Pe****ta Primacy, Palistinian Prophet, & why Jesus didn't speak Syriac

[LegionOnomaMoi]

Well, duh! The NT refers to a 1st Century Nazareth as the 'city' and the 'town' of Nazareth. The Greek word being 'polis'

What is the Greek word for "town"? And as you required evidence for a "town center" (fantastically revealing in ways you can't know that only add to what you unwittingly communicate by asking such a question), what would be the word or phrase for that? How about "nation"? When Jesus is quoted as saying that a prophet isn't without honor "except in their own country and home" what are the words for these?

but we've been through all this on the original thread about Nazareth and James Randi's video.

Yes, once again you ignore actual, physical evidence for Nazareth because your mystic "source itself" forces you to resort to youtube.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

If the NT was first written in Greek, how do you explain the poetic evidence found throughout the Pe****ta, with words that make sense and/or rhyme where the equivalent passage in Greek does not?

We see here how effortless it is to deceive someone who doesn't know the most elementary facts of the case.

Neither Aramaic nor Greek poetry rhymes.

Put simply, the word endings for Aramaic [or Greek, incidentally] that indicates case and/or tense, number, word function in the sentence rhyme. So it's completely irrelevant if the words happen to rhyme because almost all of them will because that's how the language works, not because the author intended it.

Rhyme is a very recent addition to the art of poetry

 

[godnotgod]

What is the Greek word for "town"?

póli̱

Translations of 'town'





πόλη
city, town

κωμόπολη
town, large village

πόλις
town


Definitions of 'town'



an urban area that has a name, defined boundaries, and local government, and that is generally larger than a village and smaller than a city.

https://translate.google.com/?hl=en#en/el/town


póli (plural polis)

From Ancient Greek πόλις (pólis, “city state”).

 

[godnotgod]

We see here how effortless it is to deceive someone who doesn't know the most elementary facts of the case.

Neither Aramaic nor Greek poetry rhymes.

Put simply, the word endings for Aramaic [or Greek, incidentally] that indicates case and/or tense, number, word function in the sentence rhyme. So it's completely irrelevant if the words happen to rhyme because almost all of them will because that's how the language works, not because the author intended it.

Rhyme is a very recent addition to the art of poetry

Except that the Pe****ta is not a book of poetry!

The Beatitudes! Rhyming action [in Aramaic]
[Matt 5:3-12]

http://www.pe****ta.org/forum/styles/maxthon/imageset/icon_post_target.gifby drmlanc » Tue Oct 07, 2003 3:43 am
From: Larry Kelsey

Tow-wi-hon leh-Mes-ki-na beh-Rokh deh-Dil-hon hi mal-koo-tha deh-Shma-ya

(Blessed are they who are poor in spirit because theirs is the kingdom of
Heaven)


Tow-wi-hon leh-Ah-wi-la deh-Hen-on neth-bi-ah-on

(Blessed are they who are mourning because they will be comforted)


Tow-wi-hon leh-Ma-ki-kha deh-Hen-on nar-ton leh-Ar-eh-ah

(Blessed are they who are meek because they will inherit the earth)


Tow-wi-hon leh-Ail-in deh-Khaph-nin oo-Tse-hin leh-Khan-o-tha deh-Hen-on nes-beh-on

(Blessed are they {those} who hunger and thirst for righteousness because they will be satisfied)


Tow-wi-hon leh-Mer-akh-ma-nah deh-Eh-li-hon ne-hoo-own rakh-ma

(Blessed are they who are merciful because upon them will be mercies)


Tow-wi-hon leh-Ail-in deh-De-khin beh-Leb-hon deh-Hen-on nekh-zon leh-A-la-ha

(Blessed are they {those} who are pure in their hearts because they will see God )


Tow-wi-hon leh-Ew-di shla-ma deh-Bi-noh-ee deh-A-la-ha neth-qron

(Blessed are they who make peace because the sons of God they will be called )


Tow-wi-hon leh-Ail-in deh-Ath-ridth-eph-oh me-tul ka-no-tha deh-Dil-hon hi mal-koo-tha deh-Shma-ya

(Blessed are they {those} who are persecuted because of righteousness because theirs is the kingdom of heaven)


Tow-wi-kon a-ma-ti deh-Meh-khas-din lu-khon oo-Radth-pin lu-khon oo-Am-rin el-i-kon kul me-la bi-sha me-tul-thi beh-Dtha-ga-lo-tha

(Blessed are you whenever they curse you and they persecute you and they say every evil word about you falsely)


Hi-din khidth-ah-oh oo-Ro-zo deh-Aj-ruh-khon sa-gi beh-Shma-ya ha-kha-na gir ruh-dtha-pho leh-Nah-bi-ya deh-Men quh-dtham-i-kon

(Then rejoice and be glad because your reward is great in heaven for likewise they persecuted the prophets before you)

Source:
Pe****ta.org • View topic - The Beatitudes! Rhyming action

Notice that there is a very definite pattern to the rhyming. I know there is a technical term for this, but I don't know what it is. This cannot be a coincidence. The Greek transliteration of the same passages also rhyme sometimes, but in a scattered manner, and have no real structure as the Aramaic does.

