Paul's Opinion or the Holy Ghost?

[metis]

I think Paul makes it abundantly clear that celibacy is preferable to marriage. For Paul, getting married was something you only did if you did not have the self control to be celibate.

Yep, that's what it says.

 

[Kenny]

I think Paul makes it abundantly clear that celibacy is preferable to marriage. For Paul, getting married was something you only did if you did not have the self control to be celibate.

I think we are circling around on this one. Can I reiterate lest we take one scripture and create a narrative that isn't consistent with other writings of Paul?

Context: 1 Cor 7: 1 Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me:

1. We don't know what things they "wrote unto me", so we don't know the context of celibacy vs marriage
2. Elders - Titus 1:6 If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, (no mention of celibacy)
3. Bishops 1 Tim 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife. (no mention of celibacy)
4. Marriage Eph 5:31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. (Not stay single)

So I wouldn't agree with your position.
No consistency of celibacy.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I think we are circling around on this one. Can I reiterate lest we take one scripture and create a narrative that isn't consistent with other writings of Paul?

Context: 1 Cor 7: 1 Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me:

1. We don't know what things they "wrote unto me", so we don't know the context of celibacy vs marriage
2. Elders - Titus 1:6 If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, (no mention of celibacy)
3. Bishops 1 Tim 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife. (no mention of celibacy)
4. Marriage Eph 5:31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. (Not stay single)

So I wouldn't agree with your position.
No consistency of celibacy.

When it states that a bishop or elder must be the husband of just one wife, the prohibition is polygamy, not celibacy.

 

[Kenny]

When it states that a bishop or elder must be the husband of just one wife, the prohibition is polygamy, not celibacy.

that is correct... but notice he didn't demand celibacy.

 

[metis]

Paul didn't demand celibacy but considered it to be the ideal. However, he seems to have moderated that position after a while, imo, quite possibly because I think he came to realize that Jesus' return might not be imminent.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

that is correct... but notice he didn't demand celibacy.

I never said he demanded celibacy. What Paul did was make celibacy the ideal, that marriage was for those who didn't have the self control for celibacy.

 

[Kenny]

I never said he demanded celibacy. What Paul did was make celibacy the ideal, that marriage was for those who didn't have the self control for celibacy.

Again... I think we are going in circles here because he specifically said that it was "concerning what you wrote to me" (paraphrased) and we have no idea about the context of what he was talking about.

IF, he had repeated it somewhere else, you might have had a case. I don't think you do in light of all the other scriptures.

IF, he had said "Bishops, husbands of one wife but I prefer celibacy" I would be singing a different song.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Again... I think we are going in circles here because he specifically said that it was "concerning what you wrote to me" (paraphrased) and we have no idea about the context of what he was talking about.

IF, he had repeated it somewhere else, you might have had a case. I don't think you do in light of all the other scriptures.

IF, he had said "Bishops, husbands of one wife but I prefer celibacy" I would be singing a different song.

I have to say, I think 1 Cor 7:6-9 is abundantly clear. There really is no question what it means.

 

[Kenny]

I have to say, I think 1 Cor 7:6-9 is abundantly clear. There really is no question what it means.

Like I said... we don't know the context and if you take the 'text' out of the con'text' all you have is a con.

You can't make a position with just one text at the expense of all other texts.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Like I said... we don't know the context and if you take the 'text' out of the con'text' all you have is a con.

You can't make a position with just one text at the expense of all other texts.

It is not necessary to know what specific issue he was addressing to know the context of his remarks.

 

[Kenny]

It is not necessary to know what specific issue he was addressing to know the context of his remarks.

I disagree..

 

[Muffled]

I guess there is more than one version and more than one way to translate it.

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I believe the know carnally definition fits into the context of sexual immorality.

 

[Muffled]

Yep, that's what it says.

I believe he is talking from the point of view of a travelling evangelist.

 

[sojourner]

So, in 1 Corinthians 7:1 it is stated, "Now for the matters you wrote about: It is good for a man not to marry." Later in 1 Corinthians 7:8-9 the following is stated - “To the unmarried and the widows I say that it is good for them to remain single, as I am. But if they cannot exercise self-control, they should marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion.”

This brings me to the following questions.

1. Was this Paul's personal opinion or does Christianity beleive that he wrote it by way of the holy spirit?
   • In verse 10 he seems to be saying what is written there is didn't come from but from a "higher power." So would that mean that everything prior he claimed came from the holy spirit?
2. Was Paul's statement only for the Corinthians or for all Christians for all time?
3. Was Paul okay with unmarried and widow Christians having intimate relations, of whatever type, but avoiding marriage?
4. If all the unmarried and widow Christians of his time had remained single, like Paul, what would have been the next step?
   • Reliance on conversions to increase their fold?

1) Since we’re discussing the texts, it doesn’t matter “what Xy believes.” What matters is what the text says. Paul believed that he was inspired by the HS. But remember: Paul wasn’t writing scripture or doctrine. He was writing a letter giving spiritual advice.
2) His statement was written to the church at Corinth at that time.
3) No. That doesn’t fit the profile of the morality of the time and place.
4) Paul believed in an imminent Parousia. The future state of the “fold” wasn’t on his radar.

