Pastor Kicked Out by His Congregation Over Transphobic Church Sign

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Keeping the answer as before. Humans should not change the religious texts to fit human beings, Human beings should make the change within them self to more adapt the teaching.

That there are human beings who fall for the immoral lifestyle is not the religions fault, it is the lack of insight to what is right or wrong accoding to spiritual life. The people who are priest or pastors or other title within the religions are also falling for the "presure" of the moral failing.

This was a Presbyterian church. In Presbyterian churches, the church is governed by a council of elders (presbyters). The pastor answers to this council and doesn't have the authority to teach things that are contrary to the position of the council.

In going against his church council, this pastor violated a fundamental tenet of his faith tradition. Don't forget that part of this.

 

[Spirit of Light]

This was a Presbyterian church. In Presbyterian churches, the church is governed by a council of elders (presbyters). The pastor answers to this council and doesn't have the authority to teach things that are contrary to the position of the council.

In going against his church council, this pastor violated a fundamental tenet of his faith tradition. Don't forget that part of this.

Can not judge someone i do not know. Can not judge out from just a tiny story

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Can not judge someone i do not know. Can not judge out from just a tiny story

... despite all the judging you've been doing in the thread so far.

 

[Spirit of Light]

... despite all the judging you've been doing in the thread so far.

what form of judgment do you mean has been done in the answers?

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

Keeping the answer as before. Humans should not change the religious texts to fit human beings, Human beings should make the change within them self to more adapt the teaching.

That there are human beings who fall for the immoral lifestyle is not the religions fault, it is the lack of insight to what is right or wrong accoding to spiritual life. The people who are priest or pastors or other title within the religions are also falling for the "presure" of the moral failing.

Then my prediction is that religions will slowly begin to fail their adherents, will become less and less relevant over time, and will be shown to have been more and more ignorant all along. Oh wait... this has already been happening. Guess I can't claim to be psychic after all.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Then my prediction is that religions will slowly begin to fail their adherents, will become less and less relevant over time, and will be shown to have been more and more ignorant all along. Oh wait... this has already been happening. Guess I can't claim to be psychic after all.

What has happen is moral decline in human beings. That is why so many reject religious view and spirituality.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

What has happen is moral decline in human beings. That is why so many reject religious view and spirituality.

It's funny you see it this way. All I have born witness to is morality in flux, and more and more pointing in correct directions. Morality being honed and shaped, and changes being made to attempt to get us to a better place.

Things like abolishing slavery, attempting to legislate for equal rights for many minorities, more open communication about various detrimental aspects of human behavior, more push for acceptance of various human personality types and dispositions (like gay/lesbian/trans), more attempting to cast light on human rights violations around the globe, more scrutiny and pressure on those countries that do have legislated practices in place to actively harm their citizens.

Are there other things that back-slide? Sure. Our prison system, corruption in government, extension of corporate control, monopolies attempting to form, among other things. But that's just it... as those things arise, and people become aware, then a new cause is taken up, and we attempt to point the direction of our morality away from those things as well. We adapt. If religion doesn't want to be a part of that... then screw religion.

 

[Spirit of Light]

It's funny you see it this way. All I have born witness to is morality in flux, and more and more pointing in correct directions. Morality being honed and shaped, and changes being made to attempt to get us to a better place.

Things like abolishing slavery, attempting to legislate for equal rights for many minorities, more open communication about various detrimental aspects of human behavior, more push for acceptance of various human personality types and dispositions (like gay/lesbian/trans), more attempting to cast light on human rights violations around the globe, more scrutiny and pressure on those countries that do have legislated practices in place to actively harm their citizens.

Are there other things that back-slide? Sure. Our prison system, corruption in government, extension of corporate control, monopolies attempting to form, among other things. But that's just it... as those things arise, and people become aware, then a new cause is taken up, and we attempt to point the direction of our morality away from those things as well. We adapt. If religion doesn't want to be a part of that... then screw religion.

Each religion has their moral ethics and their values, and if non belivers does not want to follow it that is no problem, but let those who wish to follow do so.
In Christianity they have the 10 commandments that should be held. and that is what is expected of a christian person.
Living of the law of a God as they do in Christianity does mean that humans should not change the law but follow it.

There will always be a discussion between followers of a religion and those who do not follow.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

Each religion has their moral ethics and their values, and if non belivers does not want to follow it that is no problem, but let those who wish to follow do so.

As long as those religious commands don't contradict or violate the laws of the country you live in, then there's no problem. You want to not eat shellfish and take a nap on Sundays, be my guest! But you will always be beholden to the law of the region you live in, and the region you live in should not be bound to the rules of your belief system. And YOU, yourself Amanaki, have given us the reason why on a silver platter. Because, just as you stated, religion simply does not want to adapt. And it does not do so graciously, and not quickly. A successful society however, cannot be held in such rigidity.

 

[Revoltingest]

What has happen is moral decline in human beings. That is why so many reject religious view and spirituality.

Where you see moral decline,
I see abandonment of superstition.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

what form of judgment do you mean has been done in the answers?