 

[godnotgod]

"When the Greek translated the New Testament into Greek they made the decision to appeal to the worldview of the Greek-speaking converts for whom they were writing. Their redaction of scripture unnecessarily used words that would do this.

They translated
ܬ ܡ (" miltha ") which means "substance" in Armaic to the "Logos ", which is a construct of the Greek philosphers, meaning "Logic", which was then transformed again into "Word " in English. In Aramaic there is no Word of God, or Logos, but only " substance of God ", i.e. "incarnation".

Their desire to make the Nazarani faith more palpable to Greek converts, meant that they adopted pagan philosophical concepts that are completely foreign to the Semitic thought and spirituality of the earliest of the Messiah's apostles.

The fact is that western Christians cannot question the primacy of the Greek text simply because to do so would shatter entire theological worldview of the majority. No longer would there be a place called Hades, where people you don't like can go when they die. No longer would a sheep be able to save the world through it's life-giving blood*. No longer would God have acted through logic when creating the world, but instead by a mystery incomprehensible to man."

[Yes, we all want a world that can be nicely explained via Reason and Logic, perfectly 'sensible' to the rational mind of the ordinary man, so as to provide security and comfort in a tempestuous world filled with death, injustice, disease, and suffering.]

https://www.academia.edu/5416261/A_...Proof_of_Aramaic_Primacy_of_the_New_Testament

*which is nothing more than an extension of the principle of Jewish animal sacrifice, essentially a pagan practice called 'scapegoating', in which both the goat and the lamb as sacrificial objects are thought of as prefigurements for Jesus as sacrificial host. Poor Yeshu! If only he had actually known how his teachings would be twisted.

 

[godnotgod]

Other evidences for Pe****ta Primacy:

Split Words Undeniable and Irrefutable Evidence of Pe****ta Primacy

[an example]

Split words, are polysemous words (polysemy having multiple meanings). The relevance of polysemy in the case for Pe****ta primacy (the belief that the New Testament was written not in Greek, but in Aramaic, and that the Pe****ta is the closest Bible we have to the original) is mind-blowing. This is how it works:

When comparing different Greek NT (New Testament) manuscripts and/or the English translations of said manuscripts, many differences are apparent. Sometimes, there is just a one word difference among verses from different manuscripts. In basic cases, some Greek texts will have the word Y (as an example) and some will have the word Z. Now this one word, often changes the meaning of the verse, so these variants are quite important. Now, suppose we have a manuscript that has as the word in question, the word known as X. Suppose also that this manuscript is in another language, an ancient language, and that X in this language can be translated to mean Y and Z! Which manuscript would be better? The one that says Y, Z or X?

Of course, the manuscript saying X would clearly be superior to the manuscripts that say Y and Z, and it is also clear that both the Y and Z manuscripts are translated from the X manuscript, as the X manuscript happens to be in another language, and happens to be in a language used by Jesus, the Apostles and the earliest Christian, Judean Christians! It is also clear, that the differences between the Greek manuscripts are CAUSED by different translations of the same X manuscript. Of course, the X manuscript I speak of is the Pe****ta, the New Testament, as originally written in Aramaic. What would the probability be that this just occurred by chance? What if this phenomenon occurs twice? Thrice? Five times? Ten times? There are so many occurrences, it defies chance, and I will only be discussing a mere handful.

Now let us look at the evidence!


1. Burn or boast? - 1Corinthians 13:3

The KJV says: And though I bestow all my goods to feed [the poor], and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

The ISV says: Even if I give away all that I have and surrender my body so that I may boast but have no love, I get nothing out of it.

Versions that say burned or a variation thereof: ALT, AMP, ASV, BBE, CEV*, DARBY, Douay-Rheims, ESV*, Geneva, GodsWord, Holman, KJ21, KJV, LITV, MKJV, MSG, NASB*, NIV*, NIV-UK, NKJV*, RSV, TEV, WE (Worldwide English), Webster, Weymouth, WYC (Wycliffe), YLT (Youngs Literal Translation).

The versions marked by an asterisk, *, have footnotes that mention that early mss (manuscripts) have boast or a variation thereof, rather than burn. It is noteworthy that the Alexandrian NU Text says boast also.

Versions that say boast or a variation thereof: ISV, NLT (New Living Translation), Rotherham.

