• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Peace and Security Unattainable.

TransmutingSoul

One Planet, One People, Please!
Premium Member
As the world again faces war that needs a global response I share a passage from Baha'u'llah given in the late 1800's prior to the two conflicts that also initiated action on a global scale.

"The well-being of mankind, its peace and security, are unattainable unless and until its unity is firmly established. This unity can never be achieved so long as the counsels which the Pen of the Most High hath revealed are suffered to pass unheeded."

When we look at the world response to Russian aggression against Ukraine, we can consider this piece of advice that came from "The Pen of the Most High".

"The Great Being, wishing to reveal the prerequisites of the peace and tranquillity of the world and the advancement of its peoples, hath written: The time must come when the imperative necessity for the holding of a vast, an all-embracing assemblage of men will be universally realized. The rulers and kings of the earth must needs attend it, and, participating in its deliberations, must consider such ways and means as will lay the foundations of the world’s Great Peace amongst men. Such a peace demandeth that the Great Powers should resolve, for the sake of the tranquillity of the peoples of the earth, to be fully reconciled among themselves. Should any king take up arms against another, all should unitedly arise and prevent him. If this be done, the nations of the world will no longer require any armaments, except for the purpose of preserving the security of their realms and of maintaining internal order within their territories. This will ensure the peace and composure of every people, government and nation. We fain would hope that the kings and rulers of the earth, the mirrors of the gracious and almighty name of God, may attain unto this station, and shield mankind from the onslaught of tyranny.......These things are obligatory and absolutely essential. It is incumbent upon every man of insight and understanding to strive to translate that which hath been written into reality and action…. That one indeed is a man who, today, dedicateth himself to the service of the entire human race. The Great Being saith: Blessed and happy is he that ariseth to promote the best interests of the peoples and kindreds of the earth. In another passage He hath proclaimed: It is not for him to pride himself who loveth his own country, but rather for him who loveth the whole world. The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens..."

The world has not yet reacted to the extent required, so personally I see the current Russian aggression is only a prelude to what extent conflict will unfold. It has been America that is initiating the response, with other Nations joining in, some not yet prepared to go the extent required.

It has also been recorded by "The Pen of the Most High", that America will be the leaders to the peace movement.

I wonder what it will take before mankind will start to embrace the needed change.

Is there a debate to be had over this?
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
Democracy is a delusion in most instances. It's a theatrical performance intended to placate the rabble while the rich continue to rule the world. It's long past time we woke up from that spell.
Well, I think many citizens around the world are not as well informed or educated enough to really vote in their best interests, so it could be a human problem. Many nations are doing pretty good to manage themselves and work cooperatively. The more extremist believers in any idea tend to be the fly in the ointment. Education might help resolve this. Of course, some don't want a broad and liberal education for the masses. So conflict over power continues.
 

TransmutingSoul

One Planet, One People, Please!
Premium Member
Democracy is a delusion in most instances. It's a theatrical performance intended to placate the rabble while the rich continue to rule the world. It's long past time we woke up from that spell.

How to balance this has also been given by the Pen of the Most High. Any future democratic governments need to refine the model to include the eradication of extremes of wealth and poverty.

In offering that, I am only offering that what has been offered be considered.

It is not offering one needs to change faith, or consider any faith.

Regards Tony
 
Last edited:

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
Since this thread is in a debate section, I offer Meher Baba's words that the only solution lies with everyone. When people desire something better, then the world will change.

For the moment they must be patient. The wave of destruction must rise still higher, must spread still further. But when, from the depths of his heart, man desires something more lasting than wealth, something more real than material power, the wave will recede. Then peace will come, joy will come, light will come.
 

PureX

Veteran Member
Well, I think many citizens around the world are not as well informed or educated enough to really vote in their best interests, so it could be a human problem. Many nations are doing pretty good to manage themselves and work cooperatively. The more extremist believers in any idea tend to be the fly in the ointment. Education might help resolve this. Of course, some don't want a broad and liberal education for the masses. So conflict over power continues.
The fundamental problem is that among any collection of humans, there will be a small percentage that wants to own and control everything and everyone. And that will work tirelessly to obtain that control. The rest just want to live in peace, security, and relative prosperity. Unfortunately, they never seem to realize that to obtain that peace, security, and relative prosperity, they MUST reign in those among them that want to own and control everything and everyone. Because those people will never reign themselves in. They are insatiable. They are unrelenting, and some of them are very clever. They cannot be allowed the opportunity to gain positions of wealth, authority, or power, because they will only use it to gain more control, and at the expense of everyone else's well-being.

We humans never seem to get this into our heads ... that we must always be on the watch for these people among us, and that we must stop them from gaining a foothold on the mechanisms of social control and well-being.
 

TransmutingSoul

One Planet, One People, Please!
Premium Member
Since this thread is in a debate section, I offer Meher Baba's words that the only solution lies with everyone. When people desire something better, then the world will change.

For the moment they must be patient. The wave of destruction must rise still higher, must spread still further. But when, from the depths of his heart, man desires something more lasting than wealth, something more real than material power, the wave will recede. Then peace will come, joy will come, light will come.

I agree that statement, it is wise and applicable.

Regards Tony
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
Democracy is a delusion in most instances. It's a theatrical performance intended to placate the rabble while the rich continue to rule the world. It's long past time we woke up from that spell.

Wealth rules doesn't it? Folks fight over wealth.
Your wealth, my wealth.
Anything that threatens our wealth requires a response.
One never quite seems wealthy enough. Just a little bit more.
 

