People of color.

[ChristineM]

I do associate the term with the US.

I do too, the first time i heard the phrase was by Halle Berry giving her speach after recieving an oscar.

 

[ChristineM]

So they're "persons of no color"?

Right, completely inaccurate phrase

 

[Revoltingest]

Right, completely inaccurate phrase

Labels are just nominal things...seldom precise.
But this is profitable for lawyers, who sued big box stores
here for "2 by fours" not being exactly 2" by 4".

 

[Debater Slayer]

My point is; why would someone who is against bigotry and racism, embrace terms coined by bigots and racists?

Terms evolve and change meanings over time. I don't think most people who use the term "people of color" today do so with any racist intentions.

 

[JDMS]

Yeah; the term "people of color" is a term originated in the US so I can understand it not being a thing in Middle East Asia. As far as a need to make clear when referring to a minority vs majority, why not just use the term "minority" or "majority"? At least using that term will include far east Asians as well as all the other minorities, the term people of color seems to exclude them.

I agree that "minority" and "majority" make more sense to use as an East Asian man myself, though, I think people who use the phrase "people of color" are referring to Asians as well, because what they really mean is a minority, just as you say. I do find it strange that we use terms coined by white supremacists and racists now. In fact, the term "white" itself has become diluted from its real meaning as an American term. The US Census counts "white" as those from European, Middle Eastern, or North African countries, yet people nowadays insist Middle Eastern people are people of color. This is one of many reasons the term doesn't work well; minority is a much better fit.

Also, I find it strange how often people sit down and make blanket statements about what difficulties minorities face in the US at all. For example, people will say minorities or people of color experience high rates of police brutality, when in reality, East Asians like myself experience very low rates of police brutality, even less than white populations. Also, East Asians are seen as "the model minority" and so we can get into jobs and universities much easier than most black or Hispanic people can. Our deportation rates are lower too. Very few care about illegal immigrants from Asian countries.

Race is just a very complicated topic, unfortunately.

 

[ChristineM]

Labels are just nominal things...seldom precise.
But this is profitable for lawyers, who sued big box stores
here for "2 by fours" not being exactly 2" by 4".

2x4 par is less than 2x4. It was 2x4 before it was planed.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I'm not white, myself, and I find the term "people of color" extremely American-centric and limited. Nobody I know where I live (in the Middle East) would describe themselves as being "of color," nor would most think of that as a primary identifying factor about themselves. Many of us even look white or white-ish as far as skin color goes.

That said, I can see the usefulness of the term in the context of the US and other white-majority countries. Sometimes there's a need to make it clear whether one is referring to the majority or a minority, and the term "people of color" serves a purpose there.

Saying people of color or colored people isn't an indicator of racism.

I would take those who are racist would refer to more derogatory uses of how they would describe people that are not all that flattering for the recipient.

 

[Kfox]

Terms evolve and change meanings over time. I don't think most people who use the term "people of color" today do so with any racist intentions.

So how is the term people of color used differently today, than it was used when it was coined by bigots?

 

[exchemist]

What' the difference between color vs colour?

The Atlantic.

 

[Revoltingest]

2x4 par is less than 2x4. It was 2x4 before it was planed.

Perhaps once.
But I'm sure they wouldn't tolerate that much waste.
There's also shrinkage from drying.

 

[Debater Slayer]

So how is the term people of color used differently today, than it was used when it was coined by bigots?

Nowadays, it's mainly used in the US to refer to non-white people in contexts where white people are the majority. Most of its usage is not motivated by racism or malice, whereas a bigot's usage of it would have obviously been based on different motives.

 

[exchemist]

So how is the term people of color used differently today, than it was used when it was coined by bigots?

My understanding is that now it's intended as a respectful way of talking of racial groups that can be at a disadvantage in a predominantly white society. But I admit I had to laugh when you pointed out the term "people of colour" was originally used in a negative way. Frankly it's impossible to keep up with the way these terms change. The old term "negro" is simply Spanish for "black" and was used in the former Spanish colonies to refer to black people. However it acquired a negative connotation and eventually came to be considered demeaning, hence we subsequently got other terms, like African-American (in the US) and so forth.

Like you, though, I've always hated the term "people of colour". It seems so artificial and precious - and also rather uninformative, since it lumps together all the groups that don't have white skin. So I take your point that, by defining people in terms of what they are not, it could be taken as potentially demeaning. Here in the UK, we obviously can't use "African American" and, as we have black people both originally from the Caribbean and from Africa itself, it seems to me the best description - which thankfully remains neutral (I think? ) - is "black".

But as a white person I find these debates about racial terminology are often shark-infested waters.

(By the way, the stupidest racial classification of all, to my mind, is the one used by US immigration authorities when you fly into the US. You have to say whether you are "Caucasian" or "Hispanic" etc. Now Caucasian is supposed to mean "white", though Nordic people are nothing like those you find in the actual Caucasus, while Hispanic just means Spanish - and Spanish people are white, i.e. just as Caucasian as people from the Caucasus. But in fact, Hispanic seems to be a sort of code for mixed Spanish and Native South American ancestry.........if you can make sense of that you're a better man than I am. )

 

[F1fan]

Terms evolve and change meanings over time. I don't think most people who use the term "people of color" today do so with any racist intentions.

I see the phrase used when it is referring to a collection of minority groups, like those of African, Middle East, and South American heritage. I also notice the use is political and in response to broad discrimination by certain groups. I've noticed it used mostly against the far right, with one example being how they call a group of minority, female represenatives "The Squad".

There is a distinction about the meanings and intentions of certain words depending on who the person is. Decent people will avoid using certain words all together when they carry a racist meaning. When we see a movie with characters using racist words we know it is the actor reciting a script. But we can see examples of victims of racism appropriating racist words for their own use, which society accepts.

 

[Kfox]

Nowadays, it's mainly used in the US to refer to non-white people in contexts where white people are the majority.

I don’t think minority/majority has anything to do with it; otherwise the terms minority/majority would be used.

Most of its usage is not motivated by racism or malice, whereas a bigot's usage of it would have obviously been based on different motives.

As I mentioned before; I think most who use it are unaware of it’s roots but use it because they heard someone else use the term.

 

[Kfox]

My understanding is that now it's intended as a respectful way of talking of racial groups that can be at a disadvantage in a predominantly white society.

But Asians are described as people of color even though it is hard to make the case that they are disadvantaged by white society when they out preform white society.

But I admit I had to laugh when you pointed out the term "people of colour" was originally used in a negative way. Frankly it's impossible to keep up with the way these terms change.

As mentioned before, I think the term was brought back as a way of being negative against white people; an attempt to combine all other races in one group in opposition to white people. Today I think it allows people to speak bigoted without using terms that sound bigoted. Consider the 2 sentences:

1. I want to help people of color
2. I want to help everybody except white people

For me to use 1. it sounds altruistic, good, and could even make me feel good about myself; as if I wanted to help the needy, even though not all non white people are in need and many white people are.
For me to use 2. makes me sound like a bigot who hates white people and will make me feel bad about myself if I wish to consider myself a fair and decent person.

Though both terms are equally bigoted, the term people of color allows me to speak as a bigot without actually feeling like one.

 

[Ella S.]

So how is the term people of color used differently today, than it was used when it was coined by bigots?

The term BIPOC (black, indigenous, people of color) has been used specifically by those who wish to reclaim the term and champion the equal rights of minority ethnic and racial groups, usually as a way of unifying those within them to work together towards equality. I'm personally not a fan of the phrase, myself, but it is used with benevolent intentions in those contexts.

As mentioned before, I think the term was brought back as a way of being negative against white people; an attempt to combine all other races in one group in opposition to white people. Today I think it allows people to speak bigoted without using terms that sound bigoted. Consider the 2 sentences:

1. I want to help people of color
2. I want to help everybody except white people

For me to use 1. it sounds altruistic, good, and could even make me feel good about myself; as if I wanted to help the needy, even though not all non white people are in need and many white people are.
For me to use 2. makes me sound like a bigot who hates white people and will make me feel bad about myself if I wish to consider myself a fair and decent person.

Though both terms are equally bigoted, the term people of color allows me to speak as a bigot without actually feeling like one.

I don't think it's bigoted to prioritize issues that disproportionately affect ethnic and racial minorities or deal with racial equality over other causes, just as I don't think it's sexist for feminists to focus on issues that women deal with or cisheterophobic for the LGBT movement to focus on issues that queer people deal with.

I'm aro-ace, and I also don't think people are acephobes for getting involved with environmental activism or veganism. Just because they care about these other causes and choose to spend their time pursuing them over mine, that doesn't mean that they hate me or want to drown out my cause. We can't all commit our entire lives to every worthy cause out there. At some point, we have to choose which causes are the most important to us.

I can understand that not doing more to support specific causes can come from a place of bigotry and why this prioritization can be troubling, but it's also unavoidable because of our mortal limitations. If someone told me that they want to help people of color, I would not assume they were being antagonistic towards white people. I would think they wanted to focus on resolving issues regarding racial inequality and that they care enough about those specific problems to attend to them with more primacy.

 

[Kfox]

The term BIPOC (black, indigenous, people of color) has been used specifically by those who wish to reclaim the term and champion the equal rights of minority ethnic and racial groups, usually as a way of unifying those within them to work together towards equality. I'm personally not a fan of the phrase, myself, but it is used with benevolent intentions in those contexts.

So BIPOC refers to Black people and Native Americans? What do they have in common that other black and brown people do not? And why not just say Blacks and Native Americans?

I don't think it's bigoted to prioritize issues that disproportionately affect ethnic and racial minorities or deal with racial equality over other causes, just as I don't think it's sexist for feminists to focus on issues that women deal with or cisheterophobic for the LGBT movement to focus on issues that queer people deal with.

Did you consider it bigoted when David Duke said the KKK was not anti-black, but pro-white? I would be a hypocrite to proclaim I want to prioritize issues that disproportionately affect my race, but then turn around and point the finger at someone else who says the same thing about their race.

 

[Ella S.]

So BIPOC refers to Black people and Native Americans? What do they have in common that other black and brown people do not? And why not just say Blacks and Native Americans?

Did you consider it bigoted when David Duke said the KKK was not anti-black, but pro-white? I would be a hypocrite to proclaim I want to prioritize issues that disproportionately affect my race, but then turn around and point the finger at someone else who says the same thing about their race.

To the first question, I am not confident enough that I can answer that impartially from their perspective. You would have to look into it and ask them.

To the second question, of course I consider that bigoted, but the context is different. The KKK is exclusivist and supremacist. It creates a racial in-group and out-group, so when it says that it is pro-white it genuinely is implying that it is also anti-black. That's quite different from focusing on, say, picking up garbage in the park of a white-majority community or teaching the history of how Irish immigrants overcame the struggles of indentured servitude, which are ways of being pro-white that do not necessarily create a racial division.

I also think it's bigoted to squash movements that focus on trying to promote racial equality for specific groups by conflating them with the KKK, and I think it's bigoted to think that tackling issues which mostly or exclusive affect white people always has to make you a white supremacist.

 

[Kfox]

To the first question, I am not confident enough that I can answer that impartially from their perspective. You would have to look into it and ask them.

I don’t think blacks and Native americans have anything in common that they don’t have in common with other races either.

To the second question, of course I consider that bigoted, but the context is different. The KKK is exclusivist and supremacist.

Isn’t saying you only want to help people of color just as exclusive and supremacist?

It creates a racial in-group and out-group, so when it says that it is pro-white it genuinely is implying that it is also anti-black.

Doesn't saying you only want to help people of color create racial in-groups and out-groups implying that it is also anti-white?

I also think it's bigoted to squash movements that focus on trying to promote racial equality for specific groups by conflating them with the KKK, and I think it's bigoted to think that tackling issues which mostly or exclusive affect white people always has to make you a white supremacist.

So if a white person who was not a part of the KKK started a pro-white movement, you would not judge that movement as racist?

 

[The Hammer]

I was having a conversation with a white person who referred to me and people like me as people/persons of color. I responded by referring to him and people like him as people/persons of color. He responded that people of color consist of only black or brown people, and I retorted white is just as much of a color as black, brown, or anything else and if he wanted to refer to black or brown people, he should use those words rather than something vague and incorrect. Upon further investigation I found out the term was originally coined by 17th century racists who wanted to distinguish white people from non whites, but fell out of favor shortly afterwords only to be brought back in the 1970’s by black and brown racists who wanted to separate white people from all the other races. Most of the people I know who use the term are not bigots or racists yet use the term coined by bigots and racists. Are these people just parroting something they’ve heard someone else use without thinking what these words actually mean? Or something else? Your thoughts?

My thoughts are you aren't POC. And this just meant to start a debate, framed as "from a concerned POC".