Patriotism as an American

[Quetzal]

Mods/Admins... Time to clean up the thread. Seems some just can't follow the rules.

Half of your thread is about the office of the president and respecting that office as a "patriot", then you make a rule against talking about that very individual.

 

[BSM1]

you're talking about running his mouth, it is quite large, though not quite as large as the USA

I have given you credit for being smart than this. Please don't disappoint me.

I disagree. Running a business is not the same as running a country.

Nope, almost the same concept by anyone's definition.

O'Really has made many comments over a decade ago about after the war starts, to never EVER question the military or something of the sort.

Neither of these clips support your claim. C'mon, like Lyndon, you're smarter than this. It's ok to be partisan but please don't be so transparent; it doesn't make for a fair fight.

 

[Neo Deist]

Half of your thread is about the office of the president and respecting that office as a "patriot", then you make a rule against talking about that very individual.

I did not make the rule...it is listed on the forum rules, and @Debater Slayer set the precedent in another thread.

Here: Comrade Trumpsky: The rise of Russian Influence in the USA.

 

[Neo Deist]

What happens when the PEOTUS clearly doesn't respect the position though seeing as he spent years challenging the legitimacy of the POTUS and threatening to release information about his illegitimacy that never actually materialised.



What happens when the PEOTUS is on the record as calling the electoral college a travesty to democracy, doubting the legitimacy of the electoral process itself, doubting the legitimacy of judges based on ethnic origin, publicly trashing the National Security establishment and taking the word of someone deemed a national security threat over theirs, while frequently undermining the POTUS to side with the corrupt and ruthless President of a country long seen as hostile to US national interests, and a major threat to their long-standing allies?

I imagine most people, whether they like him or not, would see John Mccain as someone who is a patriot, and he was concerned enough to go to the FBI to request they investigated certain issues around the PEOTUS. Was this a patriotic duty or treacherous in your opinion?

I'm not American, and other than as a minor form of entertainment don't care all that much about your domestic politics. I also don't really know how to define what makes an American patriotic or otherwise as it is not my country. In your opinion, what do you see as the patriotic position in regard to these issues though? When the PEOTUS doesn't match your expectations of how a patriot behaves, what should a patriot do?

You hold yourself to a higher standard, and hope that his advisers reflect that attitude and guide him appropriately.

 

[Quetzal]

I did not make the rule...it is listed on the forum rules, and @Debater Slayer set the precedent in another thread.

I was actually looking forward to our back and forth before you decided to whine instead of answer criticism. Too bad.

 

[Quetzal]

Nope, almost the same concept by anyone's definition.

Let me know when running a business gives me command of an army or access to nuclear weapons. Thanks.

 

[tytlyf]

You hold yourself to a higher standard, and hope that his advisers reflect that attitude and guide him appropriately.

Well, that's part of the problem hiring a businessman as president. He'll appoint people who he thinks is best, not who is best for the job. The American government isn't supposed to be run like a business, the government isn't out for a profit.

 

[suncowiam]

I'm a patriot, not a blind patriot.

I can acknowledge that not everything US does is great, ideal or ethical. I believe the sum of the good is better than its bad. There will always be room for improvement.

Honestly, I wouldn't want to live anywhere else but in California. LOL. Maybe Texas... Maybe...

Obama, Trump and Clinton are patriots too, I believe.

 

[Laika]

People have the freedom of speech and expression, as defined by the 1st Amendment of the US Constitution. Veterans like myself see (or saw...rest in peace brothers/sisters) to it that others enjoy that freedom. I don't take liberties away from anyone, regardless of race, religion, gender, or lifestyle.

There are people in this country that will voice their opinion, and they have every right to do so. Many did not like it when President Obama was elected, but that did not change the fact that he was the President, and the Commander in Chief. For those of us who are military, we understand that you don't have to like the person that holds the position, but you still respect the position. The same goes with higher ranks throughout military service. I may not like my commanding officer as a person, but I respect the position that they are in.

The USA's voting system is set up with an electoral college. It has been that way for over 200 years. Until that changes, there really is no point in talking about the popular vote. That is what it means to live in a republic. The states vote and elect, not the general population. Nothing else needs to be said about this.

People that trash talk the president-elect (or any other official) are not doing anything positive for the country. That only causes more division. This country has enough scars as is. It is time to unite and move forward, not constantly take two steps backwards. You are not always going to get your way. Your "team" is not always going to win. Things will happen and you (we) have to deal with it and move on.

If you are a true patriot of the USA, then set aside your angst and contempt. Be a better person and citizen of this great country. Don't succumb to the levels of cretins that thrive on ignorance and tabloid journalism. Take the moral high ground. Become respectable, not detestable. To quote JFK:

"...ask not what your country can do for you — ask what you can do for your country."



