Paul - An Apostle?

[YoursTrue]

The issue of what's allowable on Shabbat and what's not has always been contentious within Jewish circles, so your "Wow..." response is an exhibition of your ignorance of both Jewish Law and the use of the Jewish "commentary" that Jesus was very much a part of.

Maybe stop posting snide comments and start studying.

So did Jesus call the "leader of the synagogue" a hypocrite or not? It doesn't matter if it's a matter of controversy among some "scholars" to this date. I wonder if you even believe that event took place, or -- if perhaps the term fabricated better describes it for you? Either Jesus told the truth when he called the leader of the synagogue a hypocrite or he did not. Either Jesus healed the woman on the Sabbath or he did not.

 

[YoursTrue]

Again, the 613 Commandments as found in Torah have always been referred to as God's Law in the Bible, which was and is my point.

Speaking of which, would you say these laws (the 613 you speak of) are still viable?

 

[YoursTrue]

[

Your canon of "scripture" comes from the "Mother of harlots" via the festal letter of Easter (pagan god Astarte of Babylon), from the bishop of Alexandria, who was a supporter of the false dogma of the Trinity, written in 367 A.D. way past the falling away (Zechariah 13 & Matthew 26:31). As Constantine was the beast with two horns like a lamb, who was to "deceive" "those who dwell on the earth", I am thinking your point of view is a bit like having a house built on sand (Matthew 7:24-27).

Holy spirit preserved the scriptures. I don't mean one of the persons of the trinity.

 

[MyM]

You gotta be kidding me.
Jesus said he would rise and he did. How is that Paul creating the resurrection?

2 Timothy 2:8
Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel.

 

[Wildswanderer]

2 Timothy 2:8
Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel.

So? Jesus said would be raised from the dead, so Paul is right.

 

[MyM]

So? Jesus said would be raised from the dead, so Paul is right.

No, it doesn't mean that at all. Jesus taught one God. Jesus didn't teach the trinity.

Jesus never brought anything new...still the same, one God, not three in One. It was Paul.

In Islam, Jesus never died-he was taken up and awaiting his time for his second coming.

In Christianity they claim that God died.

 

[Wildswanderer]

No, it doesn't mean that at all. Jesus taught one God. Jesus didn't teach the trinity

Of course he did. He spoke of both the Father and the Holy Spirit and he said he was one with the Father.
At his baptism, all three are manifesting thier presence.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Jesus never brought anything new..

Where do you get that?

 

[MyM]

Of course he did. He spoke of both the Father and the Holy Spirit and he said he was one with the Father.
At his baptism, all three are manifesting thier presence.

Doesn't prove anything. Especially that he was God. He never claimed it ANYWHERE in the Bible. NO WHERE. The trinity is false and made up.

In the Quran Allah says,

“Surely, disbelievers are those who said: "Allah is the third of the three (in a Trinity)." But there is no llaah (god) (none who has the right to be worshipped) but One Ilaah (God -Allah)”
al-Maa’idah 5:73

They (Jews and Christians) took their rabbis and their monks to be their lords besides Allah (by obeying them in things which they made lawful or unlawful according to their own desires without being ordered by Allah), and (they also took as their Lord) Messiah, son of Maryam (Mary), while they (Jews and Christians) were commanded [in the Tawraat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)] to worship none but One Ilaah (God — Allah) Laa ilaaha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He). Praise and glory be to Him (far above is He) from having the partners they associate (with Him)”
al-Tawbah 9:31

“O people of the Scripture (Christians)! Do not exceed the limits in your religion, nor say of Allah aught but the truth. The Messiah ‘Eesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), was (no more than) a Messenger of Allah and His Word, (‘Be’ — and he was) which He bestowed on Maryam (Mary) and a spirit (Rooh) created by Him; so believe in Allah and His Messengers. Say not: ‘Three (trinity)!’ Cease! (it is) better for you”
al-Nisa’ 4:171

 

[MyM]

Where do you get that?

“Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. So then, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do likewise will be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever practices and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 5:17-18-19

 

[Wildswanderer]

Doesn't prove anything. Especially that he was God. He never claimed it ANYWHERE in the Bible. NO WHERE.

