Alceste
Vagabond
Because the US has veto power and regularly uses it to prop up Israel whenever the international consensus is that something must be done about the illegal settlements and the occupation in general.
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Palastinians now non member observer status
- Thread starter Terrywoodenpic
- Start date
Because the US has veto power and regularly uses it to prop up Israel whenever the international consensus is that something must be done about the illegal settlements and the occupation in general.
Mr Spinkles
Mr
And now you Canadians are getting in on the action. Shame on you, and us.
Alceste
Vagabond
Your insistence on viewing rocket attacks from Gaza as aggression signaling genocidal intentions, rather than rebellion / retribution against a brutal and repressive occupation, clouds your judgment on this entire situation.
Alceste
Vagabond
And now you Canadians are getting in on the action. Shame on you, and us.
God, I know. Harper is so embarrassing. I don't even want to talk about it. Rest assured that apart from YmirGF and a few rural rednecks, nobody in Canada likes the man or agrees with his vision for the country. His election has more to do with a Centre-left majority split between three major competitors than it does with the feelings of Canadians in general.
Your insistence on maintaining that these goals are mutually exclusive reflects a remarkable naivete or a very ugly bias or both.
Alceste
Vagabond
Says the guy who seems to see anti-Semitism as the motive for most non-supportive comments on the subject of Israel.
(Edit: also please note that I didn't even say that.)
seeking4truth
Active Member
I am very sad that a people who experienced hatred and were forced into ghettos are now doing the same to Palestinians.
I recently visited Israel, Jerusalem and the West Bank and the difference in facilities and the standards of environment are a testimoney to the injustice and repression that fuels the response of the Palestinians. I can't imagine what it must be like in Gaza which is in reality a place under siege.
I recently visited Israel, Jerusalem and the West Bank and the difference in facilities and the standards of environment are a testimoney to the injustice and repression that fuels the response of the Palestinians. I can't imagine what it must be like in Gaza which is in reality a place under siege.
Heathen Hammer
Nope, you're still wrong
I agree with you :yes:
Harari Rajul
Member
unfortunately, this won't stymie the illegal activities of Israel...such as building settlements on Palestinian land...
UTK007
Spiritual Seeker
The U.N. giving the Palestinian Territories the new status of a non-member observer state is at best a symbolic gesture, and at worst nothing more than an empty statement. Its basically a publicity stunt. The politics surrounding Palestine have not changed. The Palestinian Territories does not have a unified government, and it doesnt even control its own borders.
Furthermore, this vote will not do anything to advance peace talks between the Palestinians and the Israelis.
Furthermore, this vote will not do anything to advance peace talks between the Palestinians and the Israelis.
Alceste
Vagabond
It does potentially open the door for Palestinians to press for an ICC trial for war crimes against them, and make it more difficult for Israel to argue that their disregard for the Geneva conventions is legal.
If it didn't matter, the US and Israel (and now Canada, to my everlasting embarrassment) would not have fought so hard against it.
seeking4truth
Active Member
It seems that Hamas and Fatah are also trying to work together to prepare for a more unified Palestinian position which, if they can do it, might help make the creation of Palestine more of a reality.
Flankerl
Well-Known Member
Oh look its the stuff that happens every few years.
PassionFruit53
Member
I have to say, I personally do not agree with this decision of the United Nations.
No country had ever recognized "Palestine" as a country.
Also, the Palestinians are guilty of so many terrorist attacks on innocent people.
Does Palestine care about the democracy, freedom, and human rights like in the UN Human Rights Declaration? All I can see is that they want to split Israel into two countries because of their religious belief.
UN should exist to promote peace between countries and not separatists' terror.
No country had ever recognized "Palestine" as a country.
Also, the Palestinians are guilty of so many terrorist attacks on innocent people.
Does Palestine care about the democracy, freedom, and human rights like in the UN Human Rights Declaration? All I can see is that they want to split Israel into two countries because of their religious belief.
UN should exist to promote peace between countries and not separatists' terror.
BirdseyeSwordfish
Member
Despite your support for Israel, you claim that you support Tibetan Independence, despite the fact that you claim Chinese nationality.
How do you explain that?
PassionFruit53
Member
Just because I am a Chinese does not mean I supported my country without thinking the consequence. Especially if they were wrong. Occupation and brutalization of peaceful Tibetan race for the last 50 years is clearly one great crime against humanity.
You obviously did not know the truth about what happened, that "Free Tibet" is not a separatism, it is a liberation. Because China invaded somewhere that was not their land, yet Tibetans used non-violent methods & never even raised a finger to hurt those who occupied their land despite the fact that 1.2 million people was killed by the Army.
China invaded and treated Tibet like it's colony, like white people in South Africa. Not liberalising, just torture and abuse in form of majority discriminated minority!
Now we compare to the Jewish vs. Arabic conflict. Israel originally was Jewish people's country but they let Arabic people live there. But did Arab people appreciate it? They just committed terror against Jewish people. A complete different situation from peaceful Tibetans who lost their country.
Last edited:
The claims about how traditional and natural the recognition of a Palestine people and a Palestine territory is are unfortunately very conflicting and passionate, so I have no idea of how true or how significant that statement ultimately is.
However, countries are such artificial constructs (at least here in South America) that I fail to see how it could possibly be an important fact, regardless of how true it may or may not be.
There is a sizeable Palestinian population in and just outside Israel. It has been so for at least a few decades now. Most of them are unarmed civilians, victims as opposed to terrorists. And in all that time they have been torn by armed conflict that they can't flee.
Those are the facts, and it seems to me that they are plenty reason enough to justify the creation of a Palestinian territory and representation. We have certainly recognized countries with far less of a reason to exist.
Please do not say that so casually. There are certainly dangerous Palestinian terrorists, but how representative are they of the people as a whole? And what are the causes of terrorism anyway?
One might as well judge the American or Israeli people out of the destructiveness of their interventions in Vietnam, Iraq or Palestine itself.
Like all countries, Palestine is a fiction, albeit a somewhat useful one. Not many people in any country are deeply involved with those concepts.
In any case, the United Nations are meant to be mainly a keeper and nurturer of those goals. Membership in it is a means to those ends, not a prize for virtue. If it turns out that Palestinians are particularly in need of them, then all the more reason to keep them involved.
The conflict and the dire realities in Israel, the West Bank and the Gaza Strip are very much an established reality. It is not like are proposing to create them.
Do you think the acknowledgement of Palestinian people's right to observe UN activities serves the second goal but not the first? How so?
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
Palestine is a 'fiction'? Since when? Are Palestinians a fiction? Who are they if they lived in a fictional place and called themselves Palestinians?
Caladan
Agnostic Pantheist
They have not been calling themselves Palestinians for a long time, it is a recent development. My grandmother was Jewish, but was called Palestinian as well. Both Jews and Arabs were listed as Palestinians before the term was harnessed for Palestinian Muslim nationalism.
Today nations around Israel crumble and are torn with sectarian violence, how useful is it to define a new Palestinian nation when the Palestinians are divided to two areas with opposing governments who's members shot each other in the streets a few short years ago?LuisDantas said: