Part of being Privileged is not having to think about being Privileged

[ignition]

Wow..

 

[Father Heathen]

problem?

I don't know, maybe it's just me, but those comments seemed a tad insensitive, and a bit ironic considering the subject matter of the thread.

 

[Sunstone]

I don't know, maybe it's just me, but those comments seemed a tad insensitive, and a bit ironic considering the subject matter of the thread.

I can see how the comments might be considered a bit insensitive, FH, but for the record, I took no offense at them. Maybe I'm just as thick, though, as my ex-wives always said I was.

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

I don't know, maybe it's just me, but those comments seemed a tad insensitive, and a bit ironic considering the subject matter of the thread.

I was joking hence the silly face (I thought that would of made it obvious)
I already knew Sunstone was an older man (not his exact age) but I knew.

 

[Sunstone]

I was joking hence the silly face (I thought that would of made it obvious)

I understood you to be joking, by the way.

I already knew Sunstone was an older man (not his exact age) but I knew.

It was the simple fact I enjoy fine scotch and even finer women, wasn't it? You just don't see those traits all that often in younger men, you know. (<----------most self-deluded idiot on RF).

 

[ignition]

I don't know, maybe it's just me, but those comments seemed a tad insensitive, and a bit ironic considering the subject matter of the thread.

I didn't see it that way at all, I apologize if I offended anyone though. Just said the first thing that came. Most of my posts aren't to be taken seriously anyway haha unless it's on a serious topic or debate. I make a lot off hand comments and jokes.

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

I understood you to be joking, by the way.



It was the simple fact I enjoy fine scotch and even finer women, wasn't it? You just don't see those traits all that often in younger men, you know. (<----------most self-deluded idiot on RF).

So you think I'm a fine woman, yeah?

 

[Sunstone]

So you think I'm a fine woman, yeah?

I adamantly stand by my favorable opinion of you as an exceedingly knowledgeable connoisseur of fine scotch and even finer women!

 

[dawny0826]

I've heard it said that part of being privileged is not having to think about how you privileged.

Not every white person can relate to this concept. White people are amongst the poor, desolate, undereducated, exploited, abused and neglected too.

If you're White, you don't need to think about -- and you can even deny without consequence to you -- that 80% of the police stop and searches in your neighborhood happen to young men of color.

I find this laughable, because in some parts of my community, at certain hours of the day or night, the majority of people in their cars WOULD be people of color and mostly men.

Greater crime statistics are found in those areas in my city where you have greater pockets of low-income. Yes, the truth is in these areas, the racial demographic is predomindately african american. Is this statement racist or does is suggest white privilige on my part? It's truth.

In these pockets of my community, there are people who will not do what they need to do to better their circumstances and as a result their neighborhoods continue to deterioriate and they continue to fall apart themselves. Whose fault is that?

If you walk into a grocery store drunk and reeking of urine because you chose not to bathe, why wouldn't you be looked at differently? And if the white woman in front of you in line happens to be treated with better customer service, have you ever thought that the reason that you aren't being treated with the same respect isn't because you're black but because you reek of alcohol and have urine running down your leg?

In my community, there does exist racism AGAINST white people. News flash, people! It exists. I went to school with people who lived in better neighborhoods than I did and were able to seize better academic opportunities because they were black. And they'd call me a "stupid white *****" if I accidentally looked at them on the bus.

It seems that there are few, if any, negative consequences to being ignorant of your own privileged position in society.

Or are there? What do you think?

And then there are some of us who live in different types of communities, where the "underprivileged" have access.

Don't tell me that I'm receiving anything special for being white. For crying out loud, I'm working my *** off and the woman at the check out counter is often just as ****** to me as the next guy.

Inequality and racism absolutely exists. But, I don't think that there's a one size fits all for every type of community. Perception, personal experience, and a community's demographics, history, etc. should be considered when you approach this topic.

 

[Alceste]

No comment.

But seriously, do you think the last 15 years of your lack of income comes down to just sexism? You don't feel there's any other paths or decisions you could have made over the last decade and a half to make more money if you wanted to? I've known dozens of women who make a hell of a lot more money than I do, and I'm pretty sure most of them have probably experienced sexism at one time or another.

I feel like you haven't been reading my posts. YES, obviously I could have tried going into other high paid fields. All the ones that interested me are dominated by men, and would require spending another huge sum of money on an education to qualify. Given that the FIRST time I spent tens of thousands of dollars on an education to access male-dominated work I was permanently blacklisted from all unionized film work for "being a tease", how do you think I felt about doing the EXACT SAME THING all over again by going into architecture, engineering or computer programming?

I didn't ask to be a trail blazer. It sucks. I never want to do it again. I was traumatized by it. I know that makes no sense to you because you have never experienced such outrageous treatment yourself, but if you had, you may have reacted exactly as I did. Since you - being a white, heterosexual male - haven't ever been treated that way, you don't have any idea what is or isn't a reasonable reaction. It's awfully simple-minded to just assume I'm "choosing" to be angry about nothing. I'm legitimately angry because sexism destroyed my film career, and completely undermined my enthusiasm for trying to enter any other male-dominated career.

