Perceptions of Islam

[mehrosh]

Yes, I agree.

Now, just for clarifacation, i'm not against Islam, in fact one of my best friends at this site is a Muslim.

I'm only putting in my opinion as to what I said earlier, this is not the fault of the source material or Muslims in general, just the few who spoil it for others.

As Gandi also said " You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty"

I understand that you are not against Islam, and I respect your opinion, what I want is that if you are having a misconception about Islam, I am here to clear it, you are most welcome. Your opinion reflected that somewhere you think that muslims should change, I strongly agree with you, Muslims should change with time. I will be thankful if we discuss it. Thanks and Regards.

 

[Judgement Day]

I must say I commend such a bold approach. Frubals for that.

Now, with one issue at a time, I could discuss logical objections, but before every logical objection to Islam I have there is one that isn't really logical (not to say that it's illogical, against logic): I can't see beauty and life in it.

Every time I've tried to read the Koran, I've stopped, because I don't feel life in it. It is a group of sayings and laws, but people move in stories, with animals and plants. Sayings do not have deeds and actions. They are simply statements. Likewise, when I look at Muslim art, it lacks the beauty of the creation without the animals or people to populate and tell a story. Art must be more than abstraction; it must also have life.

Rather than digress, I see rigidity and death in it. I have never seen life, beauty, and vibrancy no matter how many times I've looked for it. Without these, the whole ediface seems muted and silent. This may sound odd, and it is a sort of prerational bias, but it's a rather big one (I've turned away from a great many things for lacking these flourishes).

Maybe its better if you can cite which part of Quran you read? It would be much appreciated.

 

[No*s]

Maybe its better if you can cite which part of Quran you read? It would be much appreciated.

Unfortunately, I don't have a copy on me. I haven't bought it (I've checked it out of the library rather than buy it). It, thus, is rather difficult for me to quote (and I haven't looked at it in about two years; I gave up on it).

 

[YmirGF]

Many people harbour misconceptions about Islam and consider several teachings of Islam to be unfair or improper. This is due to insufficient and incorrect knowledge of Islam. If one critically analyzes the teachings of Islam with an open mind, one cannot escape the fact that Islam is full of benefits both at the individual and collective levels.

Well, it is nice to see you have a sense of humor, for surely this line of thinking is a joke. One can only wonder how much we are expected to choke down before it all makes sense. What people fail to grasp is that it does not matter what they think about Islam itself. The real point is if one believes Muhammed.

If one agrees that Muhammed was telling the truth and acted as a Final Messenger from God/Allah then Islam must be taken at face value. Submit and swallow. If, however, one does not believe that Muhammed was in fact a messenger from God, let alone the Final Messenger, then Islam collapses in on itself like a delusional house of cards.

With all due respect, I view Muhammed as a brilliant con artist, who was eventually seduced by his own confidence game. The con was conned by the con.

 

[mehrosh]

I must say I commend such a bold approach. Frubals for that.

Heartly Thanks...>

Now, with one issue at a time, I could discuss logical objections, but before every logical objection to Islam I have there is one that isn't really logical (not to say that it's illogical, against logic): I can't see beauty and life in it.

Every time I've tried to read the Koran, I've stopped, because I don't feel life in it. It is a group of sayings and laws, but people move in stories, with animals and plants. Sayings do not have deeds and actions. They are simply statements. Likewise, when I look at Muslim art, it lacks the beauty of the creation without the animals or people to populate and tell a story. Art must be more than abstraction; it must also have life.

Rather than digress, I see rigidity and death in it. I have never seen life, beauty, and vibrancy no matter how many times I've looked for it. Without these, the whole ediface seems muted and silent. This may sound odd, and it is a sort of prerational bias, but it's a rather big one (I've turned away from a great many things for lacking these flourishes).

You are welcome to discuss as many logical or illogical objections lolzz..as you like, I am here, Inshallah (God willingly) I will try to do my best, I am pleased to know that you have read the Qura'an and it is obvious to give have such views when you don't know much about it, I had the same I must agree. If you look for art in the Qura'an, you will not find it, I agree, Quran is the word of God Almighty, it is the most difficult book on earth that can be translated, it is pure Arabic literature arranged in beautiful poetry, so as far as you are reading it in English, you will only find statments. No I certainly don't mean that is a book of poem, rather fine piece of Arabic literature

It is a Miracle, and unchanged, i.e it is in it's original form...IT IS A BOOK OF SIGNS, It encourages its readers to ponder over it "Only the people who have knowledge fear God", It also encourages its readers to put it to test.