TransmutingSoul

One Planet, One People, Please!
Premium Member
The fundamental problem is that among any collection of humans, there will be a small percentage that wants to own and control everything and everyone. And that will work tirelessly to obtain that control. The rest just want to live in peace, security, and relative prosperity. Unfortunately, they never seem to realize that to obtain that peace, security, and relative prosperity, they MUST reign in those among them that want to own and control everything and everyone. Because those people will never reign themselves in. They are insatiable. They are unrelenting, and some of them are very clever. They cannot be allowed the opportunity to gain positions of wealth, authority, or power, because they will only use it to gain more control, and at the expense of everyone else's well-being.

We humans never seem to get this into our heads ... that we must always be on the watch for these people among us, and that we must stop them from gaining a foothold on the mechanisms of social control and well-being.

I see that is correct and needs to be addressed. It will be an important part of ensuring a lasting peace.

Regards Tony
 

TransmutingSoul

One Planet, One People, Please!
Premium Member
Wealth rules doesn't it? Folks fight over wealth.
Your wealth, my wealth.
Anything that threatens our wealth requires a response.
One never quite seems wealthy enough. Just a little bit more.

At the moment it is material wealth that drives humanity.

Lets hope spiritual wealth becomes the dominate path.

Regards Tony
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
Since this thread is in a debate section, I offer Meher Baba's words that the only solution lies with everyone. When people desire something better, then the world will change.

For the moment they must be patient. The wave of destruction must rise still higher, must spread still further. But when, from the depths of his heart, man desires something more lasting than wealth, something more real than material power, the wave will recede. Then peace will come, joy will come, light will come.

The world seems designed to let one easily get caught up in the wealth race.
 

PureX

Veteran Member
The world seems designed to let one easily get caught up in the wealth race.
Everyone must serve the money pump, now, to survive. It has become our God; the giver and taker of life and death, happiness and sorrow, prestige and derision, hope and despair.

Welcome to the buzz-saw of capitalized greed.
 

InvestigateTruth

Veteran Member
As the world again faces war that needs a global response I share a passage from Baha'u'llah given in the late 1800's prior to the two conflicts that also initiated action on a global scale.

"The well-being of mankind, its peace and security, are unattainable unless and until its unity is firmly established. This unity can never be achieved so long as the counsels which the Pen of the Most High hath revealed are suffered to pass unheeded."

When we look at the world response to Russian aggression against Ukraine, we can consider this piece of advice that came from "The Pen of the Most High".

"The Great Being, wishing to reveal the prerequisites of the peace and tranquillity of the world and the advancement of its peoples, hath written: The time must come when the imperative necessity for the holding of a vast, an all-embracing assemblage of men will be universally realized. The rulers and kings of the earth must needs attend it, and, participating in its deliberations, must consider such ways and means as will lay the foundations of the world’s Great Peace amongst men. Such a peace demandeth that the Great Powers should resolve, for the sake of the tranquillity of the peoples of the earth, to be fully reconciled among themselves. Should any king take up arms against another, all should unitedly arise and prevent him. If this be done, the nations of the world will no longer require any armaments, except for the purpose of preserving the security of their realms and of maintaining internal order within their territories. This will ensure the peace and composure of every people, government and nation. We fain would hope that the kings and rulers of the earth, the mirrors of the gracious and almighty name of God, may attain unto this station, and shield mankind from the onslaught of tyranny.......These things are obligatory and absolutely essential. It is incumbent upon every man of insight and understanding to strive to translate that which hath been written into reality and action…. That one indeed is a man who, today, dedicateth himself to the service of the entire human race. The Great Being saith: Blessed and happy is he that ariseth to promote the best interests of the peoples and kindreds of the earth. In another passage He hath proclaimed: It is not for him to pride himself who loveth his own country, but rather for him who loveth the whole world. The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens..."

The world has not yet reacted to the extent required, so personally I see the current Russian aggression is only a prelude to what extent conflict will unfold. It has been America that is initiating the response, with other Nations joining in, some not yet prepared to go the extent required.

It has also been recorded by "The Pen of the Most High", that America will be the leaders to the peace movement.

I wonder what it will take before mankind will start to embrace the needed change.

Is there a debate to be had over this?
I remember there was a saying from Shoghi Effendi that said something like this "nothing can stop Russia from entering Israel". I couldn't find that reference anymore. But I am wondering if that time is coming
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
At the moment it is material wealth that drives humanity.

Lets hope spiritual wealth becomes the dominate path.

Regards Tony

I'm looking at myself.
It is tough.
We, the people, elect the leader which would seem to support our personal wealth. Well enough of us do to keep putting the same people in office.
So what does the spiritual person do about Russia?
Wait for this promised time of peace?
I honestly don't have that kind of faith. So just a bit more wealth and I'll be good. :D
 

InvestigateTruth

Veteran Member
@TransmutingSoul

Here it was


"There will be great destruction, yes world civil war in Europe, U.S., Israel, the Islands of the Pacific, even in Africa, wherever bases are established. The White race in Africa will be almost diminished and will be unimportant in the future. The difficulty will be racial, civil, religious, all over the world. There is nothing to keep the Soviets from marching into Israel. Teheran and Badgered are also in great danger. Oil is the goal. The Heart of the Baha'i world, Haifa, and the Cradle of the Faith, Chicago, and the greatest strongholds of the Administrative Institutions are all in danger."

Prophecies about the Calamity
 
Top