Yes he did.
“I tell you the truth,” Jesus announced, “before Abraham was, I AM!”

28Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!” 29Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed” (John 20:26-29).

Again the high priest asked him, “Are you the Messiah, the Son of the Blessed One?” 62“I am,” said Jesus. “And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.” 63The high priest tore his clothes. “Why do we need any more witnesses?” he asked. 64“You have heard the blasphemy. What do you think?” They all condemned him as worthy of death (Mark 14:61-64).

The high priest understands he is claiming to be one with God.

30I and the Father are one.” 31Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, 32but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?” 33“We are not stoning you for any of these,” replied the Jews, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God” (John 10:30-33).

The Jews understood it too.

 

[Wildswanderer]

“Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. So then, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do likewise will be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever practices and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 5:17-18-19

Yes he fullfilled the law and the prophets as this passage tells us...all was fullfilled at his Resurrection. The law is no longer needed.

 

[MyM]

Yes he did.
“I tell you the truth,” Jesus announced, “before Abraham was, I AM!”

28Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!” 29Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed” (John 20:26-29).

Again the high priest asked him, “Are you the Messiah, the Son of the Blessed One?” 62“I am,” said Jesus. “And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.” 63The high priest tore his clothes. “Why do we need any more witnesses?” he asked. 64“You have heard the blasphemy. What do you think?” They all condemned him as worthy of death (Mark 14:61-64).

The high priest understands he is claiming to be one with God.

30I and the Father are one.” 31Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, 32but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?” 33“We are not stoning you for any of these,” replied the Jews, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God” (John 10:30-33).

The Jews understood it too.

That isn't saying He is God. God knew before the world what was.
Jesus never said I AM GOD!
My father and I are one....look further down and so were all the desciples...everyone was one in each other.

READ...THE ENTIRE BIBLE....He never claimed to be God NOT ONCE....but he taught ONE GOD. My father is greater than I....Why callest thou me good there is none good but the father...Hear o israel the lord god is ONE LORD.

 

[MyM]

Yes he fullfilled the law and the prophets as this passage tells us...all was fullfilled at his Resurrection. The law is no longer needed.

That's because HE MADE IT UP. He went away and diverted from the Jewish law! This is known.

 

[Wildswanderer]

READ...THE ENTIRE BIBLE....He never claimed to be God NOT ONCE...

I have and it's obvious that he's God.

 

[Wildswanderer]

That's because HE MADE IT UP. He went away and diverted from the Jewish law! This is known.

What are you even talking about?

 

[Bree]

What I am saying is scriptural. You are not reading what Jesus said compared to what Paul said. They do not match.
God did not send Jesus to teach truth for salvation, then accept a man that claims the doctrine Jesus taught is wrong.

would you like to start a new post about that topic and have a discussion about it there? I'd be happy to participate

 

[Subduction Zone]

Right, Paul said Paul was an apostle.

I knew a guy who said he was a ninja. I don’t think he was a ninja.

Interesting claim. Could you see him?

 

[Subduction Zone]

I have and it's obvious that he's God.

How is it obvious? If that is the case you should be able to demonstrate that without relying on scripture that can be interpreted in more than one manner. Personally I can see merit to both sides of the argument. If I wished to I could pick just the verses where it indicates that Jesus is God, or put that sort of spin on ones that are questionable. And I could easily reverse that. I am not saying that either one is right and that the other is wrong. They could all be wrong. But I have as yet to see one side or the other come even close to proving their beliefs.

 

[Bree]

I give you an exact quote from the Bible that proves what I am saying is right and then you reply that I do not use the Bible as a basis for my beliefs.
Paul never stopped being a Jew, what Paul added to his old religion is the name Jesus to represent the military Christ the Jews are expecting in the future to kill all of their enemies, so Jews rule the world.
Galatians 1:14
And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers."
Paul remained zealous of the traditions of his fathers believing everything they taught, even after he claimed to convert to the New religion Jesus established.

You take the scriptures out of context.

Please take note of the surrounding verses so the context can be understood.

