Peace & Security or Sudden Destruction?

[Oeste]

I think yo must have misunderstood the OP. It may be because you didn't read it through thoroughly...

Ncache! Let’s break down your OP then. Then we can see if I’ve misunderstood the OP, or whether you simply misunderstood Thessalonians 5:3.

My thoughts.

Optimism runs high among many...
Will the Nations really bring Peace and Security, or will their cry spell Sudden Destruction?
1 Thessalonians 5:3 Whenever it is that they are saying, “Peace and security!” then sudden destruction is to be instantly on them, just like birth pains on a pregnant woman, and they will by no means escape. 

What we know...
CRIME & VIOLENCE
GLOBAL STUDY ON HOMICIDE 2013
Intentional homicide caused the deaths of almost half a million people (437,000) across the world in 2012.

Does the increased homicide rate make the nations more optimistic and likely to cry “peace and security” or less likely?

If increased death rates make nations more optimistic, and thus more likely to cry “peace and security”, can you explain exactly how this social dynamic interacts?

...I'm not certain, but the OP is not saying what you are saying....

Well let’s look at what it DOES say then:

Approximately 560,000 people lost their lives violently in 2016, meaning that, on average, interpersonal or collective violence killed at least one person every minute of every day of the year. For every person killed, many others suffered devastating consequences.

Perhaps I did misunderstand. Maybe you are quoting these things to show the nations are less likely to shout “peace and security” then at any time in recent history. But IMO, that does not explain why you think “Optimism run high among many”.

You might want to consider looking at it more carefully

I think we just did. But that's not all I've found.

 

[metis]

The ' Just War Theory ' <- is Not a teaching of Jesus.

It's an analysis of what Jesus taught in the context of the times, the situation, and Jewish Law. Your response simply does not reflect any of that, thus is dangerously bogus because it allows innocent people to be decimated by aggressive forces, whether that be on the personal level or the societal level. Therefore, it does it not stand up to common sense nor common decency, plus it encourages self-centeredness (not willing to help others in need), which is the opposite of that which Jesus taught.

Anyhow, it is too much in error to take a particular verse(s) and not put it into context, which is that which any good theologian will do.

Take care.

 

[Oeste]

This was directed to @metis

For some reason, you seem to be introducing argument not related in any way to the OP, or the thread.
The topic is not about JWs...

There is a lot more evidence, I could have mentioned, but I chose this, because it's more on a personal level.
However, I didn't create the thread to discuss JWs.

This @Hubert Farnsworth :

When you think about that, does it not make sense that there is a way worship that is different to religion of this world, which promotes peace and unity, among all its members?
Can you think of any "religion" at all, which does not allow for involvement in the political system, and wars?

I know of one, but I would be glad to hear of any you know of.

Since you advised @metis that JW’s have nothing to do with the topic and discussion, and there is no need “to be introducing argument not related in any way to the OP, or the thread.”, who is this religion that your being coy with, now that JW’s are eliminated from this topic?

 

[Deeje]

Yes, foretold in scripture but it’s not happening now.

The preliminaries of satan's world rulership have been unfolding for decades. It all set up and ready to go...just waiting for the right moment to introduce the solution that everyone has been waiting for. The propaganda will work.

@nPeace claimed that “Sudden Destruction” is “imminent” and he cites Thessalonians 5:3 in the OP.

Once the first domino falls, the rest will follow in quick succession, just like it did in 1914. A year when the prospects for peace had never been greater for the world....but then in an obscure place a man was assassinated and the events that followed plunged the whole world into a war that no one expected. That was the year we told people to watch out for.....we didn't know what was going to happen, but we publicized it anyway as a year of importance. As that year drew to a close, people though we had just failed again with indicating the fulfillment of prophesy.....but in October of that year....peace was taken away from the world and it has never recovered. The "last days" of the present system had begun.....all the features of the sign that Jesus gave have undergone fulfillment right before our eyes....the last few events are all that is needed to finish it all off. Not imminent? You can think so if you wish.

No one is running around shouting “peace and security” right now, so “sudden destruction” is not “imminent”. Why? Because the anti-Christ is not in power and he has not brought the vast majority of nations under his control. It is during the reign of the anti-Christ that people shout “peace and security” (even though there is no peace) unaware that God’s judgement will be suddenly upon them.

It will come from a direction that no one expects.....wait for it. (Matthew 24:42-44) Humans are suckers for propaganda.

When the anti-Christ is in control, you will hear how he has brought unity, peace and security on the earth, and you will read it in your newspapers and your social media, you will hear it on the radio, you will even see his glorious documentary on TV, but you won’t see it now. No one is claiming anything of the sort right now.

As I said, the mechanics of this 'one world government' have been in the works for decades. The powers that be will take control by deception and people will support what they think is the best solution to the problem that is being offered to a world in turmoil. The enforcers are already trained and ready to implement the change that is coming. You won't get much warning if you are taken in by the suggestion that "peace and security" can be accomplished by any human means.

As for the anti-Christ...."the Greek term has a twofold meaning. It refers to that which is anti, or opposed to, Christ. It may also refer to a false Christ, one in the place of Christ. All people, organizations, or groups that falsely claim to represent Christ or claim to be the Messiah or that oppose Christ and his disciples can properly be called antichrists.—1John 2:22."
(WT Online Library)

We patiently wait, (as we always have) knowing what is coming and having confidence in our God to sustain us through it.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

What are you talking about? It is historically obvious that the more religious the population of a society is, the more evil the society is (think about the burning of witches, Spanish Inquisition, and today radical fundamentalist Islam). Religiosity and evil are, as a rule, positively correlated. So, I don't know what will stop the evil in humanity, but I highly doubt it will be religion, and on historical evidence, it certainly won't be a return to fanatical Christianity.

That’s why John 13:34-35 is even more imperative! ‘All will recognize My disciples, by the love they have.’

And those that don’t....won’t.

Isaiah 2:2-4...”
2And it shall come to pass in the end of days, [that] the mountain of Jehovah's house shall be established on the top of the mountains, and shall be lifted up above the hills; and all the nations shall flow unto it.

3And many peoples shall go and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of Jehovah, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths. For out of Zion shall go forth the law, and Jehovah's word from Jerusalem.

4And he shall judge among the nations, and shall reprove many peoples; and they shall forge their swords into ploughshares, and their spears into pruning-knives: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.“

A global religion, that follows these tenets.

 

[savagewind]

Thessalonians 5:3 will be fulfilled, but there is nothing at present indicating it to be “imminent”.

Who or what will be doing the destroying of the wicked for 1 Thessalonians 5:3 to be fulfilled?

 

[Oeste]

Who or what will be doing the destroying of the wicked for 1 Thessalonians 5:3 to be fulfilled?

I like Matthew Henry's commentary:

Chapter 5
The apostle, having spoken in the end of the foregoing chapter concerning the resurrection, and the second coming of Christ, proceeds to speak concerning the uselessness of enquiring after the particular time of Christ’s coming, which would be sudden and terrible to the wicked, but comfortable to the saints (v. 1-5). He then exhorts them to the duties of watchfulness, sobriety, and the exercise of faith, love, and hope, as being suitable to their state (v. 6-10). In the next words he exhorts them to several duties they owed to others, or to one another (v. 11-15), afterwards to several other Christian duties of great importance (v. 16-22), and then concludes this epistle (v. 23-28).

