Paul - An Apostle?

[2ndpillar]

While most employers I would say do not beat their employees at least in the U.S., employees in many respects can be considered as slaves. There are other ways we are slaves. The Law was appropriate for the times. Sometimes, as you probably know, a slave wanted to stay with his master beyond the time designated.

Per Isaiah 14:1-2, the "strangers"/gentiles will choose to be "servants"/"captors" to Jacob, post "when the Lord will have compassion on Jacob, and again choose Israel, and settle them in their own land", as is pointed out in Ezekiel 37. The judgement of the nations/gentiles post "the day of the LORD" (Joel 2:31) is that the nations that sold Israel will be sold to the Sabbateans (Joel 3:8) as slaves.

 

[metis]

While most employers I would say do not beat their employees at least in the U.S., employees in many respects can be considered as slaves. There are other ways we are slaves. The Law was appropriate for the times. Sometimes, as you probably know, a slave wanted to stay with his master beyond the time designated.

If you are just going to play this game, then I'm out because it is so disingenuous.

Christianity allowed for having slaves, and the history of this through the centuries should be VERY obvious. The exception to the rule were what we call "indentured servants", which were often grouped under the use of the word "slaves" in scripture.

Please see and acknowledge the Reality for what it is even though it is uncomfortable at times for both of us. Judaism and Christianity both allowed for slavery-- period, and end of story.

 

[YoursTrue]

Locust are "clean" insects per Leviticus 11:20-25. I don't know the source of your information, but you might want to hit the reset button, and get a larger type of print, and a better source bible. The vow of the Nazarene is to not cut their hair. Yeshua did not contest sacrifice per se, but the overcharging/cheating of the poor for their participation. Sacrifice will be reinstated after the "great tribulation" (Zechariah 14:21). In Jerusalem, the "Canaanites"/merchants, will no longer be found.

The locust was a permissible food for the Israelites to eat. Leviticus 11:21,22 says:
"However, you may eat the following kinds of flying insects that walk on all fours: those having jointed legs above their feet for hopping on the ground. Of these you may eat any kind of locust, katydid, cricket, or grasshopper. "

 

[YoursTrue]

If you are just going to play this game, then I'm out because it is so disingenuous.

Christianity allowed for having slaves, and the history of this through the centuries should be VERY obvious. The exception to the rule were what we call "indentured servants", which were often grouped under the use of the word "slaves" in scripture.

Please see and acknowledge the Reality for what it is even though it is uncomfortable at times for both of us. Judaism and Christianity both allowed for slavery-- period, and end of story.

I was replying to the idea that a poster was saying slavery is so horrible. To an extent we are all slaves. Some treated better than others.
You are correct about slavery permitted by God. Yes, indentured servitude was continued often with no way out under very difficult circumstances. As you probably know there were admonitions in the Christian scriptures regarding the fact that even Christians had slaves. Or were slaves. Onesimus comes to mind.

 

[YoursTrue]

No, it was not a "misinterpretation" but a different "application", which is very much a "kosher" debate under Jewish Law.

Are you saying the "leader of the synagogue" did not misinterpret, but simply had a different application? (Wow... is all I can say right now to that if that's what you're saying.) But in Jesus case. he called the determination by the "leader of the synagogue" that a woman should not be healed on the Sabbath an absolute abomination, argument or not. He didn't mince words in condemning him by calling HIM a hypocrite. You can argue it, say it was ok, etc., if that's what you would like to, however Jesus settled it. When he called them hypocrites and told them about it because they would rescue their livestock but didn't like that he healed a woman on the Sabbath he settled the matter of "different application."
I am saddened you don't agree with the decision of Jesus, but then...that's more or less what it's all about. He never broke the Law. of God. I'll leave it at that for now.

 

[metis]

Are you saying the "leader of the synagogue" did not misinterpret, but simply had a different application? (Wow... is all I can say right now to that if that's what you're saying.) But in Jesus case. he called the determination by the "leader of the synagogue" that a woman should not be healed on the Sabbath an absolute abomination, argument or not. He didn't mince words in condemning him by calling HIM a hypocrite. You can argue it, say it was ok, etc., if that's what you would like to, however Jesus settled it. When he called them hypocrites and told them about it because they would rescue their livestock but didn't like that he healed a woman on the Sabbath he settled the matter of "different application."
I am saddened you don't agree with the decision of Jesus, but then...that's more or less what it's all about. He never broke the Law. of God. I'll leave it at that for now.