Gal 1:13 Of course, you heard about my conduct formerly in Juʹda·ism,+ that I kept intensely persecuting the congregation of God and devastating it;+ 14 and I was making greater progress in Juʹda·ism than many of my own age in my nation, as I was far more zealous for the traditions of my fathers.+ 15 But when God, who separated me from my mother’s womb and called me through his undeserved kindness,+ thought good 16 to reveal his Son through me so that I might declare the good news about him to the nations,+ I did not immediately consult with any human; 17 nor did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were apostles before I was, but I went to Arabia, and then I returned to Damascus.+
18 Then three years later I went up to Jerusalem+ to visit Ceʹphas,+ and I stayed with him for 15 days.
23 They only used to hear: “The man who formerly persecuted us+ is now declaring the good news about the faith that he formerly devastated.”

Paul converted to Christianity and preached the Good News of the Kingdom along with the Christians.

When Jesus said do not pour the old wine into the new wine because it will destroy it, Jesus was talking about don't mix the old Jewish beliefs with the new beliefs Jesus was teaching because they are not compatible, they are very different religions and Jesus changed the old beliefs. But Paul taught,
2 Thessalonians 2:15
Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle."
Paul taught do keep believing in everything that was the Jewish religion, don't accept any change. That is Paul's epistle.

Again you have left out the context of Pauls letter here. Paul was trying to keep the christians safe from the new apostate teachigns which were beginning to be spread.
2Thess 2: However, brothers, concerning the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ+ and our being gathered together to him,+ we ask you 2 not to be quickly shaken from your reason nor to be alarmed either by an inspired statement+ or by a spoken message or by a letter appearing to be from us, to the effect that the day of Jehovah+ is here.

3 Let no one lead you astray* in any way, because it will not come unless the apostasy+ comes first and the man of lawlessness+ gets revealed, the son of destruction.+ 4 He stands in opposition and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he sits down in the temple of God, publicly showing himself to be a god. 5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you, I used to tell you these things?...7 True, the mystery of this lawlessness is already at work...15 So, then, brothers, stand firm+ and maintain your hold on the traditions that you were taught,+ whether it was by a spoken message or by a letter from us

Paul was not talking about jewish traditions.

In John chapter 7 Jesus said,
19 Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?"
The law that Jesus supports as given from God to Moses was the 10 Commandments and the Commandment "do not kill" was ignored by the Jews including Paul that agreed Jesus should die. Jesus is teaching it is God's desire that Jesus not be killed.

Sure, when Paul was still a practicing Jew, he was committing murder. But when he converted to Chrisitinity, he repented of his sins and God forgave him. He did not continue following the orders of the jewish sanhedren. He became a Christian.

1 Peter 1:18
Forasmuch as ye know that ye were NOT redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;"
Peter is telling us that the traditional belief in blood sacrifice for sin redeemed no one. To believe in blood sacrifice is vanity. Righteousness cannot be bought so Paul lies when he said we are redeemed with the purchased life of Jesus.

Misquoting scripture again my friend.

1Peter .1:18 For you know that it was not with corruptible things, with silver or gold, that you were set free*+ from your futile way of life handed down to you by your forefathers.* 19 But it was with precious blood,+ like that of an unblemished and spotless lamb,+ that of Christ.+

Peters teaching is that Christ's blood set us free. Blood sacrifice as was foreshadowed in the law of Moses and the animal sacrfiices given on the alter to atone for sin.

Acts 8:20
But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money."
That 30 pieces of silver that the Jews paid for Jesus will cause them to perish because the gift of redemption
is not given with human or animal sacrifice. Paul with the other Jews believe it can while Jesus taught it cannot.

You've completely misread this passage of scriputure and the circumstances.

Acts 8:18 Now when Simon saw that the spirit was given through the laying on of the hands of the apostles, he offered them money, 19 saying: “Give me this authority also, so that anyone on whom I lay my hands may receive holy spirit.” 20 But Peter said to him: “May your silver perish with you, because you thought you could acquire the free gift of God with money.+ 21 You have neither part nor share in this matter, for your heart is not straight in the sight of God. 22

This man, Simon who was not a christian, saw the mircacle performed by the apostles and asked if he could 'buy' such power.
He was rebuked by Peter for such a request. You cannot buy holy spirit from God just so you can perform miracles. And this has nothing to do with Paul.