Verses 1-5 In these words observe,I. The apostle tells the Thessalonians it was needless or useless to enquire about the particular time of Christ’s coming: Of the times and seasons you need not that I write unto you, v. 1. The thing is certain that Christ will come, and there is a certain time appointed for his coming; but there was no need that the apostle should write about this, and therefore he had no revelation given him; nor should they or we enquire into this secret, which the Father has reserved in his own power. Of that day and hour knoweth no man. Christ himself did not reveal this while upon earth; it was not in his commission as the great prophet of the church: nor did he reveal this to his apostles; there was no need of this. There are times and seasons for us to do our work in: these it is our duty and interest to know and observe; but the time and season when we must give up our account we know not, nor is it needful that we should know them. Note, There are many things which our vain curiosity desires to know which there is no necessity at all of our knowing, nor would our knowledge of them do us good.II. He tells them that the coming of Christ would be sudden, and a great surprise to most men, v. 2. And this is what they knew perfectly, or might know, because our Lord himself had so said: In such an hour as you think not, the Son of man cometh, Mt. 24:44 . So Mk. 13:35, Mk. 13:36 , Watch you therefore, for you know not when the master of the house cometh; lest, coming suddenly, he find you sleeping. And no doubt the apostle had told them, as of the coming of Christ, so also of his coming suddenly, which is the meaning of his coming as a thief in the night,Rev. 16:15 .

 

[Oeste]

New The preliminaries of satan's world rulership have been unfolding for decades. It all set up and ready to go...just waiting for the right moment to introduce the solution that everyone has been waiting for. The propaganda will work.

Once the first domino falls, the rest will follow in quick succession, just like it did in 1914. A year when the prospects for peace had never been greater for the world....but then in an obscure place a man was assassinated and the events that followed plunged the whole world into a war that no one expected. That was the year we told people to watch out for.....we didn't know what was going to happen, but we publicized it anyway as a year of importance. As that year drew to a close, people though we had just failed again with indicating the fulfillment of prophesy.....but in October of that year....peace was taken away from the world and it has never recovered. The "last days" of the present system had begun.....all the features of the sign that Jesus gave have undergone fulfillment right before our eyes....the last few events are all that is needed to finish it all off. Not imminent? You can think so if you wish.

It will come from a direction that no one expects.....wait for it. (Matthew 24:42-44) Humans are suckers for propaganda.

As I said, the mechanics of this 'one world government' have been in the works for decades. The powers that be will take control by deception and people will support what they think is the best solution to the problem that is being offered to a world in turmoil. The enforcers are already trained and ready to implement the change that is coming. You won't get much warning if you are taken in by the suggestion that "peace and security" can be accomplished by any human means.

As for the anti-Christ...."the Greek term has a twofold meaning. It refers to that which is anti, or opposed to, Christ. It may also refer to a false Christ, one in the place of Christ. All people, organizations, or groups that falsely claim to represent Christ or claim to be the Messiah or that oppose Christ and his disciples can properly be called antichrists.—1John 2:22."
(WT Online Library)

We patiently wait, (as we always have) knowing what is coming and having confidence in our God to sustain us through it.

I appreciate the time and effort you placed in your response Deeje. I think it was a good one, however we are going to disagree on the meaning of the word "imminent" and what I think is a rather unhealthy and unnecessary focus on the last days.

We all have jobs to do as Christians, and while we wait we must endure.

"You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come" (Matthew 24:6)

Nations continue to rise up against nations just as they always have, but nation against nation, kingdom against kingdom as described at Matthew 24:7? Not yet. Mat 24:7 describes individual nations and provinces struggling to survive, feed, and protect their constituents at the expense of the other due to the cataclysms unleashed in Revelation.

We're not there yet.

 

[savagewind]

I like Matthew Henry's commentary:

Chapter 5
The apostle, having spoken in the end of the foregoing chapter concerning the resurrection, and the second coming of Christ, proceeds to speak concerning the uselessness of enquiring after the particular time of Christ’s coming, which would be sudden and terrible to the wicked, but comfortable to the saints (v. 1-5). He then exhorts them to the duties of watchfulness, sobriety, and the exercise of faith, love, and hope, as being suitable to their state (v. 6-10). In the next words he exhorts them to several duties they owed to others, or to one another (v. 11-15), afterwards to several other Christian duties of great importance (v. 16-22), and then concludes this epistle (v. 23-28).