 

[paarsurrey]

So, in 1 Corinthians 7:1 it is stated, "Now for the matters you wrote about: It is good for a man not to marry." Later in 1 Corinthians 7:8-9 the following is stated - “To the unmarried and the widows I say that it is good for them to remain single, as I am. But if they cannot exercise self-control, they should marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion.”

This brings me to the following questions.

1. Was this Paul's personal opinion or does Christianity beleive that he wrote it by way of the holy spirit?
   • In verse 10 he seems to be saying what is written there is didn't come from but from a "higher power." So would that mean that everything prior he claimed came from the holy spirit?
2. Was Paul's statement only for the Corinthians or for all Christians for all time?
3. Was Paul okay with unmarried and widow Christians having intimate relations, of whatever type, but avoiding marriage?
4. If all the unmarried and widow Christians of his time had remained single, like Paul, what would have been the next step?
   • Reliance on conversions to increase their fold?

" 1 Corinthians 7:1, 1 Corinthians 7:8-9 "

The above verses " 1 Corinthians 7:1, 1 Corinthians 7:8-9" have not been colored in red in the following Red Letter Bibles:

Holy Bible King James Version (Red Letter Edition)
The Roman Catholic Holy Bible with the words of Jesus in red.
World Messianic Bible

and that means neither (Jesus) Yeshua- the Israelite Messiah, spoke them nor authored them nor wrote them and , therefore, these are not a reliable source for guidance in ethical, moral and or spiritual matters for one who loves Yeshua, it transpires. Right?

Regards

 

[Muffled]

1) Since we’re discussing the texts, it doesn’t matter “what Xy believes.” What matters is what the text says. Paul believed that he was inspired by the HS. But remember: Paul wasn’t writing scripture or doctrine. He was writing a letter giving spiritual advice.
2) His statement was written to the church at Corinth at that time.
3) No. That doesn’t fit the profile of the morality of the time and place.
4) Paul believed in an imminent Parousia. The future state of the “fold” wasn’t on his radar.

I believe the Holy Spirit gives good general advice but what God's will may be for any individual may vary.

 

[paarsurrey]

So, in 1 Corinthians 7:1 it is stated, "Now for the matters you wrote about: It is good for a man not to marry." Later in 1 Corinthians 7:8-9 the following is stated - “To the unmarried and the widows I say that it is good for them to remain single, as I am. But if they cannot exercise self-control, they should marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion.”

This brings me to the following questions.

1. Was this Paul's personal opinion or does Christianity beleive that he wrote it by way of the holy spirit?
   • In verse 10 he seems to be saying what is written there is didn't come from but from a "higher power." So would that mean that everything prior he claimed came from the holy spirit?
2. Was Paul's statement only for the Corinthians or for all Christians for all time?
3. Was Paul okay with unmarried and widow Christians having intimate relations, of whatever type, but avoiding marriage?
4. If all the unmarried and widow Christians of his time had remained single, like Paul, what would have been the next step?
   • Reliance on conversions to increase their fold?

" what is written there is didn't come from but from a "higher power."

What Hellenist-Paul wrote and his associates and the Pauline-Church followed him in making the basic creeds of Pauline-Christianity was against the teachings of Yeshua- the Israelite Messiah, that reflects/suggests that Paul's source was most certainly the Evil-Satan, and none else, one gets to know , please. Right?

Regards

 

[Joshua Pryce]

Was Paul's statement only for the Corinthians or for all Christians for all time?

I believe for those who can handle it. Romantic relationships create spiritual obstacles. They do provide more emotional, sexual and moral support though.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

I believe for those who can handle it. Romantic relationships create spiritual obstacles. They do provide more emotional, sexual and moral support though.

Greetings. Thank you for your response. The question though is - is that what Paul intentded and if so, what was his source for such a stance?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

So, in 1 Corinthians 7:1 it is stated, "Now for the matters you wrote about: It is good for a man not to marry." Later in 1 Corinthians 7:8-9 the following is stated - “To the unmarried and the widows I say that it is good for them to remain single, as I am. But if they cannot exercise self-control, they should marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion.”

This brings me to the following questions.

1. Was this Paul's personal opinion or does Christianity beleive that he wrote it by way of the holy spirit?
   • In verse 10 he seems to be saying what is written there is didn't come from but from a "higher power." So would that mean that everything prior he claimed came from the holy spirit?
2. Was Paul's statement only for the Corinthians or for all Christians for all time?
3. Was Paul okay with unmarried and widow Christians having intimate relations, of whatever type, but avoiding marriage?
4. If all the unmarried and widow Christians of his time had remained single, like Paul, what would have been the next step?
   • Reliance on conversions to increase their fold?

IMHO nothing Paul wrote was inspired by the Holy Spirit. It was ALL just his own opinions.