I am having trouble understanding how you don't get that. If you were fired tomorrow just for being a guy - not only fired but told you may NEVER WORK AGAIN in your current field, just because you're a guy - would you be "offended" or wouldn't you?

 

[Alceste]

Some years ago, one of my brothers advised me to "consider the source" of any insults I received. To some great extent, I then took his advice and that lead me to the recognition that, not all, but most insults have more to do with who wields them than they have to do with their target.

However, that lesson by itself was not enough for me. I still found myself routinely offended by people -- even people I knew to be idiots.

What has helped me control my emotions even more than that has been the knowledge of what it does to me to take offense at something. I discovered what it does to me through meditation. So, nowadays, when I take offense, I am quick to see what it does to me. And once I see that, the feelings of offense are very likely to evaporate. The technique or approach is not perfect, but I'd guess it's around 80% or 90% effective in my case. But that's just what works for me. I don't know if it will work for others.

I don't presume to speak for Kilgore, but it seems to me that I have a moment of offense, quickly followed by an insight into what that's doing to me, and then the evaporation of the offense. The whole process takes just seconds, and sometimes it seems almost instantaneous. But maybe that's just me, and other people's mileage varies.

I wonder whether it really is impossible to never be offended? From what little I've read of people like the Buddha (not just people as famous as the Buddha, but read of many lesser known individuals who were somewhat like him), it is indeed possible for some people to never be offended. And I'm fairly sure you don't even need to be "enlightened" for that to be the case with you.

As for whether it's productive to react negatively to someone's comments, I think that goes without a doubt. But I don't believe one needs to take personal offense to come up with a negative criticism or a negative response to someone's comments.

Thanks for the pro tips on how straight white men cope with their struggle to gain respect and succeed in a straight, white, male world.

Got anything for the rest of us?

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

I feel like you haven't been reading my posts. YES, obviously I could have tried going into other high paid fields. All the ones that interested me are dominated by men, and would require spending another huge sum of money on an education to qualify. Given that the FIRST time I spent tens of thousands of dollars on an education to access male-dominated work I was permanently blacklisted from all unionized film work for "being a tease", how do you think I felt about doing the EXACT SAME THING all over again by going into architecture, engineering or computer programming?

I didn't ask to be a trail blazer. It sucks. I never want to do it again. I was traumatized by it. I know that makes no sense to you because you have never experienced such outrageous treatment yourself, but if you had, you may have reacted exactly as I did. Since you - being a white, heterosexual male - haven't ever been treated that way, you don't have any idea what is or isn't a reasonable reaction. It's awfully simple-minded to just assume I'm "choosing" to be angry about nothing. I'm legitimately angry because sexism destroyed my film career, and completely undermined my enthusiasm for trying to enter any other male-dominated career.

I am having trouble understanding how you don't get that. If you were fired tomorrow just for being a guy - not only fired but told you may NEVER WORK AGAIN in your current field, just because you're a guy - would you be "offended" or wouldn't you?

My mum told me she was fired from a job once when she was 19, because her boss (a white guy) had a mixed raced fetish and my mum wouldn't allow him to feel her up.

 

[Alceste]

My mum told me she was fired from a job once when she was 19, because her boss (a white guy) had a mixed raced fetish and my mum wouldn't allow him to feel her up.

Yeah, sounds familiar. I was the only woman on the crew and I was sexually harassed pretty much constantly, which I dealt with in a shoulder-punchy, hyuck-hyuck, good natured way, treating it all as some kind of comeraderie team building ribbing or whatever. One guy asked me to suck him off behind the trucks and I jokingly said "Sure, be there in five" (laughing), thinking he couldn't possibly be serious. After that he was kind of nasty to me. I expect he might be where the accusation of me being a "tease" came from, but who knows? All the discussion of whether to allow me to work happened behind closed doors and I was not invited to defend myself. They called me in a couple years later claiming they were trying to "clean up" the union and wanted to give me a chance to clear my name. So I went in, and the guy said "there's nothing on file about any wrongdoing - just letters from you in your own defense" I was all "Isn't that a GOOD thing?" He said no, somebody must have "tampered" with my file and taken out all the complaints that he assumed must have been there. Some clean-up job!

I do still work in indie films and teach film-making for kids, etc. but DAMN I miss the money. Don't miss the sexual harassment though.

 

[Sunstone]

Thanks for the pro tips on how straight white men cope with their struggle to gain respect and succeed in a straight, white, male world.

Got anything for the rest of us?

