Paganism - satanic or not?

[Reverend Rick]

I should have just posted, No Paganism is not Satanic.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

I should have just posted, No Paganism is not Satanic.

Too late, the can of worms is now open.

 

[Proffie]

Thank you, wise words!

 

[Erebus]

Shyanekh, it appears that we are actually on the same page, along with Trey. The Satanism you speak of seems more of a "Neo-Satanism". Where the term "Satanism" is more of adopted symbolatry than actual strict belief and worship of the Christian entity known as "Satan".

Thing is, it is the ones who actually believe in this entity that are Christian that seem to want to classify actual worship of said entity as Pagan in effort to distance themselves from him while simultaneously "demonizing" Pagans as a whole. Which I find absurd because it's pretty much two sides of the same coin. It's like if one person worships Zeus and another worships Hades. They both subscribe to Greek mythology and can't really be separated into two completely different religious camps. It's like these Christians want to admit to the existence of "Satan", which as an entity belongs to their religion, yet want to try to classify his worship and following as something completely outside their religion. It makes no logical sense whatsoever. See what I'm saying?

I absolutely see what you're saying and very much agree (I also like the term "Neo-Satanist" it's a good description of most Satanists).
"Satanist" is generally only used as a positive term by other Satanists, it's more commonly used as an insult when used by followers of an Abrahamic faith. It's an "us versus them" attitude that is often directed at people with no good reason.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Yea but a LaVeyan Satanist isn't a True Satanist.

Please enlighten us all on what a "TRUE" Satanist is then?

I think Devil worshippers are not true Satanists... Just wannabe's or people that certainly lack 100% of what Satanism IS that give Satanism a bad name.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

Please enlighten us all on what a "TRUE" Satanist is then?

I think Devil worshippers are not true Satanists... Just wannabe's or people that certainly lack 100% of what Satanism IS that give Satanism a bad name.

Definitions change over time. What is a True Satanist today is not the same as what one was 100 years ago.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Definitions change over time. What is a True Satanist today is not the same as what one was 100 years ago.

Please go into detail about what Satanists believed 100 years ago.

If you could list the differences it would be helpful.

I'm not saying they where the same, I'm saying we have no information on these 100 year ago Satanists.

Yes, we claimed they might have been Satanists, but what did these folks have to say about themselves is my point.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

Yes, we claimed they might have been Satanists, but what did these folks have to say about themselves is my point.

I beleive you mentioned elsewhere that these folks would have been pretty quiet in order to not be persecuted and tortured. I don't know if there were self described Satanists in 1911 or not. I was merely making the point that definitions change.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

To be honest, I’m very surprised by this argument we have found ourselves in. To me the definition of Abrahamic is very easy to understand but I see that so many people out there have a completely different view of the subject. Wow, who knew? Nothing said has given me cause to change my definition but neither have I offered any evidence that my definition is definitive either. So we find ourselves locked in a battle of semantics that could go on for eternity. Time to agree to disagree in my opinion.

 

[blackout]

Not every pagan pantheon or belief system even includes the character 'Satan'.
Beyond that, the character 'Satan' is not primary in any way
to many of the other pantheons or belief systems that include him in some way.

It could be said that he is but one face or mask
for the many Gods of his 'type'.
Pan, Set etc
So is a character the mask it wears?
Or the observer/designer behind it.

Anyway, OBVIOUSLY not every form of paganism is 'Satanic'.
Only the ones that focus primarily on Satan. no?

 

[Reverend Rick]

To be honest, I’m very surprised by this argument we have found ourselves in. To me the definition of Abrahamic is very easy to understand but I see that so many people out there have a completely different view of the subject. Wow, who knew? Nothing said has given me cause to change my definition but neither have I offered any evidence that my definition is definitive either. So we find ourselves locked in a battle of semantics that could go on for eternity. Time to agree to disagree in my opinion.

Trey, the thing is my friend, I don't have to disagree with you on this. You are technically correct about a group of people who may have never existed.

All I am saying is, any group of people should be able to self identify with any group they prefer.

This all started when I said that the Satanists I know consider themselves to be Pagan.

I believe Draka was defending an accusation that all Pagan are Satanic before that.

My position is yes, Satanism could be labeled Abrahamic with good reasoning, the problem is I have never heard of one before, thats all.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

Trey, the thing is my friend, I don't have to disagree with you on this. You are technically correct about a group of people who may have never existed.

All I am saying is, any group of people should be able to self identify with any group they prefer.

This all started when I said that the Satanists I know consider themselves to be Pagan.

I believe Draka was defending an accusation that all Pagan are Satanic before that.

My position is yes, Satanism could be labeled Abrahamic with good reasoning, the problem is I have never heard of one before, thats all.

Not a problem at all, I agree with what you are saying completely. If there is a problem it's probably with generalizations taken too seriously.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Not a problem at all, I agree with what you are saying completely. If there is a problem it's probably with generalizations taken too seriously.

Honestly, the problem started when a Christian attacked a very diverse group of people with a very broad brush.

To them, what is not of their God is of Satan, no exceptions.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

Honestly, the problem started when a Christian attacked a very diverse group of people with a very broad brush.

To them, what is not of their God is of Satan, no exceptions.

True and they are certianly welcome to their beliefs. A Fundamentalist Christian tends to believe that anything not exactly like what they believe is Satanic, the Catholic Church for example. I've heard several fundies rail on how Satan runs the Catholic Church. Of course he's also running the World Bank too but that's a given.

 

[blackout]

True and they are certianly welcome to their beliefs. A Fundamentalist Christian tends to believe that anything not exactly like what they believe is Satanic, the Catholic Church for example. I've heard several fundies rail on how Satan runs the Catholic Church. Of course he's also running the World Bank too but that's a given.

Well God runs everything, no?

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

Well God runs everything, no?

And are not God and Satan to sides of the same coin?

 

[blackout]

And are not God and Satan to sides of the same coin?

Well it takes at least two sides
to create an "enemy" scenario.

The Classic "Good/Evil" Iconology.

Google Image 'God, Satan Chess' or 'God, Satan Armwrestle'

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

Well it takes at least two sides
to create an "enemy" scenario.

The Classic "Good/Evil" Iconology.

Google Image 'God, Satan Chess' or 'God, Satan Armwrestle'

Monotheism must have a Good/Evil Iconology. The Taoist in me rejects Monotheism as there can not be an absolute with out an oposite to balance it. Satan balances God but only God is God. Could it be possible that Satan is just God having a bad hair day? That it is more comfortable for us to create a separate creature to perform all the evils in the world instead of considering that God himself has a dark side?