The issue of what's allowable on Shabbat and what's not has always been contentious within Jewish circles, so your "Wow..." response is an exhibition of your ignorance of both Jewish Law and the use of the Jewish "commentary" that Jesus was very much a part of.

Maybe stop posting snide comments and start studying.

 

[Wildswanderer]

He created the resurrection.

You gotta be kidding me.
Jesus said he would rise and he did. How is that Paul creating the resurrection?

 

[2ndpillar]

Was Paul really a true Christian, and apostle, as the scriptures say?
What do you believe, and does your belief agree with the scriptures?

You will have to define what is "scripture". The "scripture" used by Yeshua is not the "scripture" you apparently use. Even the "holy writings" referred to by Paul, that he had read from youth, do not correspond to what you describe as being from "scripture". As for Paul being a "Christian", a daughter of Babylon, yes, of course, it his gospel that the "Christian" church subscribes, the false gospel of grace, and that would be his church, the "flock doomed for slaughter" per Zechariah 11:7, comprised of the tares following the message of the "enemy"/"devil per Matthew 13:30, which are due to be "gathered" "first" and burned, now that we are at the "end of the age". And no one called Paul an "apostle" apart from Paul, which makes his claim false according to Yeshua. (John 5:31)

New King James Version John 5:31
“If I bear witness of Myself, My witness is not true.

 

[2ndpillar]

He was one of the finest Christians ever to walk the face of the earth. Yes my belief agrees with the scriptures.

What "scriptures"? Are you saying you should believe Paul because Paul said you should, and everything Paul said was "scriptural"? That is like saying you should believe all false prophets because they say they speak for God, and then have the Roman empire to set up their religion. Kind of sounds sketchy to me.

 

[2ndpillar]

You gotta be kidding me.
Jesus said he would rise and he did. How is that Paul creating the resurrection?

I think Yeshua said their would only be one sign, and that would be the sign of Jonah, which does not correspond to the "Christian" myth of being buried on the evening of Gentile Friday and rising before sunrise on the Gentile Sunday. (Matthew 12:40) The Feast of Unleavened bread is on the 15th of Nissan, and falls on different days of the week every year. Passover, the 14th of Nissan, also falls on different days of the week, and fell on the Gentile Wednesday of that year, making the Gentile Thursday, the Feast of Unleavened Bread. The opening of the tomb according to the gospel of Matthew 28:1, happened prior to dawn of the first day of the week, which happens on the previous 7th day of the week. You are apparently mixing up your traditions.

 

[Triumph]

Locust are "clean" insects per Leviticus 11:20-25. I don't know the source of your information, but you might want to hit the reset button, and get a larger type of print, and a better source bible. The vow of the Nazarene is to not cut their hair. Yeshua did not contest sacrifice per se, but the overcharging/cheating of the poor for their participation. Sacrifice will be reinstated after the "great tribulation" (Zechariah 14:21). In Jerusalem, the "Canaanites"/merchants, will no longer be found.

I was attempting to inject a bit of humor speaking about John eating bugs (which he did) and having uncut/wild hair. I doubt John spent any time primping in the wilderness. The point being is Moses wrote a law that states it is a sin to pick up a bug/insect. That is not a law from God, that is a man made law from Moses. Regardless if locusts are proclaimed clean by the Jews or not, John the Baptist rejects ALL Mosaic laws that demand money and blood sacrifices remove sin and that is a large number of Mosaic laws that are made by a man not by God.

What Nazareth evolved to be over time after the death of Jesus is not what it was in the beginning. In the beginning Nazareth was a tent city where the disciples of Jesus would gather together in the mountainous areas of Galilee. Jews constantly sought to kill them for leaving their religion. Priests like Paul were breaking into homes in the city to kill Christians or imprison them so many surviving disciples fled the walled cities to live in tents. Wherever Jesus and his group of followers were living was called Nazareth. The disciples of Jesus chose high ground so their watchers could forewarn them if they saw any temple killers searching for them. The disciples could then move out of that area quickly to another location in the mountains of Galilee, to avoid bloody conflict with Jews. Jesus attempted to protect his disciples from being slaughtered by Hebrew/Jews.

