Palestianian atheist arrested

[Meow Mix]

Why, aren't non-Muslims members of the public?

Good point; we do continually mention that the man who was arrested was a citizen himself. Seems though that freedom of speech is a popularity contest and people aren't allowed to criticize or share their opinions on things that too many people like... I guess? :sarcastic

 

[Meow Mix]

It occurred to me that some of the attitudes in this thread are the sort of thing that make us New Atheists tear our hair out. You take a certain subject, and if you call it religion, suddenly it becomes entitled to all kinds of protection that other things aren't, and other people can be put in jail for insulting it, because it's "divine," and when something is "divine" it's entitled to special protection, such that people who dare criticize it can be put in jail or burnt alive.

True, I recall asking whether it's acceptable to criticize a popular king if it's not acceptable to criticize a popular prophet and I think (I'd have to go back through the posts) it's supposedly acceptable to criticize a popular king but NOT a popular prophet.

I never got an answer to my MLK analogy. I really don't feel like it's a rational or defensible position to say we can protect free speech but prosecute "insulting" somehow.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

it is OK IMO it is too much but i am unsure if they are not trying to protect his life because he might be in danger out of prison

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Good point, I was thinking the same thing. He's probably safer in prison.

 

[kai]

If Muslims are going to strive for anything, then it's not going to be for your values but God willing for Islam and establishment of Islamic Shari'a. There is hope, isA.

wow Sahar, i didnt know you were that acquainted with my values.I underestimated you.

 

[kai]

Good point, I was thinking the same thing. He's probably safer in prison.

And thats a whole new ball game, I have read his blog and there's no way he should be in prison, what do we have here a Sharia that puts Muslims above all else? Muslims can claim Jesus is not divine? that any other belief system is false but woe betide you if you question Islam? what happened to there is no compulsion in Islam?

Thats the attempted strangulation of thought, the end of people weighing it up and becoming a Muslim because they believe, not because they are too scared to believe anything else.

what we have here is a situation where Lava, Sahar and others could express their views freely but we would be hunted down and imprisoned even if it was for our own safety from the mob.

I ask Lava and Sahar how can that possibly be right? i repeat there is no compulsion in Islam ? How can you try and subdue peoples very thoughts? Allah doesn't need such "protection" surely? People must be allowed to submit of their own free will or its not submitting at all, its compulsion.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

And thats a whole new ball game, I have read his blog and there's no way he should be in prison, what do we have here a Sharia that puts Muslims above all else? Muslims can claim Jesus is not divine? that any other belief system is false but woe betide you if you question Islam? what happened to there is no compulsion in Islam?

How did you read his blog? I thought it was all in Arabic. Where is the English translation?

 

[kai]

How did you read his blog? I thought it was all in Arabic. Where is the English translation?

Hi Mr Spinkles it has an english version

Why I left Islam

 

[Mr Spinkles]

Thanks.

So after reading his blog, I conclude that he is going to spend his life in prison for basically expressing his opinions and criticizing the religion of Islam. No one was forced to read his blog, it was merely available, and he didn't say anything that hasn't been said on RF.

 

[Sahar]

And thats a whole new ball game, I have read his blog and there's no way he should be in prison, what do we have here a Sharia that puts Muslims above all else? Muslims can claim Jesus is not divine? that any other belief system is false but woe betide you if you question Islam? what happened to there is no compulsion in Islam?

Thats the attempted strangulation of thought, the end of people weighing it up and becoming a Muslim because they believe, not because they are too scared to believe anything else.

what we have here is a situation where Lava, Sahar and others could express their views freely but we would be hunted down and imprisoned even if it was for our own safety from the mob.

I ask Lava and Sahar how can that possibly be right? i repeat there is no compulsion in Islam ? How can you try and subdue peoples very thoughts? Allah doesn't need such "protection" surely? People must be allowed to submit of their own free will or its not submitting at all, its compulsion.

It's compulsion of course. Either you become a Muslim or your head will be separated from the rest of your body. Thus it's not only strangulation of thought but it's also strangulation of the disbelievers' necks.

 

[kai]

It's compulsion of course. Either you become a Muslim or your head will be separated from the rest of your body. Thus it's not only strangulation of thought but it's also strangulation of the disbelievers' necks.

You are taking it to the extreme, but that is a natural progression from thought control because you have to back it up with a big stick.

Sahar you are a very intelligent woman and by now you must have read his blog , do you think that he should be arrested and punished for what he has written?


do you not consider punishment for being critical of Islam a method of compulsion ? to arrest non believers and imprison them certainly sends out a message its better to stay silent and pretend to be a Muslim and yet that is also a great sin is it not.