I was going to quote a few posts, but I realized that almost every one of your posts in this thread is judging others.

... including many of the ones where you say you aren't judging.

 

[Spirit of Light]

As long as those religious commands don't contradict or violate the laws of the country you live in, then there's no problem. You want to not eat shellfish and take a nap on Sundays, be my guest! But you will always be beholden to the law of the region you live in, and the region you live in should not be bound to the rules of your belief system. And YOU, yourself Amanaki, have given us the reason why on a silver platter. Because, just as you stated, religion simply does not want to adapt. And it does not do so graciously, and not quickly. A successful society however, cannot be held in such rigidity.

What you forgetting is that when doing the religious life in the right way then the only law you follow is the law put up by God in the case of this discussion. Yes you must follow law of country to not steal, or not to kill someone. but those are rules/guideliens of the religion too.

As a Buddhist i follow the guidelines of buddhism, and what i do is to watch that i do not do wrong or unethical speech, thoughts or action. But i can not judge what other should do or do. personally i do not take part in the mundane life anymore because the spiritual path is what matter to the reason i am here now.It is no longer just a belief, it is a lifetyle. But not evryone want to take it this far. Some does not even want to believe there is other then this physical world.

But even as a buddhist i can see that the other religions are right in their teaching, but where the trouble start is when the followers stop doing the rightroues action, speech and thoughs within the religion they follow.

It all come down to that a spiritual path or religious view is a personal journey, what others think of it is up to them, but one should not condem or judge others

 

[Spirit of Light]

I was going to quote a few posts, but I realized that almost every one of your posts in this thread is judging others.

... including many of the ones where you say you aren't judging.

Because i have a different view of what is morally right or wrong action, speech and thought then many others?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

What you forgetting is that when doing the religious life in the right way then the only law you follow is the law put up by God in the case of this discussion. Yes you must follow law of country to not steal, or not to kill someone. but those are rules/guideliens of the religion too.

For the Presbyterians, "the law put up by God" gives authority to the elders of a church to decide on doctrinal questions and obliges the pastor of the church to respect their decision. The pastor is the one who violated this.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Because i have a different view of what is morally right or wrong action, speech and thought then many others?

No, it's because you're rendering judgement.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Where you see moral decline,
I see abandonment of superstition.

In this case i can only speak about those who follow the christian path because the tread is about the priest who put out the sign. In christianity the law say one should not be homosexual, but it is differnet to be homosexual and not acting on it, then to do live in what Christianity call a sin. The person is welcome in to the church but not the act of homosexuality.

And what they want to day is to allow this act that was once called a sin. this is why there is moraly decline within the church.

As a buddhist i have no problem with any human being. and there is no law that say directly it is a "sin" because that is not something a buddhist can judge other for. I can only do what i think is the best way to live as a buddhist. But i can still "defend the religions in the world"

But every time i do i get called a lier or a judgmental person. It is not judgmental toward any person, it is just explaining what the different religious law/ guidelines say.

 

[Spirit of Light]

No, it's because you're rendering judgement.

I have no judgment toward others, what i do say is what different religions actually is teaching those who follow
And as a Buddhist i only say what buddhism teach is the right way you can see this in the 8 folded path.

1. Right understanding (Samma ditthi)
2. Right thought (Samma sankappa)
3. Right speech (Samma vaca)
4. Right action (Samma kammanta)
5. Right livelihood (Samma ajiva)
6. Right effort (Samma vayama)
7. Right mindfulness (Samma sati)
8. Right concentration (Samma samadhi)

All of them is described in the buddhist teachings. But i do not ask others to follow what i follow.

 

[Revoltingest]

In this case i can only speak about those who follow the christian path because the tread is about the priest who put out the sign. In christianity the law say one should not be homosexual, but it is differnet to be homosexual and not acting on it, then to do live in what Christianity call a sin. The person is welcome in to the church but not the act of homosexuality.

And what they want to day is to allow this act that was once called a sin. this is why there is moraly decline within the church.

As a buddhist i have no problem with any human being. and there is no law that say directly it is a "sin" because that is not something a buddhist can judge other for. I can only do what i think is the best way to live as a buddhist. But i can still "defend the religions in the world"

But every time i do i get called a lier or a judgmental person. It is not judgmental toward any person, it is just explaining what the different religious law/ guidelines say.

It's OK to defend belief.
And I'll defend non-belief.
We're all individuals, & not defined by either.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

In this case i can only speak about those who follow the christian path because the tread is about the priest who put out the sign. In christianity the law say one should not be homosexual, but it is differnet to be homosexual and not acting on it, then to do live in what Christianity call a sin. The person is welcome in to the church but not the act of homosexuality.

So you consider, say, a trans man who's attracted to women to be homosexual? Why?

 

[Spirit of Light]

So you consider, say, a trans man who's attracted to women to be homosexual? Why?

I do not concider them at all, i see a human being no matter if they are Gay, hetro or trans, it does not matter to me. In this tread i was only exaining what christianity teach, not my own view