Peter did say not to let your self worth be based on what others consider ideal physical beauty including the way one has their hair presented or how expensive their jewelry and clothes are..
1 Peter 3:3
Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel;'
There is no scripture where Jesus proclaims not to cut your hair. The length or condition of your hair does not make you righteous or unrighteous.

In Jerusalem no one will be found including merchants because it is going to be a thermonuclear target in the End of Days war. A thermonuclear missile is the Abomination of Desolation and Jews, Muslims and Christians all call Jerusalem a Holy place. The missile will be launched to prove that no God is going to protect that place men call holy, where the death of the Savior Jesus took place..
Matthew 24:15
When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand"
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: 17Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: 18Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes."
Go to the mountains because radiation does not penetrate rock. Do not take any time trying to save possessions to take with you while fleeing the fallout area. Do not return back to your house later to get clothes or personal items because radiation can not be seen and all items contaminated can kill you just to hold them.
Jesus the Son of God, advises how to save yourself when the false Christ, Son of Man comes like a thief to take what does not belong to him, your life.

 

[Wildswanderer]

I think Yeshua said their would only be one sign, and that would be the sign of Jonah, which does not correspond to the "Christian" myth of being buried on the evening of Gentile Friday and rising before sunrise on the Gentile Sunday. (Matthew 12:40) The Feast of Unleavened bread is on the 15th of Nissan, and falls on different days of the week every year. Passover, the 14th of Nissan, also falls on different days of the week, and fell on the Gentile Wednesday of that year, making the Gentile Thursday, the Feast of Unleavened Bread. The opening of the tomb according to the gospel of Matthew 28:1, happened prior to dawn of the first day of the week, which happens on the previous 7th day of the week. You are apparently mixing up your traditions.

What does the timing have to do with Jesus saying he would rise, which he did?
"He said to them, “The Son of Man is going to be betrayed into the hands of his enemies. He will be killed, but three days later he will rise from the dead.”
Mark 9:31


This isn't Paul, it's Jesus telling us that the resurrection happened.

 

[74x12]

What "scriptures"? Are you saying you should believe Paul because Paul said you should, and everything Paul said was "scriptural"? That is like saying you should believe all false prophets because they say they speak for God, and then have the Roman empire to set up their religion. Kind of sounds sketchy to me.

I've studied Paul's revelations and arguments for myself. Comparing them to what Jesus and the Torah/Tanakh say. It all checks out. He's speaking the truth.

 

[2ndpillar]

What does the timing have to do with Jesus saying he would rise, which he did?
"He said to them, “The Son of Man is going to be betrayed into the hands of his enemies. He will be killed, but three days later he will rise from the dead.”
Mark 9:31


This isn't Paul, it's Jesus telling us that the resurrection happened.

Timing is everything. The sign of Jonah is after 3 days and 3 nights. Mark wasn't there, so he is no witness. On the other hand, Matthew 16:21 states that Yeshua told them he would "raised up on the third day", which is different, and alludes to Hosea 6:2, in which "Israel", the combined stick of Judah and Ephraim, will be revived after two days, "on the third day". Which is to say, Judah and Ephraim/Israel, will be combined into one, and returned to the land given to Jacob, under the leadership of the son of man, king David (Ezekiel 37:22-28) "forever". And when that happens, when the "son of man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels: and 'will recompense every man according to his deeds' " (Matthew 16:27 & Psalms 62:12). According to Matthew 24:29, the son of man will return immediately after the tribulation (great tribulation), which would be after "two days" on the "third day", which is after 2000 years, which is about now based on Herod's death being around 6 B.C., when Herod killed the children under 2 years old (Matthew 2:16-18), and the start of the witnessing of Yeshua being at the age of 30 years old, would make in Gentile years, the year 2022 plus 3, about the start of the 3rd day, when you can start looking for the return of the son of man and his angels to recompense everyone for their deeds. Now for the rest of the story. Look for the "stars to fall from the sky" (Matthew 24:29), probably just a euphemism for Russian multiple head "one hundred pound" nuclear warheads falling from the sky, as noted in Revelation 16:16-21 with regards to "Har-Magedon", in which the falling stars are to follow a "great earthquake". According to Yeshua, you won't know the day or the hour, but you certainly can know the millennia.

 

[2ndpillar]

I've studied Paul's revelations and arguments for myself. Comparing them to what Jesus and the Torah/Tanakh say. It all checks out. He's speaking the truth.