Verses 1-5 In these words observe,I. The apostle tells the Thessalonians it was needless or useless to enquire about the particular time of Christ’s coming: Of the times and seasons you need not that I write unto you, v. 1. The thing is certain that Christ will come, and there is a certain time appointed for his coming; but there was no need that the apostle should write about this, and therefore he had no revelation given him; nor should they or we enquire into this secret, which the Father has reserved in his own power. Of that day and hour knoweth no man. Christ himself did not reveal this while upon earth; it was not in his commission as the great prophet of the church: nor did he reveal this to his apostles; there was no need of this. There are times and seasons for us to do our work in: these it is our duty and interest to know and observe; but the time and season when we must give up our account we know not, nor is it needful that we should know them. Note, There are many things which our vain curiosity desires to know which there is no necessity at all of our knowing, nor would our knowledge of them do us good.II. He tells them that the coming of Christ would be sudden, and a great surprise to most men, v. 2. And this is what they knew perfectly, or might know, because our Lord himself had so said: In such an hour as you think not, the Son of man cometh, Mt. 24:44 . So Mk. 13:35, Mk. 13:36 , Watch you therefore, for you know not when the master of the house cometh; lest, coming suddenly, he find you sleeping. And no doubt the apostle had told them, as of the coming of Christ, so also of his coming suddenly, which is the meaning of his coming as a thief in the night,Rev. 16:15 .

So, are you saying that it is Christ who will destroy all wicked people? Who are they whom Christ will destroy? Because it is to be "fulfilled" is it not premeditated?

 

[savagewind]

I can see that Christians (not all!) are accusing Jesus of premeditated murder. If life unfolds on the Earth like they say it will according to their interpretation of the Word of God, there will never be peace. Ever! That's right. Even after what you assume really happens to all "the wicked" it will have happened by premeditated murder. I am not making this up. YOU are.

You know what I mean. I hate when they play dumb.

 

[savagewind]

You don't? It is because your way is your king getting his way by killing people.

 

[nPeace]

Ncache! Let’s break down your OP then. Then we can see if I’ve misunderstood the OP, or whether you simply misunderstood Thessalonians 5:3.


Does the increased homicide rate make the nations more optimistic and likely to cry “peace and security” or less likely?

Less likely, seems obvious to me.

If increased death rates make nations more optimistic, and thus more likely to cry “peace and security”, can you explain exactly how this social dynamic interacts?

That is not what the OP is saying.

Well let’s look at what it DOES say then:


Perhaps I did misunderstand. Maybe you are quoting these things to show the nations are less likely to shout “peace and security” then at any time in recent history. But IMO, that does not explain why you think “Optimism run high among many”.


I think we just did. But that's not all I've found.

Not perhaps. I told you, you didn't understand.
No. Let me explain.

I don't know if you have ever dealt with anything called an outline.
Some documents use an outline, which consists of an introducing - in some cases, an overview, a body, and a conclusion.
There are in actuality three parts, or divisions. Ah. You believe the Trinity, don't you? There you go - three in one. Each performing different functions, but all making up the whole.
I'll just show you the introduction, you can figure out the other parts,

Spoiler: Introduction

Optimism runs high among many...
Will the Nations really bring Peace and Security, or will their cry spell Sudden Destruction?
1 Thessalonians 5:3 Whenever it is that they are saying, “Peace and security!” then sudden destruction is to be instantly on them, just like birth pains on a pregnant woman, and they will by no means escape. 

Once you read the introduction, just break slightly, then consider some facts not connected to the introduction by chronology, yet containing information that relates to it.
I hope I haven't confused you. Otherwise, you'd better dump the Trinity, since it's not helping you.
Regardless... it's still a good idea to lose it.

The part containing the coming call for Peace and Security is mentioned in the body (I hope you opened and read the spoilers).
The conclusion is quite brief, but I hope you get the point.

