouble @ 6 foot 3, It's a legroom issue though.

Legroom I can understand - there could always be more of that - but the butt room is usually plenty for most people. I don't think that an airline seat is any smaller than a seat you'd find in an office or classroom.

 

[jeffrey]

It could be worse....
Flatulent passenger grounds flight
Full article here

NASHVILLE, Tenn., Dec 6 (Reuters Life!) - It may be one problem airline security officials never envisioned -- a passenger lighting matches in flight to mask odors from her flatulence.

The woman's actions resulted in an emergency landing on Monday in Nashville of an American Airlines flight bound for Dallas from Washington, D.C., said Lynne Lowrance, a spokeswoman for Nashville's airport.

Other passengers reported the odor of burned matches, but the woman was not forthcoming when asked about it, Lowrance said on Wednesday.

"Of course, she was scared and embarrassed but all the passengers had to disembark, all the luggage had to be searched, a canine team was brought in, and about three hours were consumed in sorting out the situation," she said.

The woman was not allowed back on the flight and barred from flying on American Airlines, Lowrance said.

"Since there was no malice involved and the incident was accidental, she was not charged with anything," she said.

Passengers are permitted four books of paper safety matches on a plane but cannot light them during flight, Lowrance said.

"I've had calls from people all over the country about this," she said. "And I don't have the answer to this problem."

 

[Ðanisty]

That just a sensitivity issue. Do people get upset or embarrassed when their luggage is measured or weighed??

You can't compare people to luggage.

Sensitivity issue? If someone tried to measure my waist in pubic, I'd deck 'em!

I'm with you!

You know, I completely agree that the passengers should have said something about it, but chances are they didn't exactly know what was going on or why. When it comes to large numbers in public, it's very difficult for a single person to get enough courage to go up to an official and ask "What's going on here?" let alone say "Hey! That's wrong!" So it doesn't exactly surprise me that the passengers let it happen.

What? I think it's pretty obvious when someone has a tape measure wrapped around their midsection that they're getting measured.

I also don't see how the airlines can measure somebody in private seeing that they can pat me down and search me in the same area. Keep in mind, that most people aren't going to poke fun at somebody because they got measured.

Where do you live??? People poke fun at fat people all the time...I would say moreso and more publicly than any other group of people because they feel that it is acceptable. It's not.

Again.. this is why I would expect the airlines to get in touch with the doctors... All it would take is faxing 1 sheet of paper with your name on it to the doctor and getting a fax back. Not so hard and your doctor would be the best to know if you are overweight from a legit medical condition.

You expect everybody's doctor to be available 24/7 to fax a sheet of paper to anyone who gives their patients a hard time?

So the medical doctors are not the ones to go to when looking for a reason you are overweight?

I understand what Booko is saying here. The vast majority of doctors are idiots. I had a stomach infection for 4 months before any doctors figured it out and I went to the hospital nearly a year ago with something that should have been a red flag for diabetes, but didn't get diagnosed until last month. These aren't even obscure problems. If it was something uncommon, I'm sure it still wouldn't be diagnosed.

 

[darkpenguin]

When people fly, they are paying for a seat on the plane. If they take up more than one seat, they should have to pay for more than one seat. I think it's pretty simple.

agreed!

 

[Mister_T]

[/b]
B.S. Look at the jokes already about this topic. I walk into a restaurant with a buffet and hear the jokes of "They going to loose money on him!" or 'Raise the price! Quick!" or "Pillsbury says it best, eh?" Or charge him double for the buffet!"... Sound familiar? That is why I eat out of a cooler on the road, just so I don't have to hear the jokes or the see snears.

There is truth to what Jeff is saying. My parents are both very overweight. No one really makes comments to my dad because he looks like he would take your head off if you made him mad. My mother on the other hand, has had comments made about her all of the time. Her weight increased when she was on chemotherapy for breast cancer. Not only did people poke fun of her weight, they also poked fun of her hairless head. I took my mother out for dinner on mothers day and this family sitting next to us were poking fun her right in front of me. I could not believe people were making fun of my mother's appearance on mothers day in front of her children. It took every ounce of self control I had not become hostile and violent.

Fat people get made fun of all the time in movies and TV shows. It's become socially acceptable (at least in the U.S.) to have a chuckle at an overweight person's expense and now it's socially acceptable to discriminate against them. It's not right.

 

[Mister_T]

Not to mention the fact that those airline seats are so damn small to begin with. I'm 5'7" with a muscular build and broad shoulders, and I'm cramped in those seats. You'd have to be a twig not to be uncomfortable.

 

[Ryan2065]

You expect everybody's doctor to be available 24/7 to fax a sheet of paper to anyone who gives their patients a hard time?

I said when they buy the ticket... I didn't realize a majority of the people bought their tickets at the airport 2 hours before their flight... It would require a little bit of planning but not so much...

I understand what Booko is saying here. The vast majority of doctors are idiots.

Booko was also saying that people cannot tell when it is a medical condition or not... So a fat person wouldn't know themselves if it was a medical condition without a medical person telling them... So they could get the medical person to let the airlines know...

I had a stomach infection for 4 months before any doctors figured it out and I went to the hospital nearly a year ago with something that should have been a red flag for diabetes, but didn't get diagnosed until last month. These aren't even obscure problems. If it was something uncommon, I'm sure it still wouldn't be diagnosed.

The problem is doctors are expected to know everything about everything in the medical world... If you think you have a problem with weight, you can go see a GP, or a specialist... Don't expect the GP to know enough to diagnose you the right way though. My family has a very rare cholesterol problem and my mom knows way more about it than my GP. My mom suggests tests they should do then the GP goes home, reads up on them, then decides if we can undergo the tests or not.

Fat people get made fun of all the time in movies and TV shows. It's become socially acceptable (at least in the U.S.) to have a chuckle at an overweight person's expense and now it's socially acceptable to discriminate against them. It's not right.

How is this discrimination? If someone really does take up two seats then why should they not pay for two seats?

Not to mention the fact that those airline seats are so damn small to begin with. I'm 5'7" with a muscular build and broad shoulders, and I'm cramped in those seats. You'd have to be a twig not to be uncomfortable.

There are airlines that you can go on that do not have cramped seats... However it COSTS MORE to have MORE COMFORT. This is how life works.