Edit: this thread is about being an American patriot, not criticizing Trump, Hillary, Obama or any other official. Stay on topic or stay out of the thread. I expect the Mods/Admins to enforce this per the forum rules:

4. Soliciting/Advertising and Off-Topic Spam

Spam or off-topic content is also not allowed on the forums. This includes (but is not limited to) posting links or images without discussion-promoting commentary, posts that deviate significantly from a thread topic or its intent, repetitious non-conversational posts, and any other habits deemed spammy by the staff.

I'm going to try and be specific. As a patriot do you feel:

i) an obligation to uphold the rights of muslims from surviallence of mosques as an infringement on the fourth amendment against unwarrented searches and seizures?

ii) that a religious test against Muslims denies prospective citizens their first amendment rights? Or does the political test of supporting the constitution against communists, fascists, etc also act as a precedent that can apply to Muslims?

iii) that the deportation of illegal immigrants could lead to residents of the US being denied access to due process of law and rights due to them even as illegal aliens or use of racial profiling to locate such illegal aliens?

Trump may be the legitimate President of the US but his positions are consistently on the border of illegality or only tenously constitutional. What I'm getting at is that surely it is patriotic to oppose those measures to uphold the constitution and the bill of rights?

 

[Quetzal]

Trump may be the legitimate President of the US but his positions are consistently on the border of illegality-

REPORTED! Against the rules!

 

[suncowiam]

REPORTED! Against the rules!

Shouldn't you suspend this thread for further review until an unknown time later?

 

[Quetzal]

Shouldn't you suspend this thread for further review until an unknown time later?

It's possible. I don't doubt the spite of a bitter C.S.I.

 

[Neo Deist]

I'm going to try and be specific. As a patriot do you feel:

i) an obligation to uphold the rights of muslims from surviallence of mosques as an infringement on the fourth amendment against unwarrented searches and seizures?

ii) that a religious test against Muslims denies prospective citizens their first amendment rights? Or does the political test of supporting the constitution against communists, fascists, etc also act as a precedent that can apply to Muslims?

iii) that the deportation of illegal immigrants could lead to residents of the US being denied access to due process of law and rights due to them even as illegal aliens or use of racial profiling to locate such illegal aliens?

Trump may be the legitimate President of the US but his positions are consistently on the border of illegality or only tenously constitutional. What I'm getting at is that surely it is patriotic to oppose those measures to uphold the constitution and the bill of rights?

I am a Libertarian. I will always support the Constitution/Bill of Rights. If someone is wrong, I will call them out on it (and have).

 

[suncowiam]

It's possible. I don't doubt the spite of a bitter C.S.I.

Dude, we're behind monitors and keyboards. Mod is a superhero compared to CSI.

 

[Neo Deist]

Dude, we're behind monitors and keyboards. Mod is a superhero compared to CSI.

 

[suncowiam]

Who else is going to serve him his hot pocket? Typing and acting bad-*ss is hard work.

 

[BSM1]

Let me know when running a business gives me command of an army or access to nuclear weapons. Thanks.

It's the decision process that's important. A business owner has to make responsible decisions with the best information available. Takes some doing.

Well, that's part of the problem hiring a businessman as president. He'll appoint people who he thinks is best, not who is best for the job. The American government isn't supposed to be run like a business, the government isn't out for a profit.

Seriously?? A business person knows what it means to have the best people in the proper positions. His success usually depends on the people he hires. I think you'll find that Trump has approached and/or hired people that he disagrees with politically simply because they are the best people for the job. Honestly @tytlyf, you need to get back on your game.

 

[BSM1]

Who else is going to serve him his hot pocket? Typing and acting bad-*ss is hard work.

I think I have that printer,,,

 

[Quetzal]

It's the decision process that's important. A business owner has to make responsible decisions with the best information available. Takes some doing.

I see what you mean, even if I don't 100% agree. We will see. One thing is for sure in this case, it is going to be surprising.

 

[tytlyf]

It's the decision process that's important. A business owner has to make responsible decisions with the best information available. Takes some doing.

Seriously?? A business person knows what it means to have the best people in the proper positions. His success usually depends on the people he hires. I think you'll find that Trump has approached and/or hired people that he disagrees with politically simply because they are the best people for the job. Honestly @tytlyf, you need to get back on your game.

Nope, not true. I run a business and wouldn't know the first thing about appointing people for the government positions. Neither does Trump. I don't trust him when he says he knows better than experts. Hence the bizarre choices. He has no idea what he's doing. And continues to demonstrate that.
Trump is continuing to prove what everyone who was paying attention before the election already knew.