 

[nPeace]

This was directed to @metis



This @Hubert Farnsworth :



Since you advised @metis that JW’s have nothing to do with the topic and discussion, and there is no need “to be introducing argument not related in any way to the OP, or the thread.”, who is this religion that your being coy with, now that JW’s are eliminated from this topic?

What do you mean, "JWs have nothing to do with the topic"? How will it be any fun without us involved? Kidding.

I said I didn't create the thread to discuss JWs.
In other words, things like why we refuse blood transfusions; Why we drag our children through the hot sun... etc. etc. a whole long list which I won't mention, since I am not discussing JWs, then I think it would be better to have a separate thread - Although those have already come up many times.

I didn't say one shouldn't mention JWs - which there is a difference between mentioning and discussing.
I'm not sure if there is much difference between @metis and @Hubert Farnsworth, but it seems to me, there were some posts that had no relation to the thread, so I encourage metis to present an argument against something in the OP, if he wanted, because I wasn't interested in... as I said.
However, I won't complain anymore.

The point that was raised about religious role in violence was a very good point imo, because I think it does shed some light on the problem of increasing crime and violence.
So it's a question worth answering, and I think it is important to make the point that the scriptures show that indeed as is evident to all, including Hubert, religion is part of the corrupt system.

I did throw out the question that given an answer, one would have to think about religion specifically, which could lead to discussing JWs, so I see your point.
However, I wasn't being coy. Honestly.
It was an innocent discussion that could or could not lead to mentioning JWs, which could or could not lead to discussing them. Hmmm.

Anyway, point taken.
Thanks for the observation.
Discuss away.

So were you mentioning JWs, or did you have something else in mind?

 

[nPeace]

Sorry @Deeje, I'm not responding to you. I think RF has some issues. I'm not sure what's being done. I hope @Oeste realizes the posts to him.

 

[danieldemol]

My thoughts.

Optimism runs high among many...
Will the Nations really bring Peace and Security, or will their cry spell Sudden Destruction?
1 Thessalonians 5:3 Whenever it is that they are saying, “Peace and security!” then sudden destruction is to be instantly on them, just like birth pains on a pregnant woman, and they will by no means escape. 

What we know...
CRIME & VIOLENCE
GLOBAL STUDY ON HOMICIDE 2013
Intentional homicide caused the deaths of almost half a million people (437,000) across the world in 2012.

Homicide rate
In 2015 an estimated 470 000 people worldwide were victims of homicide (global rate of 6.4 per 100 000).

Paying attention...
The Quest For Peace and Security
GLOBAL VIOLENT DEATHS 2017 - Time to Decide
.....
Approximately 560,000 people lost their lives violently in 2016, meaning that, on average, interpersonal or collective violence killed at least one person every minute of every day of the year. For every person killed, many others suffered devastating consequences.

Can man solve the problem...?
The UN's Agenda...

Spoiler: Agenda 2030 (Agenda 21)

At the global level, there is a growing desire to identify strategies to prevent violence and violent deaths. The international community recognizes the need to prioritize conflict prevention by tackling the root causes of tensions, helping to build and strengthen institutions, and ...
At the national level, a growing number of states have invested in promoting initiatives to prevent crime and violence (WHO, UNODC, and UNDP, 2014, p. 27).

The 2030 Agenda for Sustainable Development has the potential to usher in much needed changes. When world leaders gathered at the United Nations in September 2015 to adopt a landmark blueprint for global development, they recognized peaceful societies as a prerequisite for all 17 Sustainable Development Goals (SDGs) of the 2030 Agenda — and as a goal in its own right. In committing to Goal 16, all states pledge to promote ‘peaceful and inclusive societies for sustainable development, provide access to justice for all and build effective, accountable and inclusive institutions at all levels’ (UNGA, 2015, p. 25). The 2030 Agenda is the first universal framework to make an explicit connection between violence, conflict, and development, stating that ‘sustainable development cannot be realized without peace and security; and peace and security will be at risk without sustainable development’ .
.....
The 2030 Agenda thus calls for an unprecedented global shift in attention towards a reduction in violent deaths as a means of facilitating global development.

