Palestinians under attack

[loverOfTruth]

My point -- which was clear -- is that the OP singles out one side of the story. The Palestinians are notorious for inciting violence (and they target civilians) as the Israelis are for responding with excessive force.

And the supporters of Palestinians, like our friend who wrote the OP, give a sob story that I find offensive.

Here's the process:

1) Palestinian militants OR civilians provoke Israel through acs of violence

2) Israel responds with violence

3) Palestinians whine about the consequences

4) Supporters of Palestine whine about the consequences, only focusing on the brutality of Israel while conveniently leaving out their part in the cycle of violence

I call it the "shoot and whine" strategy. Bottom line is if you don't want the bear to bite you, don't poke it in the eye. And for God's sake, don't ***** about it to everyone when you face consequences for your actions.

The violence is almost easier to tolerate than the incessant whining.

How convenient is your #1 ? Let's forget everything about what this is all about - the Occupation the real provocateur of all the problems. As long as people keep believing in the process you have listed, we'll never have a solution to this problem.

Let's continue to restrict an entire populations movement in a small open prison land and then restrict their access to natural resources, and then keep expanding the land grabs(settlements) and then let's keep believing that when they get desperate and respond (sometimes in ways that are not appropriate) that they are the ones who started all this and somehow by force one day it will all go away.

"No people on earth would tolerate a policy of military occupation and economic strangulation as the Palestinians have endured. " - from Palestine has a right to resist the occupation

Good Luck and Peace.

 

[Phil25]

And on what is your understanding of the Middle East based?

Middle Eastern History, Culture, Religion, Current Events etc.

 

[columbus]

The article How Israel should deal with Hamas is worth reading, not because it's without bias or flaw, but because of its author.

What Bar describes as the first strategy, "Let IDF win", is the scenario I asked about. He also describes it:

Across the Israeli right-wing spectrum, we are hearing calls to toughen Israel’s deterrence capacity against Hamas, and to hit them hard. Hit them more, hit them harder, hit them stronger, hit Gaza collectively; hit everyone and everywhere.

Given the political landscape, that seems the strategy most likely to win out. The second sounds like what has already been tried, and the third sounds hopelessly naive. Of course, I would love it if 3 gained enough traction to be implemented.

Seriously folks, it is a good article.



In another thread you argued that only Hamas, Fatah, or IDF could possibly run Gaza. A year ago that would have been common sense. But a year ago nobody would have predicted the rise of a Muslim "army of God" that could simultaneously threaten Assad and Maliki. I see Isis or whatever they call themselves these days, as a game changer.

What better strategy could Bahgdadi have than getting control of the Syrian border with Israel and Gaza, then launching an Intifada?

Call me a cynic or uninformed or whatever, but give me a reason to think Isis cannot draw the USA into a war on Isis' terms.

Tom

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I see Isis or whatever they call themselves these days, as a game changer.

Yes, you do.

 

[columbus]

Yes, you do.

You are just a fountain of brilliant analysis.

Tom

 

[MD]

Yes, you do.

Actually ISIS is becoming more and more of a game changer. Syrian rebel groups are rallying behind it, just yesterday thousands of syrian rebels defected to ISIS. ISIS is actively trying to recruit south Asians now, where 500 million Sunni live.

As the death toll in Gaza continues to rise, it legitimises groups like ISIS in the eyes of the Muslim world.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

You are just a fountain of brilliant analysis.

I know my limitations. Do you?

 

[columbus]

I know my limitations. Do you?

OK you don't have an answer.

I asked you what country you live in and what you did to stop the US invasion of Iraq. You've never answered.

I live in the USA and I did everything I knew to do, short of the ME method of political assassination. I correctly predicted the short term outcome of that invasion. Hatred of the USA, civil war, and Iranian ascendancy.

I didn't need the CIA or spy satellites. I just talked to people familiar with the place. They are not hard to find. I didn't even have the internet back then. Now I do.

You say super smart things like



Tom

 

[CMike]

How convenient is your #1 ? Let's forget everything about what this is all about - the Occupation the real provocateur of all the problems. As long as people keep believing in the process you have listed, we'll never have a solution to this problem.

Let's continue to restrict an entire populations movement in a small open prison land and then restrict their access to natural resources, and then keep expanding the land grabs(settlements) and then let's keep believing that when they get desperate and respond (sometimes in ways that are not appropriate) that they are the ones who started all this and somehow by force one day it will all go away.

"No people on earth would tolerate a policy of military occupation and economic strangulation as the Palestinians have endured. " - from Palestine has a right to resist the occupation

Good Luck and Peace.

When they (the Palestinian government) stops launching terrorist attacks to kill as many civilians as possible, and hide behind their children and underneath their women's skirts then we don't need checkpoints.

However, since they haven't stopped and their elected government has vowed to destroy all of Israel then it's needed.

Even now they intentionally attack from civilian populations knowing that Israel cares more about the their children than they do.

Also there never was a muslim state known as palestine.

