Peace & Security or Sudden Destruction?

[2ndpillar]

It was a great tribulation.. Why would you minimize their suffering? Have you read Josephus? Titus hired him to write the history so he was sort of sugar coating it, but it was terrible.

Its true that Christians had no interest in Jerusalem until Constantine's mother took an interest in finding the holy sites.

The Valley of Jehoshaphat is the same as the “valley of decision.”... probably Kidron.

Some literalists and evangelicals believe that during the millennium Christ rules as king from Jerusalem... instead of a spiritual kingdom.

The "great tribulation" is for everyone, especially the nations/Gentiles. The "great tribulation" will be "cut short" for the "elect", less no one would survive (Matthew 24:24). The fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD was simply the 3rd fall of Jerusalem. Now that Jerusalem has been "restored" (Joel 3:1), the valley of judgment can proceed against the nations/Gentiles. Jacob will be saved (Jeremiah 30:7), but the nations/Gentiles, "I will destroy" (Jeremiah 30:11). The nations still rule to this day. They have not been "all crushed at the same time" (Daniel 2:35 & 44-45). The "great tribulation" is "such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world (Matthew 24:21). The 70 AD fall of Jerusalem resulted in about 1 million Jewish deaths, a lot due to infighting among the Jews. The nations, in the form of Rome, the legs of iron, were pretty much left untouched, for they starved out the defenders. Rome was not crushed at that time, and Titus walked away to later become emperor of Rome. The valley of Jehoshaphat (judgment) is the valley of Jezreel, which is in view of Tel-Magedon, is north of Jerusalem. The dead are in the grave, not on a cloud playing a harp. The nations will worship the king in Jerusalem, by keeping the feast of Booths every year (Zechariah 14:16). And the "Word of God" will rule over the nations with a "rod of iron" (Revelation 19:13-15). And David will be king/prince over Israel (Ezekiel 37:24 & 28) & (Ezekiel 34:24) on the land I gave Jacob (Ezekiel 37:25).

 

[2ndpillar]

What does it mean, "Your humility proceeds you if you think".

Being gentle, merciful, pure in heart" is what God and others "think" about it. I can say for sure that I am persecuted. To me, it means treated as a nonentity. Like, dead. But, I live in America. God bless it! So, physically, I have not been persecuted. Sometimes, I wonder if they might find me I would be silenced. Oh, and everyone on this planet treats me as though I do not exist. Maybe, I don't

So, you have been non physically "persecuted for the sake of righteousness" (Matthew 5:10). How is that so? What "righteousness" have you committed, and who is persecuting you? And who is "they" who would "silence" you? As for "everyone on this planet", except for your neighbor, who may think you play your music too loud, pretty much no one does know that you exist. What ever you do, don't start cutting off peoples ears to bring attention to your existence. I think you have the cart before the horse. You are supposed to look out after other people, they are not supposed to look out after you. And a humble person doesn't bring attention to how merciful they are.

 

[savagewind]

So, you have been non physically "persecuted for the sake of righteousness" (Matthew 5:10). How is that so? What "righteousness" have you committed, and who is persecuting you? And who is "they" who would "silence" you? As for "everyone on this planet", except for your neighbor, who may think you play your music too loud, pretty much no one does know that you exist. What ever you do, don't start cutting off peoples ears to bring attention to your existence. I think you have the cart before the horse. You are supposed to look out after other people, they are not supposed to look out after you. And a humble person doesn't bring attention to how merciful they are.

You are right. Are you having reading difficulty?

Tell me. What is the difference between causing a soul's physical death and treating a soul like it is nothing?

Do you believe that Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life?

If yes, then what truth? Isn't it what God says? Is the Bible what God says?

 

[sooda]

The "great tribulation" is for everyone, especially the nations/Gentiles. The "great tribulation" will be "cut short" for the "elect", less no one would survive (Matthew 24:24). The fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD was simply the 3rd fall of Jerusalem.

Now that Jerusalem has been "restored" (Joel 3:1), the valley of judgment can proceed against the nations/Gentiles. Jacob will be saved (Jeremiah 30:7), but the nations/Gentiles, "I will destroy" (Jeremiah 30:11). The nations still rule to this day.

