Patriotism as an American

[sun rise]

I didn't break the rules, I didn't criticize Trump, Hillary or Obama. I criticized Bull O'Really and fake news.

To me O'Reilly is one who is far from being a patriot as are the new regime in DC - they to me are traitors because they won't uphold basic American values as specified in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. They think they're above the law and can act as dictators. They'll learn differently as true patriots fight to take back America and return us to basic American values.

 

[sun rise]

Here's a classic example of someone who hates America. By this standard, all republicans should have been ousted for their disrespect to President Obama over the past 8 years.

GOP Rep. Wants CNN Reporter Fired For Being 'Disrespectful' To Trump

 

[sun rise]

It's important for a patriot to know and uphold these wise words from the Declaration of Independence

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

 

[randomvim]

They do, all the time. It happens. Blind support, what I think you are referring to, works in the military. Traditionally, officers have some form of experience that exponentially increases with each rank, right? In that case, blind faith makes sense. Despite not liking my officers, those officers have experience, knowledge and support staff to make informed decisions. The current president elect? None. Zilch, nada, zero. That is like me walking into a recruitment office in 1941 and then asked to lead D-Day. It is foolish, dangerous and I don't like it!

what experience does a president need to have?

 

[columbus]

People that trash talk the president-elect (or any other official) are not doing anything positive for the country. That only causes more division. This country has enough scars as is. It is time to unite and move forward, not constantly take two steps backwards.

The irony of this coming from a conservative is a bit stunning. Much of my adult life has been watching conservatives do exactly that. From the Clinton impeachment to the birther nonsense the level of vitriolic speech aimed at the president has been staggering to me, bordering on treason. It was no liberal who yelled "Liar!" at the president during a State of the Union address.

Sorry dude, I see the levels of what you are describing as primarily a conservative tactic that they have been ratcheting up for a couple of decades. I currently see it as a patriotic duty to hold Trump's feet to the fire by whatever legal means available. That definitely includes sarcasm and satire.

This is not a time I am inclined to feel badly about attacking the president by any means I have. Sorry about the lack of unity or civility but Trump doesn't represent any country I want.
I am hardly cutting him more slack than competent presidents like Clinton and Obama got.
Tom

 

[Neo Deist]

The irony of this coming from a conservative is a bit stunning. Much of my adult life has been watching conservatives do exactly that. From the Clinton impeachment to the birther nonsense the level of vitriolic speech aimed at the president has been staggering to me, bordering on treason. It was no liberal who yelled "Liar!" at the president during a State of the Union address.

Sorry dude, I see the levels of what you are describing as primarily a conservative tactic that they have been ratcheting up for a couple of decades. I currently see it as a patriotic duty to hold Trump's feet to the fire by whatever legal means available. That definitely includes sarcasm and satire.

This is not a time I am inclined to feel badly about attacking the president by any means I have. Sorry about the lack of unity or civility but Trump doesn't represent any country I want.
I am hardly cutting him more slack than competent presidents like Clinton and Obama got.
Tom

I am not a conservative.

I am a Libertarian (been over that a dozen times) and I lean left on certain issues, and right on others.

 

[columbus]

I am not a conservative.

I am a Libertarian (been over that a dozen times) and I lean left on certain issues, and right on others.

At least I am not on your ignore list.

But the fact remains, I see the problem you are describing as a political tactic mainly used by people like Trump and his supporters. For all I know you were a founding member of Move On.
But I don't recall this sort of response from you to any of the ignorance posted by esmith or habiru or the many anti Obama members like them.
Am I mistaken about that?
Tom

 

[Neo Deist]

At least I am not on your ignore list.

But I don't recall this sort of response from you to any of the ignorance posted by esmith or habiru or the many anti Obama members like them.
Am I mistaken about that?
Tom

Responding to every idiot on RF would be a full time job. I don't have that kind of time.

 

[columbus]

Responding to every idiot on RF would be a full time job. I don't have that kind of time.

But do you understand where I'm coming from? How disingenuous it sounds to plead for civility and unity, now that the most divisive and unpopular president in living memory just got an Electoral College win?
And he just happens to be your favorite flavor of dishonest politician?
Tom

 

[SomeRandom]

With all due respect, the incoming President has had a ton more experience running something the size of the US than did the outgoing President.

I always find it interesting that America seems to conflate a business savvy person with someone who is automatically qualified to run their entire country.
I mean our version of Trump is basically Clive Palmer who owns one of the most successful electronics enterprises in the country. Pretty much a bored billionaire playing in politics. He's been in politics for as long as I can remember but no one would actually vote him into the top job. And we don't have nearly half the nuclear weapons as America.
But then again perhaps we're just too drunk to care.

Having said that I'm more than interested to see how the Donald handles diplomacy during international affairs. Should be.....interesting.

 

[Lyndon]

Australia doesn't have any nuclear weapons, or nuclear power for that matter. But it did have Tony Abbott.

 

[Neo Deist]

But do you understand where I'm coming from? How disingenuous it sounds to plead for civility and unity, now that the most divisive and unpopular president in living memory just got an Electoral College win?

Presidential popularity is in the eye of the beholder.

And he just happens to be your favorite flavor of dishonest politician?
Tom

I did not vote for him. I just view him as the better option over Hillary. Please don't put words in my mouth.

 

[Revoltingest]

Should be.....interesting.

That sounds like a traditional Chinese curse.

 

[SomeRandom]

Australia doesn't have any nuclear weapons, or nuclear power for that matter. But it did have Tony Abbott.

Ahh yes good old big ears. I guess it evens out really.
Them budgie smugglers tho!

 

[SomeRandom]

That sounds like a traditional Chinese curse.

However did you know?!

 

[psychoslice]

As long it doesn't turn into arrogance.

 

[lovesong]

What about those of us who aren't patriots and America fanboys/fangirls? Can we still complain about the ******* who's going to polute the news hour for the next four years?

 

[Neo Deist]

What about those of us who aren't patriots and America fanboys/fangirls? Can we still complain about the a*shole who's going to polute the news hour for the next four years?

Such is your right.

 

[lovesong]

Such is your right.

But your point was that the patriots should get over it and stop complaining, despite their right to. So what about everyone else? Are the only people who should shut up the patriots? Or should everyone just stop voicing their opinions about political figures and events?

 

[Neo Deist]

But your point was that the patriots should get over it and stop complaining, despite their right to. So what about everyone else? Are the only people who should shut up the patriots? Or should everyone just stop voicing their opinions about political figures and events?

Actually the point of this thread was multi-fold, but the main point was that people in general need to move forward, and stop stoking the fire of division. It was about respecting the position even if you don't respect the person. Throughout history, the empires that were divided always fall. Far too many people are only concerned with "me" or they claim to be a humanist/civil rights activist, but only if those they are advocating for agree with their position.

If someone disagrees with them, they have a come apart, and things quickly turn to civil unrest and/or violence.

The USA is in a sad state of affairs, regardless of which side of the line you fall on.