The 2030 Agenda for Sustainable Development, adopted by all United Nations Member States in 2015, provides a shared blueprint for peace and prosperity for people and the planet, now and into the future. At its heart are the 17 Sustainable Development Goals (SDGs), which are an urgent call for action by all countries - developed and developing - in a global partnership. They recognize that ending poverty and other deprivations must go hand-in-hand with strategies that improve health and education, reduce inequality, and spur economic growth – all while tackling climate change and working to preserve our oceans and forests.

UN Sustainable Development Goals

Do you know all 17 SDGs?

Spoiler: UN Goals

Transforming our world: the 2030 Agenda for Sustainable Development .:. Sustainable Development Knowledge Platform
Goal 1. End poverty in all its forms everywhere
Goal 2. End hunger, achieve food security and improved nutrition and promote sustainable agriculture
Goal 3. Ensure healthy lives and promote wellJbeing for all at all ages
Goal 4. Ensure inclusive and equitable quality education and promote lifelong learning opportunities for all
Goal 5. Achieve gender equality and empower all women and girls
Goal 6. Ensure availability and sustainable management of water and sanitation for all
Goal 7. Ensure access to affordable, reliable, sustainable and modern energy for all
Goal 8. Promote sustained, inclusive and sustainable economic growth, full and productive employment and decent work for all
Goal 9. Build resilient infrastructure, promote inclusive and sustainable industrialization and foster innovation
Goal 10. Reduce inequality within and among countries
Goal 11. Make cities and human settlements inclusive, safe, resilient and sustainable
Goal 12. Ensure sustainable consumption and production patterns
Goal 13. Take urgent action to combat climate change and its impacts*
Goal 14. Conserve and sustainably use the oceans, seas and marine resources for sustainable development
Goal 15. Protect, restore and promote sustainable use of terrestrial ecosystems, sustainably manage forests, combat desertification, and halt and reverse land degradation and halt biodiversity loss
Goal 16. Promote peaceful and inclusive societies for sustainable development, provide access to justice for all and build effective, accountable and inclusive institutions at all levels
Goal 17. Strengthen the means of implementation and revitalize the Global Partnership for Sustainable Development

Milestones

Will man accomplish it?
Or...
Are the problems too huge for man to solve?
It seems the problems are too big for man, for a number of reasons - man's nature (Romans 1:28-32; 5:12; Galatians 5:19-21), and man's enemy (Ephesians 6:12; Revelation 12:12)
[GALLERY=media, 8849]Problems by nPeace posted Jan 29, 2019 at 3:57 AM[/GALLERY]
Thus man needs a big hand.
Has anyone shown themselves competent for the job? Yes.
There is Concrete Evidence Jehovah's Will Successful get the Job done.

Spoiler: An Universal Educational Program that Is Effective...

Jehovah proves that he is successful at teaching his subjects how to live in peace.
Isaiah 2:3, 4
They will have to beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning shears. Nation will not lift up sword against nation, neither will they learn war anymore.
Millions of JWs all around the world are learning from God how to be peaceable. (Matthew 5:9) Although they make up hundreds of different ethnic groups and live in over 239 different lands, they refuse to take up arms against their fellow man, and endeavor to be united in love, and thought. (1 Corinthians 1:10)

However, the nations reject God's rulership - Psalms 2:1-3
That's too bad though, because like it or not the earth belongs to Jehovah... and according to the Bible, he's taking over. So I guess that means... it's war!
...but first... a call for peace. : After all, Jehovah is a merciful God - abundant in loyal love and a lover of Justice.

Spoiler: Call For Peace

Psalm 2:4-12
4 The One enthroned in the heavens will laugh; Jehovah will scoff at them. 5 At that time he will speak to them in his anger And terrify them in his burning anger, 6 Saying: “I myself have installed my king On Zion, my holy mountain.” ... 10 So now, you kings, show insight; Accept correction, you judges of the earth. 11 Serve Jehovah with fear, And rejoice with trembling. 12 Honor the son, or God will become indignant And you will perish from the way, For His anger flares up quickly. Happy are all those taking refuge in Him.