They have not been "all crushed at the same time" (Daniel 2:35 & 44-45). The "great tribulation" is "such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world (Matthew 24:21). The 70 AD fall of Jerusalem resulted in about 1 million Jewish deaths, a lot due to infighting among the Jews. The nations, in the form of Rome, the legs of iron, were pretty much left untouched, for they starved out the defenders. Rome was not crushed at that time, and Titus walked away to later become emperor of Rome.

The valley of Jehoshaphat (judgment) is the valley of Jezreel, which is in view of Tel-Magedon, is north of Jerusalem. The dead are in the grave, not on a cloud playing a harp. The nations will worship the king in Jerusalem, by keeping the feast of Booths every year (Zechariah 14:16). And the "Word of God" will rule over the nations with a "rod of iron" (Revelation 19:13-15). And David will be king/prince over Israel (Ezekiel 37:24 & 28) & (Ezekiel 34:24) on the land I gave Jacob (Ezekiel 37:25).

There were never a million Jews in all of Palestine. The largest population they have ever had was 700,000 and that's a generous exaggeration.

And Israel hasn't been restored.. They don't have a king.

The Gentiles didn't reject Jesus or crucify him.. That was the Sanhedrin and the Roman curate.

The tribulation was LOCAL.. Jesus said you could escape it by fleeing to the mountains.

“This generation will not pass away until all these things take place.” (Mk. 13:30 )

“Who warned you to flee from the wrath about to come?” (Lk. 3:7 )

“The axe is already laid at the root of the trees.” (Lk. 3:9 )

“His winnowing fork is in His hand…” (Lk. 3:17 )

“The kingdom of God has come near to you.” (Lk. 10:9 )

“The kingdom of God has come near.” (Lk. 10:11 )

“What, therefore, will the owner of the vineyard do to them? He will come and destroy these vine-growers and will give the vineyard to others.” …The scribes and the chief priests…understood that He spoke this parable against them.” (Lk. 20:15-16 ,19 )

“These are days of vengeance, in order that all things which are written may be fulfilled.” (Lk. 21:22 )

“This generation will not pass away until all things take place.” (Lk. 21:32 )

 

[Oeste]

Well, you are apparently on the road laid out by Paul (Matthew 7:13), the road to "destruction", but to get into the "kingdom of heaven" at hand (Matthew 4:17), one must be more righteous than the Pharisees, including the Pharisee of Pharisees, Paul. (Matthew 5:20).

So you are more righteous than the Pharisees and did you determine this yourself?

you have the "tare seed", which is the word of lawlessness, the gospel of grace/cross.

Scripture please?

As for making claims, you seem to be the one making claims, I am only using the testimony of Yeshua to point out the flaws in your positions. God laughs at the sinners, for he knows their day is coming.(Psalms 37:13) Revel in your sins now, because there maybe no joy later. (Revelation 14:10).

Since "God laughs at the sinners" isn't He laughing at you too? Or are you claiming, you who make no claims, that your day hasn't arrived yet?

And what about the scripture quoted earlier, like this one:

Proverbs 20:9

Who can say, “I have kept my heart pure; I am clean and without sin”?​

Do we finally have an answer, and his name is 2ndpillar?

 

[sooda]

Also in 69 AD civil war broke out in Rome so yes they suffered as well.

 

[sooda]

 

[12jtartar]

Can you see that you are contradicting yourself? Babes can understand it so why does the governing body teach that they only can understand it?

