"Parents who do not vaccinate their children should go to jail"

[Skwim]

Only if the question of whether to vaccinate or not is a religious issue.

I thought that was implied in my question. This being the case, how long would one hang onto it in face of its dire consequences. That is, is there a point in an epidemic where the necessity of vaccination trumps one's religious opposition to it?

 

[psychoslice]

What I don't understand is why did so many get the measles when most would have been vac. ?.

 

[Skwim]

What I don't understand is why did so many get the measles when most would have been vac. ?.

When and where are you talking about?

 

[psychoslice]

When and where are you talking about?

Well anywhere really, if most are vac. then wouldn't only the one who isn't would get measles or whatever ?.

 

[Ingledsva]

What I don't understand is why did so many get the measles when most would have been vac. ?.

Yep, plus they said on the news that some of those getting it - HAD - , been vaccinated.

I haven't watched it on the news lately, but last I watched, they didn't know where it started.

Perhaps they need to look at vaccinated children, - that got measles from the vaccine, - and then gave it to the unvaccinated?

*

 

[psychoslice]

Yep, plus they said on the news that some of those getting it - HAD - , been vaccinated.

I haven't watched it on the news lately, but last I watched, they didn't know where it started.

Perhaps they need to look at vaccinated children, - that got measles from the vaccine, - and then gave it to the unvaccinated?

*

Oh yea, I agree, but I usually keep it quite, people seem to jump up and down , and carry on lol.

 

[Skwim]

Well anywhere really, if most are vac. then wouldn't only the one who isn't would get measles or whatever ?.

Unfortunately, In many places "most" or at least "many" people are not vaccinated. And even where a population has a high immunization index, such as the USA, unvaccinated foreigners are always a threat. Measles was eliminated in the USA 14 years ago but the Amish in the USA---who don't believe in vaccinations---have had a measles outbreak of sorts (around 138 cases), which has been attributed to their traveling to conduct faith-based work abroad. In fact, ninety-seven percent of the cases that have cropped up in the USA since 2000 have come from unvaccinated Americans who contracted the infection abroad. Had these travelers been vaccinated they wouldn't have gotten the disease and brought it back with them.
source

 

[Bunyip]

I do not support the anti-vac movement, but I do think mm it is important to point out that the health authorities in many countiries have done a very poor job of presenting the benefits of vaccination to the public. Things are improving - but I do believe that much of the paranoia is a consequence of a systemic failure to make good vaccination advice and information available. When my son was born I asked for data on the possible consequences of vaccinations at the hospital, so that I could make an informed decision. I was given a pamphlet with a pic of a teddy bear covered in spots, and inside a vaccinated teddy bear with no spots. I asked for more adult level info, such as the number of bad reactions and the response was basically 'We don't have any - do you want the jabs or not?' I got the same reaction from my family Doc a few months later. People get scared when they feel they can not make an informed decision.

 

[Quintessence]

And I never said you seemed to argue anything; however, you did contest my question, saying it was the wrong one to ask: " the question isn't whether or not someone's beliefs, religious . . ."

I see you deleted a rather important part of that sentence:

To me, the question isn't whether or not someone's beliefs, religious or otherwise, are a justification to opt out of vaccines.

You are not asking the wrong question. It is the wrong question to me.

But just in case you still think it is, how about answering my question,

"How many (percent, if you wish) cases of a malady affecting society should be tolerated before the government steps in and requires that everyone "subject themselves to some particular medical treatment" in order to stop it? 10%? 25%? 50%? 75%? 95%? Or, is no number justified?​

I'm not interested in answering the question. Sorry. What I think about this issue is irrelevant considering I'm not on a risk analysis board that manages global diseases. That, and I'm a little annoyed that you're trying to make the issue about how you see it instead of respecting or asking questions about how I see it.

 

[Skwim]

I see you deleted a rather important part of that sentence:



You are not asking the wrong question. It is the wrong question to me.



I'm not interested in answering the question. Sorry. What I think about this issue is irrelevant considering I'm not on a risk analysis board that manages global diseases. That, and I'm a little annoyed that you're trying to make the issue about how you see it instead of respecting or asking questions about how I see it.

My mistake then in thinking that because you posted your opinion in a discussion forum that it was fodder for discussion---kind of the give-and-take that makes up discussions. Perhaps in the future when making a post in a discussion forum, but don't care to discuss it, you let us know.

 

[averageJOE]

That said, what I aim to do is prompt us to consider the big picture. We should recognize that if we force everyone to be vaccinated, we are basically giving our government the authority to force a medical treatment on its people if it is deemed to be for the greater good. I am not suggesting that endowing governments with this level of power is good or bad. That's a question for you to ask yourself and answer for yourself. Again, what I aim to do here is not "moralizing," it's to get us to think deeper about this.

I also know two kids that WERE harmed by vaccines. Both cases followed the second set of baby vaccinations.

I believe the problem is that these shots are given too early, before their immune systems are fully formed. I believe vaccinations would be safer, long term, if they waited until just before a child started school. No I infant vaccinations.

IMMUNE: resistant to a particular infection or toxin owing to the presence of specific antibodies or sensitized white blood cells.

*

I am by no means against vaccinations. I do believe in them. But the quotes above pretty much narrows down how I view them in general. You can always vaccinate later in life, but you can never UNvanccinate. I guess I can say that I don't agree with the "one size fits all" approach to vaccinations that's in place. Infants are vaccinated with the assumption that they will not harm them. And the people who are injured from the vaccinations (and there are) are injured for life.