If its a crime then what crime ? is it blasphemy? Can you help me with any reference to Blasphemy in the Quran or Hadith?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

no, i am saying if basic human rights permits people to insult divine then basic human rights should change its name into BASIC WESTERN HUMAN RIGHTS because it does not answer needs of entire humanity, obviously. in other words it is not complete, not perfect, not for 'human'...of course for that you must accept Muslims as human as well. but, of course, don't try so hard

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I think it's worth remembering that "Basic Western Human Rights" are the product of Christian nations and cultures where, previously, things like denying that Jesus is God was against the law and could get you killed.

Do you want to go back to that? Do you want to live in a world where it's considered acceptable for denying the Trinity (i.e. to hold to the tenets of Islam) to be a crime?

Personally, I consider a number of what are AFAICT mainstream ideas in Islam to be terribly offensive. Should I get to dictate to you what parts of your faith you can and can't preach?

If your answer to these questions is "no", then why do you demand a double standard?

If it's unintentional, then it's still propaganja.

Just to add some levity to a very tense thread: this is the funniest typo I've seen in a long time.

 

[.lava]

I think it's worth remembering that "Basic Western Human Rights" are the product of Christian nations and cultures where, previously, things like denying that Jesus is God was against the law and could get you killed.

denying is your right. noone has to be on your path. for instance, i think noone would wonder if Palestinian Chrisitans deny Muhammad SAW. of course they deny him. and Muslims deny trinity. but they live together in the same place and as you see no Christians are in prison for not believing the same as Muslims. what i oppose here in whole of this thread is insult. i might deny trinity because i do not believe in trinity. but i don't insult whoever believes it or i don't mock the belief itself. if you guys don't see any difference between, i could not make you see i am afraid

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[.lava]

Yes, you and a billion other people. However, there are many more who don't.

....which is ordinary, expected and accepted. i do respect rights of an atheist not to believe in what i believe

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[kai]

denying is your right. noone has to be on your path. for instance, i think noone would wonder if Palestinian Chrisitans deny Muhammad SAW. of course they deny him. and Muslims deny trinity. but they live together in the same place and as you see no Christians are in prison for not believing the same as Muslims. what i oppose here in whole of this thread is insult. i might deny trinity because i do not believe in trinity. but i don't insult whoever believes it or i don't mock the belief itself. if you guys don't see any difference between, i could not make you see i am afraid

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Lava do you know of punishment for blasphemy in Quran or Hadith?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

denying is your right. noone has to be on your path. for instance, i think noone would wonder if Palestinian Chrisitans deny Muhammad SAW. of course they deny him. and Muslims deny trinity. but they live together in the same place and as you see no Christians are in prison for not believing the same as Muslims. what i oppose here in whole of this thread is insult. i might deny trinity because i do not believe in trinity. but i don't insult whoever believes it or i don't mock the belief itself. if you guys don't see any difference between, i could not make you see i am afraid

Stating that Jesus didn't die on the cross (a statement I've heard from Muslims here many times) insults Christianity as much as calling Muhammad "bloodthirsty" insults Islam.

 

[.lava]

Lava do you know of punishment for blasphemy in Quran or Hadith?

i would not take hadiths as my primary source for Islam since i have no doubt there are hundreds of fabricated hadiths.
i don't know. i haven't read anything about punishment for it yet. so i am unaware of any verse from Qur'an if there was any. if there is, i hope Muslims offer surah and verse number so that i could check it out

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[.lava]

Stating that Jesus didn't die on the cross (a statement I've heard from Muslims here many times) insults Christianity as much as calling Muhammad "bloodthirsty" insults Islam.

i don't think they are equal. saying Jesus SAW did not die on cross is maybe equal to say Mohammad SAW was an ordinary man and he was not a Prophet

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[9-10ths_Penguin]

i don't think they are equal. saying Jesus SAW did not die on cross is maybe equal to say Mohammad SAW was an ordinary man and he was not a Prophet

It implies that their God is "just some guy", and that his apostles are liars. That one claim is the equivalent of blaspheming God and slandering four prophets... five if you count Paul.

 

[.lava]

It implies that their God is "just some guy", and that his apostles are liars. That one claim is the equivalent of blaspheming God and slandering four prophets... five if you count Paul.

wow i have never met any Muslim who would say that. Jesus SAW was not just a some guy and his followers were actually saints except for the one who betrayaled God and Jesus for that matter

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[Autodidact]

It's compulsion of course. Either you become a Muslim or your head will be separated from the rest of your body. Thus it's not only strangulation of thought but it's also strangulation of the disbelievers' necks.

Apparently many Palestinian Muslims advocate just this. Which detracts somewhat from the humor of your post.