The Qur’an is unlike any other religious scriptures which has a typical human type of narration like a storybook. How does the storybook begin? It begins with once upon a time, foxes and grapes, wolf and the lamb.The Qur’an does not have such human narration in the beginning was so and so and if you read the other religious scriptures, they have a typical sequence of the human narration’s. It talks about a particular person, talks about his family, about the children and the sequence runs in order - Chapter 1, Chapter 2, it is in order. Qur’an too speaks about people and their family lives but it speaks not in a particular sequence like the human story book. The Qur’an has its own unique style. It is a unique book. Qur’an says that the revelation goes in parallel with reason.

Some people says that holy scriptures, they are beyond reasoning if they are beyond reasoning, then how can we decipher, which of the Holy Scriptures are true and which are false. The Qur’an infact encourages reasoning, it encourages a discussion. The Qur’an says in Surah Nahl, Ch. No. 16, Verse No. 125…Arabic… that is, ‘Invite all to the way of thy lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching and argue with them and reason with them in the ways that are best and most gracious’. Qur’an encourages discussion, encourages reasoning. There is a theory known as exhausting the alternatives. The Qur’an says that this book, this book the Qur’an it is a revelation from God Almighty. If it is not, then what is it? You give the other alternative. . This is the Qur’an it is a book. It is paper and ink where is it confirmed it requires an explanation. The Qur’an says it is from Allah. It is from God Almighty. If it is not where did it come from?

Albert Einstein in the beginning of the century, when he gave a new theory that I feel the universe works like that along with the theory he gave 3 falsification test saying that if you think my theory is wrong do these three things and my theory will be proved wrong. The scientists, they examined it for 6 years and then said yes the theory of Albert Einstein is correct. That does not mean that he is great person. It means he deserves a listening. Qur’an has several such falsification tests. Some of them were only meant for the past. Some of them are applicable for all times.

 

[drekmed]

what i think is wrong with Islam, and pretty much any other abrahamic religion, is that it takes words written down by a man, who nobody alive today ever met, and says that they were inspired by Allah/God, simply because the book they are reading claims the writer is writing Allah's/God's divine word.

this god demands worship and servitude in order for the people to receive benifit in an afterlife, and if this god doesn't receive the amount of worship he desires; he will punish the people in either this life or the next.

like christianity, i feel islam is a good way to control the masses. it sets down strict rules and offers set punishments should those rules be broken. yes, there are good teachings in both religions, but in my opinion the bad out-weighs the good. there are too many dire things that could be wrought on someone if they stray from what is deemed, by those in charge, to be the moral road. this moral road changes through time. dont believe me? look back through history on what is and isn't deemed acceptable behavior in societies.

do i believe that islam is an evil religion? no i dont. i just believe that islam, like christianity, is not, and never will be right for everybody. it should not be forced on anybody, but, that is not the religion itself, that is the government behind the religion and a whole different discussion.

Drekmed

 

[robtex]

MOD POST:

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[Judgement Day]

Unfortunately, I don't have a copy on me. I haven't bought it (I've checked it out of the library rather than buy it). It, thus, is rather difficult for me to quote (and I haven't looked at it in about two years; I gave up on it).

I understand that and I am pleased to hear that you have tried to read Quran. The Glorious Quran is the Book of Allah, the Wise and Worthy of all Praise, Who has promised to safeguard it from any violations in its purity. It becomes incumbent upon each and every person who seeks the dignity of this world and the bliss of the Hereafter to regulate his life according to it, to implement its commandments and to pay homage to the magnificence of the One Who revealed it. This can be an easy task for those favoured with guidance from Allah, especially those blessed by an understanding of Arabic, the language of the divine communication. But for those not acquainted with Arabic, their ignorance is a barrier between them and this source of guidance and illumination. A translation of the message of Allah is thus a task not to be take lightly or performed superficially.

Before the reader begins to study the Quran, he must realise that unlike all other writings, this is a unique book with a supreme author, an eternal message and a universal relevance. Its contents are not confined to a particular theme or style, but contain the foundations for an entire system of life, covering a whole spectrum of issues, which range from specific articles of faith and commandments to general moral teachings, rights, and obligations, crime and punishment, personal and public law, and a host of other private and social concerns. These issues are discussed in a variety of ways, such as direct stipulations, reminders of Allah's favours on His creation, admonitions and rebukes. Stories of past communities are narrated, followed by the lessons to be learned from their actions and subsequent fates.

 

[mehrosh]

Unfortunately, I don't have a copy on me. I haven't bought it (I've checked it out of the library rather than buy it). It, thus, is rather difficult for me to quote (and I haven't looked at it in about two years; I gave up on it).

Brother here is a free copy of the Quran, you are welcome to pose any number of doubts you have about it....http://www.harunyahya.com/Quran_translation/Quran_translation_index.php thanks and regards

 

[mehrosh]

With all due respect, I view Muhammed as a brilliant con artist, who was eventually seduced by his own confidence game. The con was conned by the con.

Thankyou Brother for you reply, I see that you think accepting Muhammed as the Last Prophet is not acceptable. Right? We can discuss, tell me why can't you accept Muhammed as the Last Prophet, confirming the previous scriptures. He was not send to a particular people, but to whole of mankind, Jesus was send to the Children of Israel Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

 

[c0da]

Islam is derived from the word "SALAM" which means PEACE, and the unique thing about Islam is that, it not only preaches Peace, but also displays how to implement Peace

I thought Islam meant "submit"?

Can I ask, how does the Koran display how to implement peace?

Do other religions not tell us how to do this? eg. The first Buddhist precept is to abstain from harming living things or the "Thou Shalt Not Kill" commandment in the bible...

 

[mehrosh]

what i think is wrong with Islam, and pretty much any other abrahamic religion, is that it takes words written down by a man, who nobody alive today ever met, and says that they were inspired by Allah/God, simply because the book they are reading claims the writer is writing Allah's/God's divine word.

We clear and good post brother, thanks for coming in, I am with you and agree that abrahamic and many other religions want us to accept words written down by man, and I would like to congradulate you on being an athiest, you may wonder why I am doing that. Because you are using your intellect. You are using your reasoning power. Most of the people in the world who believe in a God they are doing blind belief. He is a Christian because his father is a Christian, he is a Hindu because his father is a Hindu. Some Muslims are Muslims because their father is a Muslim. They are doing blind belief. This atheist even though he may belong to a religious background, to a religious family he thinks that how is it possible that the people around me they are worshipping a God which has got human qualities, qualities same as me. And you don't want to accept a book as to be from God because for that you need a reasoning...We can discuss this if you want me to that is Quran from God? And let me tell you Quran is unchange and that makes it unique.

this god demands worship and servitude in order for the people to receive benifit in an afterlife, and if this god doesn't receive the amount of worship he desires; he will punish the people in either this life or the next.

I am sorry brother I disagree with you this time, this God wants us to worship and obey him so that we receive benefit in this life, there is no fundamental of Islam that is against humanity, rather ISLAM IS THE ONLY WAY ONE CAN ACHEIVE PEACE AND PUT THE WORLD TO PEACE, let me give you an example, there are many robbers in our society,,,have you met one, No? even I have not...LOlzz, well getting back to the topic, Islam says, "cut the hands of the theif or robberer" now anyone will say what a ruthless religion, what will be of that man if his hands are cut, now, Islam has a rule of charity, every Muslim has to give charity equal to 2.5% of his wealth, according to WHO, is 4 Richest people of this world give 4% of their wealth as charity, poverty will be irradicated from this world. Now tell me, if we implement this charity law, with the hand cutting law, who will rob then? will the theft rate increase or decline?

like christianity, i feel islam is a good way to control the masses. it sets down strict rules and offers set punishments should those rules be broken. yes, there are good teachings in both religions, but in my opinion the bad out-weighs the good. there are too many dire things that could be wrought on someone if they stray from what is deemed, by those in charge, to be the moral road. this moral road changes through time. dont believe me? look back through history on what is and isn't deemed acceptable behavior in societies.

There is no religion like Islam, it not only preaches PEACE, BUT DISPLAYS HOW TO IMPLEMENT IT, I agree every religion teaches good things, Christianity says don't rob, Islam says don't rob, Hinduism says don't rob, but how to stop this evil, only Islam displays...

do i believe that islam is an evil religion? no i dont. i just believe that islam, like christianity, is not, and never will be right for everybody. it should not be forced on anybody, but, that is not the religion itself, that is the government behind the religion and a whole different discussion.