And what "truth" of the approximately 38,000 different Christian sects, do you speak for? The group representing the writers of the Torah certainly do not agree. And the Protestant portion of the sects call their mother religion, the Roman church, the "whore of Babylon". You will have to clarify whose position you espouse for me to see where you are coming from. Most of them simply say the law was nailed to a cross and go on their merry way. I am not aware of any who say that Paul agrees with "it all checking" out , and Paul being in unison with the Torah. I don't know, you seem to be hanging out on a ledge with an earthquake coming your way.

 

[2ndpillar]

I was attempting to inject a bit of humor speaking about John eating bugs (which he did) and having uncut/wild hair. I doubt John spent any time primping in the wilderness. The point being is Moses wrote a law that states it is a sin to pick up a bug/insect. That is not a law from God, that is a man made law from Moses. Regardless if locusts are proclaimed clean by the Jews or not, John the Baptist rejects ALL Mosaic laws that demand money and blood sacrifices remove sin and that is a large number of Mosaic laws that are made by a man not by God.

What Nazareth evolved to be over time after the death of Jesus is not what it was in the beginning. In the beginning Nazareth was a tent city where the disciples of Jesus would gather together in the mountainous areas of Galilee. Jews constantly sought to kill them for leaving their religion. Priests like Paul were breaking into homes in the city to kill Christians or imprison them so many surviving disciples fled the walled cities to live in tents. Wherever Jesus and his group of followers were living was called Nazareth. The disciples of Jesus chose high ground so their watchers could forewarn them if they saw any temple killers searching for them. The disciples could then move out of that area quickly to another location in the mountains of Galilee, to avoid bloody conflict with Jews. Jesus attempted to protect his disciples from being slaughtered by Hebrew/Jews.

Peter did say not to let your self worth be based on what others consider ideal physical beauty including the way one has their hair presented or how expensive their jewelry and clothes are..
1 Peter 3:3
Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel;'
There is no scripture where Jesus proclaims not to cut your hair. The length or condition of your hair does not make you righteous or unrighteous.

In Jerusalem no one will be found including merchants because it is going to be a thermonuclear target in the End of Days war. A thermonuclear missile is the Abomination of Desolation and Jews, Muslims and Christians all call Jerusalem a Holy place. The missile will be launched to prove that no God is going to protect that place men call holy, where the death of the Savior Jesus took place..
Matthew 24:15
When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand"
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: 17Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: 18Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes."
Go to the mountains because radiation does not penetrate rock. Do not take any time trying to save possessions to take with you while fleeing the fallout area. Do not return back to your house later to get clothes or personal items because radiation can not be seen and all items contaminated can kill you just to hold them.
Jesus the Son of God, advises how to save yourself when the false Christ, Son of Man comes like a thief to take what does not belong to him, your life.

John the Baptist, as one who was set apart/separated/consecrated, is one who takes a vow not to cut their hair or not drink wine, not a person who lives in Nazareth. John the Baptist didn't break any laws, he was keeping them and setting himself apart as a nazirite by not cutting his hair. He ate locust under the law, as they are deemed clean per the law. With the coming great tribulation, the locust will apparently be on the hunt, and you might want to eat them before they bite you (Revelation 9:3).

In the Hebrew Bible, a nazirite or nazarite (Hebrew: נזיר ‎) is one who voluntarily took a vow described in Numbers 6:1–21. "Nazarite" comes from the Hebrew word nazir meaning "consecrated" or "separated". Those who put themselves under a Nazirite vow do so by adding unto themselves a degree of sanctity, as it says: "Until the time is completed, etc., he shall be holy."

 

[MyM]

Neither Paul nor Jesus taught a trinity. That Jesus said only God is good is right and proper, it does not mean that Jesus is bad, of course, as some might twist that. It means that he learned all goodness from his heavenly Father. John 8:28,29.

PAUL INVENTED IT. He said so in the Bible.

 

[YoursTrue]

PAUL INVENTED IT. He said so in the Bible.

Please do show where he invented the trinity. By the way, you think it was invented and not real? Just asking, since I do not believe as many do that God is a trinity.

