Nova2216
Active Member
It is my position that Paul didn't think his sins were already forgiven, nor did he think that water baptism had anything to do with the forgiveness of sins. He also knew that receiving the nature of God (spirit) only occurred after his death and the resurrection of the firstfruits. Therefore, the forgiveness of one's sins can only occur after they die. Thus, each individual pays the required penalty for their own sins by dying…Paul, (in Romans 6:23) claims that the wages of sin is death. So, if our sins were forgiven before we die (being carnal and alive) would mean the penalty of death is eliminated! But, we know this is not the case or true. Where, the Christ was the only one who died without having sinned. We also know that the bible does not claim that Paul was baptized in water…
In 1 John 1:9 it is stated: If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. This is a true statement, but the forgiveness and cleansing doesn't become complete until one's death and the resurrections. Paul, faced this dilemma and made is clear in Romans 7:13-25…Yet, in Romans 8 it seems to contradict this claim, but it really doesn't. Because, being in the flesh we can't please God. Yet, the Christ states that he will send the "helper" from God to strengthen us during our time of trial. This occurrence is somewhat similar to the O.T. practice of the Day of Atonement, where the Israelites were made "right" with God by observing this Holy Day and other rituals. However, theirs sins were not actually forgiven.
Paul makes another bold claim in Romans 7:18: For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) dwelleth no good thing.
DKH - Therefore, the forgiveness of one's sins can only occur after they die.
Nova - Was Paul dead in (Acts 22:16)?
The death the scriptures speak about in conversion is a spiritual death (Rom.3:23) (Rom.6:23) (James 1:13-15).
14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. 15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
One cannot become a new creature until they first have died (Rom. 6:3-6).
DKH - We also know that the bible does not claim that Paul was baptized in water…
Nova - Are you suggesting that it was another baptism other than water?
Notice he was told to "get up". If it was Holy Spirit baptism it would not matter if Paul was sitting,laying down, standing or walking. Yet he was told to "get up" and do something. The Lord told Paul he "must do" something in (Acts 9). That was referring to salvation.
Paul was not saved on the road unless he was saved while still in his sins. His sins was not cleansed or forgiven until three days later in Damascus. (Acts 9:9) (Acts 22:16)
DKH - being in the flesh we can't please God.
Nova - Ever read (1Thess.4:1-3)?
1 Furthermore then we beseech you, brethren, and exhort you by the Lord Jesus, that as ye have received of us how ye ought to walk and to please God, so ye would abound more and more. 2 For ye know what commandments we gave you by the Lord Jesus. 3 For this is the will of God
Did the Lord ask men to do something they could not ever do?
DKH - Christ states that he will send the "helper" from God to strengthen us during our time of trial.
Nova - (Jn 14/15/16) is the Lord having a discussion with the 12 apostles. This was a "promise" made only to them (not you or I). Many people make the claim they can do what the apostles did in the first century but no one can raise the dead, walk on water, etc.
Men of God are strengthened when they read the word of God and apply it to their lives according to (Eph.3:3,4) (Eph. 5:18) (Mt.7:21).
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
Thanks for posting.