Drekmed

If you have good knowledge about Islam, you will say it is the right religion to implement Peace and right from everyone...The Quran says that "WE HAVE NOT SEND YOU BUT AS A MERCY FOR MANKIND", yes forcing religion is strictly prohibited in Islam, God says "THERE IS NO COMPULSION IN RELIGION"...lastly i want to say that please don't judge Islam by its followers, no car can be judged by its driver..

 

[mehrosh]

I thought Islam meant "submit"?

Can I ask, how does the Koran display how to implement peace?

Do other religions not tell us how to do this? eg. The first Buddhist precept is to abstain from harming living things or the "Thou Shalt Not Kill" commandment in the bible...

Dear Brother, you are most welcome and thankyou for coming in. No Islam come from the word "salam" which means Peace, and it also means submitting ones will to Almighty God; Yes, all the religions in this world teach us to be good, and be at peace with each other, I have not come across a single religion which tells you to be bad and spoil peace. Islam is the fastest spreading religion, according to Almanac, 256% people embrass Islam every year, Now if we have to answer the quesiton that "Why is Islam the fastest spreading religion in the world?" the reply in one sentence will be, "Islam is the fastest spreading religion in the world because it has the solution for all the problems of mankind, political, social, economic, family etc. etc. the only way to attain Peace throughout the world.If I am to explain in detail, then it will be diffcult for you to read...but lets start from the MAJOR problem the world faces today.

1.Exploitation of women

The exploitation of women is not new to the world, we can see this problem in the Babylonian, Eygption, Romanian periods and even today. According to the US Department of Justice,1996 on average 2713 rapes take place everyday, this is the condition of the country which sends its army to liberate the women of other countries. This is not the actual number, many women don't ever report the rape out of shame. Islam has a code of conduct, if it is implemented we can get practical results. The Quran commands the believing men to lower their gaze and gaurd their modesty, thus Islam strikes the root cause of rape. The believing women are commanded to lower their gaze and gaurd their modesty as well as not to display their beauty, the Quran further reasons that they may be comforted and not grieve, and may all be pleased with what thou givest them. Allah knoweth what is in your hearts (O men) and Allah is Forgiving, Clement.Chapter Ahzab Verse.51 Women wearing modest dress will not be molested in the name of Fashion shows, advertisments, night parties, rain dances, etc. etc. several new and beautiful was invented to molest the women.Will these men like their daughters and sisters molested in the same way, no, no man will ever like it.The Quran says:And come not near unto adultery. Lo! it is an abomination and an evil way.Chapter: Isra Verse:32Don't go near any action which leads to adultery Quran aslo says:.....that ye draw not nigh to lewd things whether open or concealed. Don't go close to immorality niether openly nor secretly.If we implement this as a law for man and women will not this crime minimize, so many seminars are held all over the world to protect women, but only a few verses of the Quran give us the ultimate and effective solution.The next problem the humanity faces today is "Alcohol" (INTERESTED, WE CAN DISCUSS, ALL THE PROBLEMS HUMANITY FACES TODAY)

 

[mehrosh]

ISLAM TELLS US "THAT ALL MANKIND ARE THE SONS AND DAUGHTERS OF ADAM, AND ADAM WAS CREATED FROM DUST".....THE QURAN CALLS US TOWARDS UNIVERSAL BROTHERHOOD "Come to common terms between us and you: that we shall worship none but God, and that we shall ascribe no partners unto Him, and that none of us shall take others for lords beside God. " IT TELLS US TO COME TO COMMON TERMS FIRST, AND THEN LOOK AT THE DIFFERENCES, AND SOLVE THEM, IF WE ALL GO BACK TO OUR SCRIPTURES, CHRISTIANITY TEACHES THAT WORSHIP NONE BUT ONE GOD, JUDAISM TEACHES THAT WORSHIP NONE BUT ONE GOD, HINDUISM TEACHES WORSHIP NONE BUT ONE GOD. IF WE COME TO COMMON TERMS WE CAN ACHIEVE ULTIMATE PEACE

 

[DakotaGypsy]

The issue of stoning.

I take great issue with stoning someone to death.

In some lands it is acceptable to stone scholars to death for doubting the veracity of the Koran.

Or the stoning to death of adulteresses (but, not the sacred adulterers because males are always deemed as next to God in patriarchal religions) as once practiced in Judaism and possibly Christianity, and is probably still practiced within Islam.