savagewind,
The governing body does not say or even believe that they are the only ones who understand the Holy Scriptures. The governing body has written, several times, that there are many people who have been studying the Scriptures many years, who know the Scriptures as well as they do. They study the Bible and try to help the ones who do not understand things, to study themselves and try to understand what the Bible clearly says. When people start to study they cannot understand many things, but as they are helped to understand the simple things, then they start to understand the more deep things of God, Hebrews 6:1-3, 1Corinthians 2:1-16. Babes, who can understand the Scriptures, still need to be taught the Scriptures, then they can understand them.
There is one thing that you know, but should think about. There are only three professions today, Law, Medical, and Religion! It takes many years to become proficient, versed, in either of these professions. Even though babes can understand when things are explained to them, it still takes time.
Many people, like you, for instance, remain babes, because they fight everything, because they do not really want to understand, because that would limit their immoral or illegal actions. They want to do what they want to do, when that want to, and do not want, even The God Almighty to tell them what to do, even though the things that God tells mankind is for their own good, Deuteronomy 10:13, Psalm 32:6-10, Isaiah 48:17-19.
Consider what is written in the Bible, as the alternative to listening to the word of God. Proverbs 1:7,19, 20-33. Proverbs 2:1-15, 21,22.
Notice thatGod wants everyone to live, but when the time runs out, He has no alternative but to destroy all who, just will not listen, Isaiah 26:8-14, 1Timothy 2:3-5, 2Peter 3:9-13, 15-18.
Agape!!!

 

[2ndpillar]

So you are more righteous than the Pharisees and did you determine this yourself?

I am just quoting Yeshua as to what is required to enter into the kingdom of heaven. Apparently, "few" find that "narrow way" (Matthew 7:14). As for who are the "elect", it would be those written in the book of life from the foundation of the world (Revelation 20:12) & (Revelation 13:8), the rest would worship the beast.

 

[2ndpillar]

.
Tel-Megiddo overlooking the valley of Jezreel tel-megiddo overlooking valley of jezreel picture - Bing images

 

[2ndpillar]

Also in 69 AD civil war broke out in Rome so yes they suffered as well.

And I once stubbed my toe, and "suffered as well", but even though it hurt, I didn't consider it the "great tribulation" whereas all the kingdoms of Daniel 2:35 were "crushed all at the same time".

 

[savagewind]

Many people, like you, for instance, remain babes, because they fight everything, because they do not really want to understand, because that would limit their immoral or illegal actions. They want to do what they want to do, when that want to, and do not want, even The God Almighty to tell them what to do, even though the things that God tells mankind is for their own good, Deuteronomy 10:13, Psalm 32:6-10, Isaiah 48:17-19.

Good proof. Thanks.

Agape!!!

uha.

 

[sooda]

And I once stubbed my toe, and "suffered as well", but even though it hurt, I didn't consider it the "great tribulation" whereas all the kingdoms of Daniel 2:35 were "crushed all at the same time".

Are you comparing your stubbed toe to the tribulation they experienced from 67 to 70 AD?

What church do you attend?

 

[sooda]

The Elect
God's Chosen People

To the Christians dispersed among the nations Peter writes: "But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; who once were not a people but are now the people of God, who had not obtained mercy but now have obtained mercy" (1 Peter 2:9,10).

continued

The Elect, God's Chosen People

 

[12jtartar]

You belong to a supremacist group. I would have no problem if you simply preached God is supreme, but you add your Organization to the mix, proclaiming it alone has “true worship” that is “clean and undefiled”.



Sounds like you’re describing your groups’ self-love to me. Virtually every supremacist group is united in teachings and brotherhood worldwide. A distinguishing mark of these groups is the sense of superiority and disdain they feel for any other group but themselves.



Can Witnesses answer the blatant hypocrisy of their Organization? Of course not, so they laugh it off instead. You just screamed about Christendom’s “clergy laity class” forgetting you have such a class yourself, and your Organization claims no clergy laity distinction…unless they’re filing a brief in court to protect themselves from another child abuse allegation. If it weren’t so sad it would be hilarious.



I agree…but “feeling around in darkness” is an apt description of the Watchtower’s failed prophesies and doctrines .



Thank you for the opportunity.

I think one very good example were the “bedroom laws”. For example, getting the elders involved when a marriage partner insisted or desired oral copulation. Your Organization constantly wades in to their member's bedrooms and has never apologized nor repented for the resulting debacles.

View attachment 27794​

The bedroom laws are a good topic to discuss, because it shows how the WT can go back and forth, "tacking" from truth to falsehood and falsehood to truth, just as scripture warns us:

Then we will no longer be immature like children. We won't be tossed and blown about by every wind of new teaching. We will not be influenced when people try to trick us with lies so clever they sound like the truth. (Ephesians 4:14, NLT)​

Oral or anal sex between married couples is:

1. ? Prior to 1974
2. A disfellowshipping offence since 1974
3. No longer a disfellowshipping offence since 1978
4. A disfellowshipping offence since 1983
5. Vague since 2011

Rather than make this a decision between husband and wife, your Organization decided to wade in and make your elders Lords of the muddied waters. There was never a need for them to get involved in this.