The proud want's no peace with God though. So... Here are Jehovah's Decrees, as outlined in his word.
What God’s Kingdom will do...

Spoiler: Decrees of God's Kingdom

Decree 1. Replace all human governments and rule over the entire earth. (Daniel 2:44; Revelation 16:14)
Decree 2. Remove the wicked, whose selfishness harms us all. - Psalms 37:9-11, 29; Proverbs 2:22.
Decree 3. End all wars. - Psalm 46:9.
Decree 4. Bring prosperity and security to the earth. - Micah 4:4
Decree 5. Make the earth into a paradise. - Isaiah 35:1
Decree 6. Provide everyone with meaningful, enjoyable work. - Isaiah 65:21-23.
Decree 7. Eliminate disease and bring perfect health. - Isaiah 33:24; 35:5, 6.
Decree 8. Set us free from the aging process. - Job 33:25.
Decree 9. Bring the dead back to life. - John 5:28, 29.
Decree 10. Unite all mankind in pure worship of the true God. (Jeremiah 16:20, 21)
Decree 11. End all "natural" disasters. (Revelation 11:18) . . .to bring to ruin those ruining the earth.

From the Biblical perspective, and the way I see it, only Jehovah can succeed in ending poverty worldwide, and make it possible for all to have truly happy lives....
What optimistic views do you have about stopping the level of corruption involved in the ongoing business of mafia's rodeo?
Do you still think man can stop corruption?

So Peace and Security it appears, will be a reality, but not by man.
That's the way I see it. What are your thoughts?

For me the great tragedy of all this is that it seems to propose that since man can’t have an idealised state of Uber-peace, he should give up his attempt to struggle for what peace he can obtain.

The UN goals are highly praisworthy and will have a more positive impact on the world than no attempt and I see criticism of their lofty ideals on your part as part of the weakness of your ideology.

 

[savagewind]

Sorry @Deeje, I'm not responding to you. I think RF has some issues. I'm not sure what's being done. I hope @Oeste realizes the posts to him.

her

 

[savagewind]

For me the great tragedy of all this is that it seems to propose that since man can’t have an idealised state of Uber-peace, he should give up his attempt to struggle for what peace he can obtain.

The UN goals are highly praisworthy and will have a more positive impact on the world than no attempt and I see criticism of their lofty ideals on your part as part of the weakness of your ideology.

Weakness......or worse?

 

[nPeace]

For me the great tragedy of all this is that it seems to propose that since man can’t have an idealised state of Uber-peace, he should give up his attempt to struggle for what peace he can obtain.

The UN goals are highly praisworthy and will have a more positive impact on the world than no attempt and I see criticism of their lofty ideals on your part as part of the weakness of your ideology.

I agree with anyone making an honest and sincere, un-hypocritical genuine effort for good.
Is that what's happening here?
Your optimism, like many others, run high.

There are others that are not that optimistic. Not because they don't want good, or they don't agree with, or wouldn't like to see all nationalities of people of all languages united in peace, for good.
They just don't see any evidence for it.

However, they see evidence of the promise of peace and security, through the means expressed, contrary to human promises.
Is that a good thing, or bad, in your view?

 

[savagewind]

SIGH

 

[savagewind]

I agree with anyone making an honest and sincere, un-hypocritical genuine effort for good.
Is that what's happening here?
Your optimism, like many others, run high.

There are others that are not that optimistic. Not because they don't want good, or they don't agree with, or wouldn't like to see all nationalities of people of all languages united in peace, for good.
They just don't see any evidence for it.

However, they see evidence of the promise of peace and security, through the means expressed, contrary to human promises.
Is that a good thing, or bad, in your view?

Have you imagined for one half of a second that nobody might be able to imagine peace because YOU SAY IT IS NOT POSSIBLE (without doing it your way)?