 

[YoursTrue]

I was attempting to inject a bit of humor speaking about John eating bugs (which he did) and having uncut/wild hair. I doubt John spent any time primping in the wilderness. The point being is Moses wrote a law that states it is a sin to pick up a bug/insect. That is not a law from God, that is a man made law from Moses. Regardless if locusts are proclaimed clean by the Jews or not, John the Baptist rejects ALL Mosaic laws that demand money and blood sacrifices remove sin and that is a large number of Mosaic laws that are made by a man not by God.

What Nazareth evolved to be over time after the death of Jesus is not what it was in the beginning. In the beginning Nazareth was a tent city where the disciples of Jesus would gather together in the mountainous areas of Galilee. Jews constantly sought to kill them for leaving their religion. Priests like Paul were breaking into homes in the city to kill Christians or imprison them so many surviving disciples fled the walled cities to live in tents. Wherever Jesus and his group of followers were living was called Nazareth. The disciples of Jesus chose high ground so their watchers could forewarn them if they saw any temple killers searching for them. The disciples could then move out of that area quickly to another location in the mountains of Galilee, to avoid bloody conflict with Jews. Jesus attempted to protect his disciples from being slaughtered by Hebrew/Jews.

Peter did say not to let your self worth be based on what others consider ideal physical beauty including the way one has their hair presented or how expensive their jewelry and clothes are..
1 Peter 3:3
Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel;'
There is no scripture where Jesus proclaims not to cut your hair. The length or condition of your hair does not make you righteous or unrighteous.

In Jerusalem no one will be found including merchants because it is going to be a thermonuclear target in the End of Days war. A thermonuclear missile is the Abomination of Desolation and Jews, Muslims and Christians all call Jerusalem a Holy place. The missile will be launched to prove that no God is going to protect that place men call holy, where the death of the Savior Jesus took place..
Matthew 24:15
When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand"
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: 17Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: 18Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes."
Go to the mountains because radiation does not penetrate rock. Do not take any time trying to save possessions to take with you while fleeing the fallout area. Do not return back to your house later to get clothes or personal items because radiation can not be seen and all items contaminated can kill you just to hold them.
Jesus the Son of God, advises how to save yourself when the false Christ, Son of Man comes like a thief to take what does not belong to him, your life.

No. Unfortunately you keep twisting. And twisters are condemned, they are standing on very, very shaky ground.
You finally admit that the Torah clearly states that locusts are among those "bugs" clean to eat for the Jews. Leviticus 11 says in relation to clean and unclean insects:
"Of these you may eat any kind of locust, katydid, cricket, or grasshopper. 23All other flying insects that have four legs are detestable to you."
Locusts were considered clean for the Israelites to eat. You are unfortunately building on a foundation that truly is not there because you keep making things up and then go back to false teachings. It's truly sad to see someone like you who is firmly entrenched in false accusations. I hope you get better.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Timing is everything. The sign of Jonah is after 3 days and 3 nights. Mark wasn't there, so he is no witness. On the other hand, Matthew 16:21 states that Yeshua told them he would "raised up on the third day", which is different, and alludes to Hosea 6:2, in which "Israel", the combined stick of Judah and Ephraim, will be revived after two days, "on the third day". Which is to say, Judah and Ephraim/Israel, will be combined into one, and returned to the land given to Jacob, under the leadership of the son of man, king David (Ezekiel 37:22-28) "forever". And when that happens, when the "son of man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels: and 'will recompense every man according to his deeds' " (Matthew 16:27 & Psalms 62:12). According to Matthew 24:29, the son of man will return immediately after the tribulation (great tribulation), which would be after "two days" on the "third day", which is after 2000 years, which is about now based on Herod's death being around 6 B.C., when Herod killed the children under 2 years old (Matthew 2:16-18), and the start of the witnessing of Yeshua being at the age of 30 years old, would make in Gentile years, the year 2022 plus 3, about the start of the 3rd day, when you can start looking for the return of the son of man and his angels to recompense everyone for their deeds. Now for the rest of the story. Look for the "stars to fall from the sky" (Matthew 24:29), probably just a euphemism for Russian multiple head "one hundred pound" nuclear warheads falling from the sky, as noted in Revelation 16:16-21 with regards to "Har-Magedon", in which the falling stars are to follow a "great earthquake". According to Yeshua, you won't know the day or the hour, but you certainly can know the millennia.

Whatever.. I don't do end time prophecy..too many ways to interpret it.... but you don't believe in Jesus' resurrection? Seems like you just cherry pick the verses you want and ignore the rest.