It was part of the Ottoman Empire

Then it became a british colony.

4/5 of this Palestine was made part of Jordan.

Of course there is not call to have a "Palestinian" state within Jordan.

Why not? That is where Palestine actually is.

 

[Revoltingest]

When they (the Palestinian government) stops launching terrorist attacks to kill as many civilians as possible, and hide behind their children and underneath their women's skirts then we don't need checkpoints.
However, since they haven't stopped and their elected government has vowed to destroy all of Israel then it's needed.
Even now they intentionally attack from civilian populations knowing that Israel cares more about the their children than they do.

It's easy to see the other side as having shortcomings which make their concerns invalid.
But news items like this illustrate how that sword cuts both ways....
Thousands abandon their Gaza homes
To blow up people's homes is about mass punishment, not conventional military objectives.

 

[CMike]

It's easy to see the other side as having shortcomings which make their concerns invalid.
But news items like this illustrate how that sword cuts both ways....
Thousands abandon their Gaza homes
To blow up people's homes is about mass punishment, not conventional military objectives.

They can blame their leadership whom intentionally shoot rockets from populated areas using civilians as human shields.

 

[Revoltingest]

They can blame their leadership whom intentionally shoot rockets from populated areas using civilians as human shields.

As long as Israelis & their fans see every single Palestinian as culpable &
deserving of punishment, there will be no progress. This is because Israel
cannot wipe them out, so there will always be many survivors, & they will
have deep grudges. Many will handle resort to violence. The current course
is a recipe for continuing the status quo.

 

[CMike]

They don't. That's why they use their own civilians as human shields.

It works.

 

[Revoltingest]

They don't. That's why they use their own civilians as human shields.
It works.

It works as well as mass punishment.
And so it all continues.
I just wish we'd stop funding it.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Maybe the problem is that the Quran is a medieval document long left in the dust.

Modern people would be better off viewing the Quran as a beautiful antique and putting It on a shelf in storage, then rolling up their sleeves and getting something done.

Tom

I said something stupid once.

 

[CMike]

It works as well as mass punishment.
And so it all continues.
I just wish we'd stop funding it.

There is no "mass punishment".

There own government put their civilians intentionally near their weapons as human shields so they can fire rockets with impunity on Israel cities.

Then if a civilian is killed they blame Israel, even though it's them who put them in danger to begin with.

Israel has aborted numerous strikes in order to protect civilians. Israel cares more about the arab civilians than the arabs do.

As Netanyahu stated

Israel uses it's weapons to protect it's civilians.

Hamses uses their civilians to protect their weapons.

Israel is the only democracy in the middle east.

The arab leadership could stop this very easily. All they have to do is stop firing rockets into Israeli cities.

 

[CMike]

It's easy to see the other side as having shortcomings which make their concerns invalid.
But news items like this illustrate how that sword cuts both ways....
Thousands abandon their Gaza homes
To blow up people's homes is about mass punishment, not conventional military objectives.

That's because their political leaders make the homes military objectives by using these homes as place to launch their rockets from.

 

[loverOfTruth]

When they (the Palestinian government) stops launching terrorist attacks to kill as many civilians as possible, and hide behind their children and underneath their women's skirts then we don't need checkpoints.

However, since they haven't stopped and their elected government has vowed to destroy all of Israel then it's needed.

Even now they intentionally attack from civilian populations knowing that Israel cares more about the their children than they do.

Also there never was a muslim state known as palestine.

It was part of the Ottoman Empire

Then it became a british colony.

4/5 of this Palestine was made part of Jordan.

Of course there is not call to have a "Palestinian" state within Jordan.

Why not? That is where Palestine actually is.

Jordanian essentially is full of Palestinian people ... they were made part of the land and no one is kicking them out or oppressing them... no comparison there. I have discussed the issue about how the Zionists started taking the Palestinian lands in detail in a previous thread...you can follow my posts from here :
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/3163361-post272.html

Peace.

 

[YmirGF]

Jordanian essentially is full of Palestinian people ... they were made part of the land and no one is kicking them out or oppressing them... no comparison there. I have discussed the issue about how the Zionists started taking the Palestinian lands in detail in a previous thread...you can follow my posts from here :
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/3163361-post272.html

Peace.

Hypothetically speaking, had the Israelis lost the war in 1948, what do you think the response from the Allied forces would have been?

 

[CMike]

Jordanian essentially is full of Palestinian people ... they were made part of the land and no one is kicking them out or oppressing them... no comparison there. I have discussed the issue about how the Zionists started taking the Palestinian lands in detail in a previous thread...you can follow my posts from here :
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/3163361-post272.html

Peace.

You make an excellent point.

4/5 of the actual palestine under british rule was in Jordan.

However there is no call to have a palestinian state in Jordan. Why not?

There are 22 arab countries and one small jewish state.

Also, there never was an independent muslim palestinian estate.

It was a british colony. Before that it was part of the Ottoman Empre.

Here is an excellent summary of the conflict.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EDW88CBo-8