With respect, Alceste, I think you're comments are unfair for a couple of reasons, but perhaps mainly in so far as they might imply that I intended a criticism of anyone who takes offense at being insulted or discriminated against. I don't believe I did. As far as I'm concerned, it is a matter for the individual to decide for his or herself whether or not to take offense at someone's insults, etc. I was merely pointing out that in my case, I've noticed that taking offense has negative consequences to me, and that noticing that has reduced the length and depth of the offense I take. That seems to me pretty far from saying that everyone should or ought to be like me.

 

[ignition]

My mum told me she was fired from a job once when she was 19, because her boss (a white guy) had a mixed raced fetish and my mum wouldn't allow him to feel her up.

I'm mixed race as well. I personally think that mixed race black/white people are the best looking on the planet. By "feel her up" do you mean just touching the bum? Happened to me quite a few times, with a couple of women managers.

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

Yeah, sounds familiar. I was the only woman on the crew and I was sexually harassed pretty much constantly, which I dealt with in a shoulder-punchy, hyuck-hyuck, good natured way, treating it all as some kind of comeraderie team building ribbing or whatever. One guy asked me to suck him off behind the trucks and I jokingly said "Sure, be there in five" (laughing), thinking he couldn't possibly be serious. After that he was kind of nasty to me. I expect he might be where the accusation of me being a "tease" came from, but who knows? All the discussion of whether to allow me to work happened behind closed doors and I was not invited to defend myself. They called me in a couple years later claiming they were trying to "clean up" the union and wanted to give me a chance to clear my name. So I went in, and the guy said "there's nothing on file about any wrongdoing - just letters from you in your own defense" I was all "Isn't that a GOOD thing?" He said no, somebody must have "tampered" with my file and taken out all the complaints that he assumed must have been there. Some clean-up job!

I do still work in indie films and teach film-making for kids, etc. but DAMN I miss the money. Don't miss the sexual harassment though.

Yeah, my mum wasn't the only woman just the "type" that her boss targeted.
It sucks that you lost a job you love as well.
I'm lucky that no one could really get away with that where I work because we represent charity and have to uphold an ethical image, the money isn't nearly as good though, but I can be myself and wear what I want that's the plus side.

 

[Sunstone]

My mum told me she was fired from a job once when she was 19, because her boss (a white guy) had a mixed raced fetish and my mum wouldn't allow him to feel her up.

Horrorble, I learned when I was in my early twenties of a secret that my mom had kept from my brothers and me all the while we were growing up. I didn't learn the secret from her, but from one of her best friends.

You see, my mother was the Chief Executive Officer of a small to mid-sized corporation. Her position would have normally made for a comfortable living. But my brothers and I grew up below the Federal poverty line for a family of four. As you might imagine, we experienced several hardships as a result of that. In fact, my younger brother was somewhat traumatized by the experience, and I and my older brother were both greatly influenced by it.

To get to the point, only when I was in my early twenties did I find out the reason for it. Our mother had been told by the chairman of her board, who was something of a misogynist, that, if she were to receive a salary comparable to what a man in her position might demand, then he (the chairman) would be forced by political considerations to give her job to the first man who came along saying "he had a better claim to the job than she did by virtue of the fact she was doing men's work".

Consequently, mom was forced to either find a better position for herself (and in that small town, there simply were none -- it would have meant moving away from family and friends) or toe the line and accept what was offered to her.

So far as I know, that was the sole reason I grew up in poverty.

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

I'm mixed race as well. I personally think that mixed race black/white people are the best looking on the planet. By "feel her up" do you mean just touching the bum? Happened to me quite a few times, with a couple of women managers.

I absolutely hate it when mixed race people THINK they are the best looking on the planet. My mum isn't black/white she is black/arab. Anyway I don't feel comfortable explaining what happened to my mum with you.

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

Horrorble, I learned when I was in my early twenties of a secret that my mom had kept from my brothers and me all the while we were growing up. I didn't learn the secret from her, but from one of her best friends.

You see, my mother was the Chief Executive Officer of a small to mid-sized corporation. Her position would have normally made for a comfortable living. But my brothers and I grew up below the Federal poverty line for a family of four. As you might imagine, we experienced several hardships as a result of that. In fact, my younger brother was somewhat traumatized by the experience, and I and my older brother were both greatly influenced by it.

To get to the point, only when I was in my early twenties did I find out the reason for it. Our mother had been told by the chairman of her board, who was something of a misogynist, that, if she were to receive a salary comparable to what a man in her position might demand, then he (the chairman) would be forced by political considerations to give her job to the first man who came along saying "he had a better claim to the job than she did by virtue of the fact she was doing men's work".

Consequently, mom was forced to either find a better position for herself (and in that small town, there simply were none -- it would have meant moving away from family and friends) or toe the line and accept what was offered to her.

So far as I know, that was the sole reason I grew up in poverty.

That is very sad, as we can see women have similar experiences.

 

[ignition]

I absolutely hate it when mixed race people THINK they are the best looking on the planet. My mum isn't black/white she is black/arab. Anyway I don't feel comfortable explaining what happened to my mum with you.

Right ok...cool. You have arab blood. I'm half arab as well.