Now, it just so happens that the Aramaic root dqy can mean to burn, but can also mean to boast. It is clear that the disagreements in the Greek texts, points to the Aramaic original. Here is the verse from the Pe****ta, translated by Paul Younan:

And if I give all my possessions to feed {the poor,} and if I surrender my body so that I may boast, but do not have love, it profits me nothing.

The reading kauchvswmai (kauchswmai, "I might boast") is in manuscripts like 46 A B 048 33 1739*.
The competing reading, kauqhvsomai (kauqhsomai, "I will burn"), is found in C D F G L 81 1175 1881* and a host of patristic writers. A few other Byzantine Greek readings include: kauqhvswmai (kauqhswmai) ("I might burn") and kauqh' ("it might be burned") read by 1505.

BTW - Dr. Bruce Metzger (the ultimate Greek primacist) notes that the latter reading is a "grammatical monstrosity that cannot be attributed to Paul" (B. M. Metzger, Textual Commentary, page 498).
This is clear evidence of the Aramaic roots of the various Greek texts. Paul Younan

Acknowledgements: Thanks to Paul Younan of Pe****ta.org for this split word and for the translation of the verse into English.

Split Words Undeniable Evidence of Pe****ta Primacy in Christianity Articles Forum

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Except that the Pe****ta is not a book of poetry!

Do you even remember what you were talking about? I did quote you so you can refer easily to the topic.

 

[godnotgod]

Do you even remember what you were talking about? I did quote you so you can refer easily to the topic.

My response was to what YOU said.

 

[godnotgod]

And these include...? Do you know how many literary sources we have written in the first century (other than the NT and early Christian literature)? Those of Josephus & Philo. Philo lived in Alexandria, and Josephus has that awful habit of referring vaguely to "the expanse of Galilee" or "whole of Galilee" when he doesn't feel particular locations to be important.

In other words, why would we expect it to ever be mentioned? Do you know what evidence exists for rural villages in Galilee?

Josephus lived only one mile away from present day Nazareth for a time, in Japha. In spite of this, no town of Nazareth is cited by him in his list of some 204 Galilean towns and villages.

204 settlements in Galilee | chaim Ben David - Academia.edu
*****

In his histories, Josephus has a lot to say about Galilee (an area of barely 900 square miles). During the first Jewish war, in the 60s AD, Josephus led a military campaign back and forth across the tiny province. Josephus mentions 45 cities and villages of Galilee – yet Nazareth not at all.

Josephus does, however, have something to say about Japha (Yafa, Japhia), a village just one mile to the southwest of Nazareth where he himself lived for a time.

A glance at a topographical map of the region shows that Nazareth is located at one end of a valley, bounded on three sides by hills. Natural access to this valley is from the southwest. [meaning that dwellers of Nazareth would have to pass through Japha to go home.]

Before the first Jewish war, Japha was of a reasonable size. We know it had an early synagogue, destroyed by the Romans in 67 AD (Revue Biblique 1921, 434f). In that war, it's inhabitants were massacred (Wars 3, 7.31). Josephus reports that 15,000 were killed by Trajan's troops. The survivors – 2,130 woman and children – were carried away into captivity. A one-time active city was completely and decisively wiped out.

Now where on earth did the 1st century inhabitants of Japha bury their dead? In the tombs further up the valley!

With Japha's complete destruction, tomb use at the Nazareth site would have ended. The unnamed necropolis today lies under the modern city of Nazareth.

At a later time – as pottery and other finds indicate – the Nazareth site was re-occupied. This was after the Bar Kochba revolt of 135 AD and the general Jewish exodus from Judea to Galilee. The new hamlet was based on subsistence farming and was quite unrelated to the previous tomb usage by the people of Japha.

Nazareth – The Town that Theology Built

 

[godnotgod]

Ah. I see. So it wasn't a hamlet, but some isolated farmer who happened to go out, build a few watchtowers, farm in multiple separate areas, wonder over away from his farm quite a ways to build this:

That's from the first century.

.

Ooooooh! Impressive! Until you zoom in on the legend, which (as much as is readable) says:

Partial wallmasonry
Modern structure
Burnt deposit
Uncertain join
Vaultproof support
Sub-level feature
Niche
Floor ? (unreadable)
Upward direction of slope
Possible water flow
Level (?) (? below ground)

which are only descriptions of features. Nothing about any building, let alone any town, or even a village or hamlet.

All we have is a small house, farm implements, a wine press, etc.

NO TOWN CALLED 'NAZARETH'.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

My response was to what YOU said.

My response was to what YOU said.

 

[godnotgod]

My response was to what YOU said.

Whatever. Pe****ta exhibits poetic elements in Aramaic.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Whatever. Pe****ta exhibits poetic elements in Aramaic.

 

[godnotgod]

It irritates me when Christians get irritated that Christians think that they're cool.
The giant Hen Pecking Order in the Sky:slap: