"People who have faith . . . are not as smart as others"

[Skwim]

"Conflict between science, religion lies in our brains

Clashes between the use of faith vs. scientific evidence to explain the world around us dates back centuries and is perhaps most visible today in the arguments between evolution and creationism.

To believe in a supernatural god or universal spirit, people appear to suppress the brain network used for analytical thinking and engage the empathetic network, the scientists say. When thinking analytically about the physical world, people appear to do the opposite.

"When there's a question of faith, from the analytic point of view, it may seem absurd," said Tony Jack, who led the research. "But, from what we understand about the brain, the leap of faith to belief in the supernatural amounts to pushing aside the critical/analytical way of thinking to help us achieve greater social and emotional insight."

"A stream of research in cognitive psychology has shown and claims that people who have faith (i.e., are religious or spiritual) are not as smart as others. They actually might claim they are less intelligent.," said Richard Boyatzis, distinguished university professor and professor of organizational behavior at Case Western Reserve, and a member of Jack's team.

"Our studies confirmed that statistical relationship, but at the same time showed that people with faith are more prosocial and empathic," he said."
source
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I find this very surprising. I've always attributed the refusal of the faithful to consider the significance of science in explaining the world, to their need to hold fast to the security of religion. Not that it's an actual inability.



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[Deathbydefault]

Well the masses of people in the world aren't really super excited by objective knowledge, truths discovered, and philosophical skepticism.
They're happier with things that are simpler to understand, like "God exists so have faith".
They don't care to outright question it, which is funny because they fault pretty quickly when you make them question it.

 

[Riverwolf]

A couple things.

I should note that claiming that such people are overall "less intelligent" for blocking the necessary pathways for analytical thinking is not terribly accurate. Intelligence takes many forms, being a reference more to several cognitive abilities (of which analytical/critical thinking is just one), rather than to a single aspect of the brain.

Also,

"Our studies confirmed that statistical relationship, but at the same time showed that people with faith are more prosocial and empathic," he said."
source
​

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(Bold part mine.)

This part doesn't surprise me at all, and because of this correlation, I question whether religion is, itself, the reason for this disparity.

Consider this: the dominant religion in the USA is Christianity. In that religion, it is strongly encouraged to attend a very social gathering every Sunday to engage in something that everyone present has deep emotional connections to. Now, as I understand it, sharing deep emotions with people is one of the most effective ways to build bonds with them. Hence why BFF relationships can quickly develop solely over the deeply shared love for a piece of media. Super-fans also often have (often well-earned) reputations for being... irrational, when it comes to being critical of the thing they love.

It doesn't surprise me at all, therefore, that people who engage in religious or spiritual things in groups, tend to be very sociable and "empathic" (do they mean empathetic?).

In everyday life, knowledge of how to navigate the hyper-complex world of socializing, with the billions of microcommunications most people aren't consciously aware of and wild emotional fluxuations that come from interacting with large numbers of people (at least for me), is FAR more useful than knowledge of how to calculate how much Delta-V is needed to get to Mars.

 

[Quintessence]

Kind of unsurprising, considering religion is like an art, not a science - and analytical thinking is rubbish when you're trying to do art.

 

[lovesong]

I really cannot believe this. Being of faith in and of itself does not cause a decrease in intelligence and faith is not a product of unintelligence. Some of history's (and today's) greatest minds have been religious. Yes, throughout history people have used religion as a means of rejecting science, and I'm sure that there is a correlation between religion and overall intelligence because there is a great deal of people who, to this day, say "well I can't understand it, it doesn't make sense to me, so it must be God," but remember, correlation does not imply causality.

 

[Scott C.]

"Conflict between science, religion lies in our brains

Clashes between the use of faith vs. scientific evidence to explain the world around us dates back centuries and is perhaps most visible today in the arguments between evolution and creationism.

To believe in a supernatural god or universal spirit, people appear to suppress the brain network used for analytical thinking and engage the empathetic network, the scientists say. When thinking analytically about the physical world, people appear to do the opposite.

"When there's a question of faith, from the analytic point of view, it may seem absurd," said Tony Jack, who led the research. "But, from what we understand about the brain, the leap of faith to belief in the supernatural amounts to pushing aside the critical/analytical way of thinking to help us achieve greater social and emotional insight."

"A stream of research in cognitive psychology has shown and claims that people who have faith (i.e., are religious or spiritual) are not as smart as others. They actually might claim they are less intelligent.," said Richard Boyatzis, distinguished university professor and professor of organizational behavior at Case Western Reserve, and a member of Jack's team.

"Our studies confirmed that statistical relationship, but at the same time showed that people with faith are more prosocial and empathic," he said."
source
​

I find this very surprising. I've always attributed the refusal of the faithful to consider the significance of science in explaining the world to their need to hold fast to the security of religion. Not that it's an actual inability.


