Paul..fake liar or apostle?

[idav]

Precisely. That's what a lot of people think, which is historically impossible.

Paul came first. Then the Gospels.

That's not to say that Paul did not know of some Jesus traditions, but his writings were in the churches and circulated before the Gospels. But it's not like Paul knew of the Gospels and radicalized them. It had to be the other way around.

That is interesting. It does seem apparent that Paul wasn't aware of the gospels. One would figure with the time frames that they would be written around the same time but independent of each other. I have not seen any indication the gospels were based off of Pauls writings even if they came after.

 

[Shermana]

Orange juice.

So you are admitting then that there is no hard evidence to the use of the Epistles before Marcion. Thank you for the honest reply.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

That is interesting. It does seem apparent that Paul wasn't aware of the gospels. One would figure with the time frames that they would be written around the same time but independent of each other. I have not seen any indication the gospels were based off of Pauls writings even if they came after.

Please don't think that I said that. I didn't, I never did, and I never will.

I don't think that they are based on Paul's writings. I do think that the Gospels were produced by communities of Christ-believers who had Paul's writings and chose not to engage in polemic against him but wrote a Gospel that affirmed his writings --- but obviously they did not base their writings on Paul.

However, it's simply untenable that Paul somehow is a heretic or betrayed the pure teachings of Christ.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

So you are admitting then that there is no hard evidence to the use of the Epistles before Marcion. Thank you for the honest reply.

What was I thinking!

It's Sponge Bob Square Pants. That's it.

Scholars around the world are convinced that the Epistles were used before Marcion by the fella who lives in a pineapple under the sea!

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

So you are admitting then that there is no hard evidence to the use of the Epistles before Marcion. Thank you for the honest reply.

You sure your Essenes weren't involved?

 

[angellous_evangellous]

So you are admitting then that there is no hard evidence to the use of the Epistles before Marcion. Thank you for the honest reply.

No, had you read my post you would understand that orange juice is the hard evidence for such a thing.

If you're going to be lazy, you may as well do it while drinking something delicious and wholesome.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

You sure your Essenes weren't involved?

I hate to pat myself on the back, but I thought my response was rather clever.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

*smokes a Morley*

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I hate to pat myself on the back, but I thought my response was rather clever.

Had I seen yours I would have certainly held off on mine. :yes:

 

[Shermana]

No, had you read my post you would understand that orange juice is the hard evidence for such a thing.

If you're going to be lazy, you may as well do it while drinking something delicious and wholesome.

I think the lazy one is the one who refuses to show hard evidence of the Pauline Epistles being used before Marcion. No amount of Orange Juice will substitute an actual answer. But the attempt to brush me off as "lazy" is appreciated.

 

[Shermana]

What was I thinking!

It's Sponge Bob Square Pants. That's it.

Scholars around the world are convinced that the Epistles were used before Marcion by the fella who lives in a pineapple under the sea!

I do appreciate you showing off the fact that you can't answer simple questions.

Scholars around the world think that the Pastoral epistles were written in the 2nd century, somehow I have a feeling you don't agree with them on that one though. There are scholars who think Marcion had something to do with Acts.

So is there evidence or not?

 

[angellous_evangellous]

I think the lazy one is the one who refuses to show hard evidence of the Pauline Epistles being used before Marcion. No amount of Orange Juice will substitute an actual answer. But the attempt to brush me off as "lazy" is appreciated.

Clearly you haven't had any lately.

And you're in denial regarding your laziness. It's moving steadily from childish to offensive.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

So is there evidence or not?

Tomato paste.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

There are scholars who think Marcion had something to do with Acts.

Who? Why?

 

[angellous_evangellous]

There are scholars who think Marcion had something to do with Acts.

Two of them: Dumb and Dumber.

 

[Shermana]

Two of them: Dumb and Dumber.

Amazon.com: Marcion and Luke-Acts: A Defining Struggle (9781570036507): Joseph B. Tyson: Books

Let me know when you write a book describing how dumb they are.

Building on recent scholarship that argues for a second-century date for the book of Acts, Marcion and Luke-Acts explores the probable context for the authorship not only of Acts....

I still want to see a link explaining why the date of 47 is given for 1 Thes. 3rd time.

 

[Shermana]

Clearly you haven't had any lately.

And you're in denial regarding your laziness. It's moving steadily from childish to offensive.

What's offensive is the fact that you think you can turn around each attempt to show proof for various claims with an attack that ignores the question.

Doesn't Peter say to be ready to give an answer? Looks like you may have missed that part.

In your world, calling someone childish and offensive may score points as a means to avoid debate.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

What's offensive is the fact that you think you can turn around each attempt to show proof for various claims with an attack that ignores the question.

Doesn't Peter say to be ready to give an answer? Looks like you may have missed that part.

In your world, calling someone childish and offensive may score points as a means to avoid debate.

It also says not to cast your pearls before swine.

 

[Shermana]

It also says not to cast your pearls before swine.

Yes, but on a debate board, if you can't back up your claims, that means you concede.

You can call me swine all you want, you can call me every insult you want like childish and offensive, that doesn't substitute for an answer. I do appreciate you showing off your question dodging and insult abilities nonetheless.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Amazon.com: Marcion and Luke-Acts: A Defining Struggle (9781570036507): Joseph B. Tyson: Books

Let me know when you write a book describing how dumb they are.


I still want to see a link explaining why the date of 47 is given for 1 Thes. 3rd time.

I don't care what you want. If you were willing to put out the slightest amount of effort, your elementary questions would be easily answered. I'm not going to compensate for your laziness.

And I've read that book before. I doubt very seriously that it says what you think it does. (like everything else you 'read')