 

[esmith]

Measles were almost eradicated in 2000 in the US, polio was eradicate in the US in 1979 and almost on the verge of worldwide eradication, the last naturally-occurring case of smallpox in the world was contracted in October, 1977. There are many more deadly virus that are on the verge of eradication world wide. Yet it appears that here in the US, thanks in part to Jenny McCarthy and her biggest supporter Oprah Winfrey, there seems to be a cult of anti-vaxxers. that are threatening the health of our children and many adults. Now I won't go as far as saying that these anti-vaxxers should be punished; However, their children should not be allowed to attend schools where there is a possibility that they will spread diseases. However, as it was the case in Disney Land, you can't keep them away from the public. No I'm not saying that vaccines are totally safe, there is always the possibility that something could go wrong; but when you are comparing the possible harm to many to the possible harm to one......


Jenny McCarthy: anti-vaxxer, public menace - LA Times

 

[Iti oj]

Measles were almost eradicated in 2000 in the US, polio was eradicate in the US in 1979 and almost on the verge of worldwide eradication, the last naturally-occurring case of smallpox in the world was contracted in October, 1977. There are many more deadly virus that are on the verge of eradication world wide. Yet it appears that here in the US, thanks in part to Jenny McCarthy and her biggest supporter Oprah Winfrey, there seems to be a cult of anti-vaxxers. that are threatening the health of our children and many adults. Now I won't go as far as saying that these anti-vaxxers should be punished; However, their children should not be allowed to attend schools where there is a possibility that they will spread diseases. However, as it was the case in Disney Land, you can't keep them away from the public. No I'm not saying that vaccines are totally safe, there is always the possibility that something could go wrong; but when you are comparing the possible harm to many to the possible harm to one......


Jenny McCarthy: anti-vaxxer, public menace - LA Times

A rare treat we.are on the same page.

 

[dgirl1986]

I think they should go to jail if their child dies as a result of willing ignorance. However, I do not think they should be jailed for not vaccinating them. They should be fined in my opinion.

 

[dust1n]

No tax benefits for families or churches with kids who are not immunized against the most essential diseases.

 

[ChristineES]

Put parents in jail for not vaccinating? There isn't even enough room in jails for people robbing convience stores and other real crimes. If there is a penalty for not vacciinating, I think we can think of something better than jail.

 

[Iti oj]

Put parents in jail for not vaccinating? There isn't even enough room in jails for people robbing convience stores and other real crimes. If there is a penalty for not vacciinating, I think we can think of something better than jail.

The majority of people in jail are for non violent drug possession charges

 

[ChristineES]

The majority of people in jail are for non violent drug possession charges

Same thing. Selling illicit drugs can cause extreme violence and murder. I still think they can come up with a better solution than putting parents in jail for not vaccinating. I don't know about other states, but here in California, they won't let children into school unless they have been vaccinated, for instance. That won't help with home-schooled kids, but most kids go to school. And these epidemics are spread mostly in schools.

 

[dawny0826]

(RNS) The entirely preventable California measles outbreak has now sickened more than 70 people. With perhaps hundreds more exposed, the outbreak will likely continue.

As the disease spreads, experts will debate how we respond and what to do about the anti-vaccine movement that’s partly to blame for this mess. Likely, all we’ll agree on is better outreach to parents.

That’s not enough. Parents who do not vaccinate their children should go to jail.

Anti-vaxxers often claim the right not to put “poison” in their children’s bodies. That is ludicrous. A mountain of data has demonstrated that vaccines are safe and effective. Insisting otherwise is akin to believing that the moon landing was faked.

Anti-vaccine parents are turning their children into little walking time bombs. They ought to be charged for endangering their children and others.
source

The vaccination exemption rate among kindergarten students in California — cases in which parents said they did not want their children vaccinated for health, religious or other reasons — was 3.1 percent in the 2013-14 school year, according to the C.D.C. report.
source


An anti-vaccine movement among wealthy people has had significant impact on parents claiming a waiver from having their school-age children vaccinated. Some parents oppose vaccinations for religious reasons, others because they distrust government-mandated health solutions.
source​

My question: Is religious belief a justifiable reason to opt out of vaccinations?

The first source that you've provided reads like a blog post. I don't see where the author has substantiated their view point with evidence.

In the Commonwealth of Virginia, students are not permitted into public schools, private schools or day cares if they have not met the vaccination requirements by age. A religious exception can be sought, but the State Health Commissioner can order a child out of school if an epidemic presents that would place such child at risk.

http://www.vdh.state.va.us/epidemiology/immunization/documents/SchoolRegulations/cre_1.pdf

You haven't really provided anything to evidence how significant of an impact religious beliefs have on decisions to vaccinate. I gather that greater efforts to educate coupled with sensible legislation geared to keeping kids safe from preventable illness in schools will yield positive impact.

I believe that parents should have the right to opt-out of vaccinations for religious reasons. The State should exclude children from public school if significant risk presents.

What happened in CA is hardly of epidemic proportion, at least not in my opinion.

 

[Skwim]

The first source that you've provided reads like a blog post. I don't see where the author has substantiated their view point with evidence.

Usually articles in USA Today don't provide them, so I wouldn't be looking for them if I were you. .

You haven't really provided anything to evidence how significant of an impact religious beliefs have on decisions to vaccinate.

Can't fool you can I . . . . . . of course this may be because I wasn't trying to provided anything "to evidence how significant of an impact religious beliefs have on decisions to vaccinate; only that they do. But if you're looking for significance you might want to note the 138 cases of measles that broke out in the Amish community of Ohio because they opted out of vaccinations.

Here's a story on it.