I know you can’t, but it’s fun to see you try.

In any event, as stated previously, your “truth” is always in a high state of flux and change. For example, you worshiped Jesus for nearly 150 years. It was even part of your charter. Then Christ was dumped as unworthy of worship not because of any change in scripture but through a change in WT articles. This goes to the core of WT belief: If you don’t like a WT “truth” just wait an issue… it’ll probably change.

It’s also why we can’t believe or take seriously anything Witnesses say at our front door, because what you tell us is God’s truth today you’ll assure us is not true by the morrow.

Oeste,
I read your post, and I can find no reason for your statements, because the teaching about unnatural sex has always been the same. There was never a time when Jesus was worshipped, in the WT organization. I can only assume that you want to believe what you want to believe, and have NO person, even The God Almighty Himself, to tell you what is wrong.
All witnesses want all people to live, but it is completely up to you, whether you listen or do not, we will all stand before The Judgement seat, for ourselves, Romans 14:10-12.
We all must love our neighbor as ourselves, so we try to help anyone understand what the Bible days, but the Bible itself says that only a few will get into the kingdom of God, Matthew 7:13,14.
Luke 13:23,24.
For a person to understand God’s word, he must become like a child, ask questions, and not make ridiculous assertions when he has just started to study, and is still a babe in the truth, still partaking of milk, like you, who has only a nodding acquaintance with The Holy Scriptures, Matthew 18:1-7. We are ordered to teach others, after we have learned truths of the Bible, and any that try to stumble others, sin against Jesus, 1Corinthians 8:11,12, Mark 9:41,42, Romans 1:18, 1Thessalonians 2;13-16. 2Thessalonians 2:10-13. We must all have love for each other, or we cannot survive the coming of Jesus, which is very near, Acts 17:31, Matthew 25: 31-46.
I am afraid that you have allowed to befall you, just what was warned against, at Acts 13:40,41.
Agape!!!

 

[2ndpillar]

There is one thing that you know, but should think about. There are only three professions today, Law, Medical, and Religion! It takes many years to become proficient, versed, in either of these professions. Even though babes can understand when things are explained to them, it still takes time.

The oldest profession is considered by some to be prostitution. According to Genesis, the first profession was a farmer named Cain. As for babes, none get it but babes (Matthew 11:25), and the "wise and intelligent" are left in the cold.

 

[sooda]

The oldest profession is considered by some to be prostitution. According to Genesis, the first profession was a farmer named Cain. As for babes, none get it but babes (Matthew 11:25), and the "wise and intelligent" are left in the cold.

One doesn't have to be a gullible victims of charlatans and false prophets either.

 

[2ndpillar]

To the Christians dispersed among the nations Peter writes: "But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; who once were not a people but are now the people of God, who had not obtained mercy but now have obtained mercy" (1 Peter 2:9,10).

continued

You have chosen the "worthless shepherd" of Zechariah 11:16-27, Peter,the guy Satan asked to sift like wheat, a guy who Paul said was a apostle to the circumcised (Galatians 2:8) to misrepresent a quote taken from three different places in the bible, (Isaiah 43:20-22) which refers to Jacob/Israel, and Isaiah 61:6, with respect to Israel after the rejoining of Judah with Ephraim, and Deuteronomy 7:6, which refers to Israel. The "Stone of Stumbling" (1 Peter 2:8) is the "stone" the "Christians" and Israel both stumble over, but is addressed to Israel. (Isaiah 8:14).

 

[2ndpillar]

One doesn't have to be a gullible victims of charlatans and false prophets either.

Apparently, anyone not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world will be a victim of being "deceived" (Revelation 13:8 & 14). Those considering themselves "wise and intelligent" seem to fall the hardest.

 

[sooda]

Apparently, anyone not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world will be a victim of being "deceived" (Revelation 13:8 & 14). Those considering themselves "wise and intelligent" seem to fall the hardest.

That's not what Rev 13:8 says