The stoning of heretics. Doesn't that still occur?

The medieval Christian church embraced stoning heretics before they were cremated alive.

I must remind someone that it only recently that an Islamic girl was saved from stoning to death in Pakistan BECAUSE SHE WAS A VICTIM OF RAPE!

That is unacceptable to me. I condemn it. It is horribly irrational to stone the victim of a crime. If there is truly such a thing as God, it must be unGodly.

 

[DakotaGypsy]

I must also recommend a book, The End of Faith: Religion, Terror, and the Future of Reason by Sam Harris, 2004.

 

[mehrosh]

The issue of stoning.

I take great issue with stoning someone to death.

In some lands it is acceptable to stone scholars to death for doubting the veracity of the Koran.

Or the stoning to death of adulteresses (but, not the sacred adulterers because males are always deemed as next to God in patriarchal religions) as once practiced in Judaism and possibly Christianity, and is probably still practiced within Islam.

The stoning of heretics. Doesn't that still occur?

The medieval Christian church embraced stoning heretics before they were cremated alive.

I must remind someone that it only recently that an Islamic girl was saved from stoning to death in Pakistan BECAUSE SHE WAS A VICTIM OF RAPE!

That is unacceptable to me. I condemn it. It is horribly irrational to stone the victim of a crime. If there is truly such a thing as God, it must be unGodly.

Welcome and thanks for putting up your question, you have raised a very good topic, Why does, Islam tell us to stone the adultress. Let me start by clearing your misconception, Both male and female, if they are guilty of being involved in sexual intercourses out of marriage, they are stonned to death, according to shariah law, Muhammed saas, ordered the stoning of men as well as women. You wrote that in Pakistan a girl was put to stoning because she was raped, was a ruthless act is this, people are very ignorant back there, according to the Shariah Law, the person who raped was to be put to death, and they are putting this innocent girl to the law.

I agree that there are many muslims who practice evil, there are many muslims who drink non muslims under the table. But my request is that don't judge Islam by its followers, If I give a Mercedes Benz to a person who doesn't knows how to drive and he bangs the car on the walk, whom will I blame, the car, or the driver? the driver ofcourse.

Regarding why is this penalty of death, let me inform you that, this punishment can only be implemented is there are four eye witness, who actually saw the man copulating with the woman with their own eyes. Now I will ask you, how is this possible, everyone knows that such acts take place in private rooms, they are not broadcasted on satelight channels, Right?

Once `Umar ibn al-Khattab, Commander of the Faithful then, asked `Ali ibn Abi Talib (may Allah be pleased with both of them) saying: “Oh Abu al-Hasan! ‘What if I saw a couple committing adultery and heard them myself; should I carry out the legal penalty (on them)?’ `Ali said: ‘You would need a proof – i.e. bringing four just witnesses – or you would be lashed for slander!’”

This clearly shows that the issue is not just seeking what may prove the crime; rather, a great caution is displayed when it comes to carrying out a fixed penalty. Islam further gives its full weight behind all what may prove the innocence of the accused, as the Prophet (peace and blessing be upon him) has done with the man who came to him confessing adultery. The Prophet (peace and blessing be upon him) said to the man “Perhaps you just touched her; maybe you kissed her; maybe you, etc.” in an attempt to give him the chance to recall his confession. Thus, the Prophet (peace and blessing be upon him) says, “Ward off legal penalties with suspicions.” The second reason can be, if the man or the woman confesses that he/she has commited sexual act out of marriage (non married don't come under this punishment) even if they disagree after confessing the punshiment will imediately be put down, or if they show signs of escaping the punshiment, the punshiment will be withdrawn...Any more misconception, feel free to post, I am here at your service...

THANKYOU AND REGARDS

 

[mehrosh]

I must also recommend a book, The End of Faith: Religion, Terror, and the Future of Reason by Sam Harris, 2004.

The Media is on its top to Maline Islam, Professor Edward of Lebenon University said "In a span of 150 years more than 60,000 books were written speaking against Islam" (Times magazine, 16 April 1999), that is 1 book every day. How poisoning it is? Yet the effect is reverse. Rather post whatever you have against Islam here...

 

[c0da]

Islam says, "cut the hands of the theif or robberer"

Two wrongs do NOT make a right.

 

[Ody]

I would like to commend you guys for fighting these stereotypes, they get more annoying as time gos bye.