I just noticed this OP might fit in better in the Science and Religion Forum. If the mods agree, please move it. Thank you.

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People of faith possess scientific intelligence as well as spiritual intelligence, the ability to perceive the realities of the eternal world and the meaning of life. People with no faith lack this type of of intelligence. But there is hope. With a little training and practice, they too can master both. After all, "the glory of God is intelligence, or in other words light and truth."

Seriously, the way some atheists here congratulate each other on their intellectual superiority is nauseating.

 

[Deathbydefault]

People of faith possess scientific intelligence as well as spiritual intelligence, the ability to perceive the realities of the eternal world and the meaning of life. People with no faith lack this type of of intelligence. But there is hope. With a little training and practice, they too can master both. After all, "the glory of God is intelligence, or in other words light and truth."

Seriously, the way some atheists here congratulate each other on their intellectual superiority is nauseating.

I think it's rather amusing that some suggest that "spiritual intelligence" is an actual thing...

 

[lovesong]

I think it's rather amusing that some suggest that "spiritual intelligence" is an actual thing...

How so?

 

[Deathbydefault]

How so?

Because it would somehow imply that a person is more overall intelligent simply by practicing spirituality.
Along with spirituality being a fluid and non-objective subject.

 

[Skwim]

I really cannot believe this. Being of faith in and of itself does not cause a decrease in intelligence and faith is not a product of unintelligence.

But that's not what the science says. What evidence do you have that they're wrong?

People of faith possess scientific intelligence as well as spiritual intelligence, the ability to perceive the realities of the eternal world and the meaning of life.

Specifically, what is scientific intelligence, and what is spiritual intelligence?

People with no faith lack this type of of intelligence. But there is hope. With a little training and practice, they too can master both. After all, "the glory of God is intelligence, or in other words light and truth."

Okay, I get it. Your making up stuff as you go along. Never mind.

Seriously, the way some atheists here congratulate each other on their intellectual superiority is nauseating.

Hmmm. I've been here a while and can't remember seeing this. Got a few examples?


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[Scott C.]

I think it's rather amusing that some suggest that "spiritual intelligence" is an actual thing...

laugh away

 

[Deathbydefault]

laugh away

I am.

 

[lovesong]

Because it would somehow imply that a person is more overall intelligent simply by practicing spirituality.
Along with spirituality being a fluid and non-objective subject.

Spirituality is fluid and non-objective.
Saying spiritual intelligence is like saying social intelligence. Neither increase academic intelligence (which is what I'm guessing you're referring to when you say overall), but they are a separate type of intelligence in their own right.

 

[lovesong]

But that's not what the science says. What evidence do you have that they're wrong?

Every scientist throughout history who has held religious beliefs. Every spiritual person who holds above average grades, or graduates at the top of their class.

 

[Deathbydefault]

Spirituality is fluid and non-objective.
Saying spiritual intelligence is like saying social intelligence. Neither increase academic intelligence (which is what I'm guessing you're referring to when you say overall), but they are a separate type of intelligence in their own right.

So you understand my point?
Where's our disagreement here?

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

Correlation does not equal causation. From the information presented, it would make as much sense to say that empathetic people are less intelligent--or more accurately--activate different circuits in their brain for certain activities; or people who have good social awareness and behavior ("prosocial"...and they don't actually define either term in this...) are are more likely to use certain brain circuits in certain situations than people who are less able in empathy and/or prosocial...

Phrasing matters, and to couch it as intelligence rather than a specific kind of problem-solving ability is to say something about the way the author of the news article at least views this subject. Have to go find the study to see what the authors actually say.

 

[lovesong]

So you understand my point?
Where's our disagreement here?

You said spiritual intelligence isn't a thing. It may not contribute to academic intelligence but it is a form of intelligence, that's all I was getting at. (sorry, misquoted you the first time)

 

[Skwim]

Every scientist throughout history who has held religious beliefs.

Every scientists throughout history who has held religious beliefs says that having religious faith doesn't lead to poorer analytical skills? Aside from an almost certainty that you know nothing about what scientists with religious beliefs thought about the correlation between faith and analytical skills, it has no bearing on the studies.

Every spiritual person who holds above average grades, or graduates at the top of their class.

Another irrelevant claim you've concocted.


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[Deathbydefault]

You said spiritual intelligence isn't a thing. It may not contribute to academic intelligence but it is a form of intelligence, that's all I was getting at. (sorry, misquoted you the first time)

Ah, I should have clarified using 'objective'.
Good that we came to an understanding.

 

[lovesong]

Every scientists throughout history who has held religious beliefs says that having religious faith doesn't lead to poorer analytical skills? Aside from an almost certainty that you know nothing about what scientists with religious beliefs thought about the correlation between faith and analytical skills, it has no bearing on the studies.


Another irrelevant claim you've concocted.


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I'm saying that the intelligence of these religious people disproves these "studies."