Perceptions of Islam

[YmirGF]

Thankyou Brother for you reply, I see that you think accepting Muhammed as the Last Prophet is not acceptable. Right? We can discuss, tell me why can't you accept Muhammed as the Last Prophet, confirming the previous scriptures. He was not send to a particular people, but to whole of mankind, Jesus was send to the Children of Israel Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

First things first, I am not your brother, please do not refer to me as such. I find it slightly disrespectful.

My reasons for rejecting Muhammed as a prophet of ANY kind, lay in the original revelations by the ArchAngel Gabriel given to Muhammed in the cave. Allegedly, Gabriel commanded Muhammed to perform an action he was incapable of, and not in an altogether friendly manner. I remain deeply suspicious of the whole event, as it sounds far more like a psychotic episode, rather than true divine revelation.

Note: Using Qur'anic passages to support what you are saying is known as circular reasoning. Circular reasoning proves almost nothing, beyond the understanding of the person quoting said so-called scriptures.

 

[Super Universe]

A question I have is about women. I've read the Koran and I don't believe it says that a women should cover and veil herself when outside. It seems to me that this tradition is culturally based rather than a religious, Islamic rule.

I have heard others explain that women are so prized in Arab culture that the covering is meant to protect them. I've also heard that that men should not lust after women and so the women are required to cover up. I'm not sure if either of these have any real basis in Islam.

I can tell you that I was in a moderate arab country and I went by myself to a food court in a nearby mall. I ordered my food then sat down at the only table available to wait. Not far from me was a Saudi man (red/white head scarf) and his wife, she was completely covered and veiled. The woman had to let down one side of her veil so she could eat and the Saudi man actually switched places with his wife so that I could not see that part of her face.

 

[No*s]

Mehrosh, I'll get back to you. I won't be on long tonight or tomorrow, so it'll have to wait (if you happen to have a magic gem to stop time, it would be helpful ). I simply don't have time for the detailed explanation tonight.

 

[Nehustan]

Little knowledge of science makes an atheist,
indepth study of science makes a believer in God

Without wanting to sound too rude, where did you dig this nugget of nonsense from?

Brother why are you running behind my signature, we can discuss it in a thread related to this topic, not here, here you are welcome to criticize Islam....If you are interest than let me inform you that this is the statment of Francis Bacon, the famous philosopher, I have modified it because it was not fitting the numbers of words allowed int he signature...the correct one is a little knowledge of science makes man an atheist, but an in-depth study of science makes him a believer in GodThankyou

I can't really debate on this thread, because I haven't got any real issues with Islam any more than I have with any religion, apart the fact that I disagree with most of what they all say about the origins of life.

Perhaps this is exactly where you should debate with Muslims then. I have studied Genetics and Evolution, Human Evolution, Archaeology, Paleoanthropology (I'll only list the relevant subjects) at Undergraduate level (BSc Anthropology), and have no problem with being Muslim and seeing the theories as presented by my discipline. I suggest that perhaps the Muslims you know are not scientists? I'd put it to you that for many believers their knowledge of science is the problem, which they rectify by not increasing their knowledge base, i.e. sticking to their books with a solely belief based view, rather than increasing their knowledge and thus their faith.

 

[mehrosh]

Two wrongs do NOT make a right.

I agree with you, you took out these words from the context, kindly read the whole thing, and only then tell me how is this wrong?

 

[mehrosh]

I would like to commend you guys for fighting these stereotypes, they get more annoying as time gos bye.

Kindly explain

 

[mehrosh]

First things first, I am not your brother, please do not refer to me as such. I find it slightly disrespectful.

Sir,As you wish, well the reason why I was calling you brother is because we all are children of Adam and thus we all are brothers and sisters.

Note: Using Qur'anic passages to support what you are saying is known as circular reasoning. Circular reasoning proves almost nothing, beyond the understanding of the person quoting said so-called scriptures.

Your right, there is no use to quote the verses of the Quran, unless the other one believes in it, Right!

My reasons for rejecting Muhammed as a prophet of ANY kind, lay in the original revelations by the ArchAngel Gabriel given to Muhammed in the cave. Allegedly, Gabriel commanded Muhammed to perform an action he was incapable of, and not in an altogether friendly manner. I remain deeply suspicious of the whole event, as it sounds far more like a psychotic episode, rather than true divine revelation.

Coming to the point that why Gabriel commanded him to do what he was not able to is because, The foundation of Islam is on the PRINCIPLE OF AQUIRING KNOWLEDGE, Islam whats to liberate man and woman by educating them because a liberated mind cannot be fooled. Muhammed said Aquiring knowledge is obligatory on every Muslim (man and woman); Now the fact that he was illiterate, and Gabriel comes and command's him to Read is to make a point very clear, and i.e, people say that Muhammed copied from the Torat or the Bible, and if he was a literate many would have accepted this lie. Now coming to your core question, How can one accept Muhammed as a Prophet, for that we need to get into the issue, I hope Sir, you have the stamina to read the text and reply. I continue here The biggest Misconception Many people have a misconception that Prophet Muhammad (May peace be upon him) was the founder of the religion of Islam. In fact, Islam is in existence since man first set foot on the earth. God Almighty has sent several revelations and messengers to this earth. All the previous Prophets sent by God were meant only for their people and their nation and the complete message was meant for a particular time period. That is the reason that the miracle they performed like the parting of the sea, like raising the dead to life convinced the people of that time but cannot be examined and verified by us today. Prophet Muhammad (May peace be upon him) was the last and final messenger of God Almighty sent to the whole of humanity and his message is meant till eternity. Was he truthful, did he truely recieve revelations? We Muslims only boast of the ultimate miracle given to him by God that is the Holy Qur’an. Al-Qur’an is the miracle of all times. It proved itself to be a miracle 1400 years ago. It can be reconfirmed today and forever. In short, it is the miracle of miracles. Probably the only point common amongst the people, whether they be Muslims or non Muslims is that the Qur’an was recited the first time by the man born in the city of Makkah in Arabia in the 6th Century by the name Muhammad (May peace be upon him) regarding the question, was he truly a Prophet or not?, there can be basically 3 different assumptions. 1.The first is that Prophet Muhammad (May Peace be upon him) himself consciously, sub-consciously or unconsciously authored the Holy Qur’an,. 2.The second assumption that can be is that Prophet Muhammad (May peace be upon him) he obtained it from other human sources or from other religious scripture. 3.And the 3rd is that the Holy Qur’an does not have human author but it is verbatim the word or the revelation of God Almighty. Let us examine the one you feel is right from the three basic assumptions. Thanks Regards Mehrosh

 

[mehrosh]

A question I have is about women. I've read the Koran and I don't believe it says that a women should cover and veil herself when outside. It seems to me that this tradition is culturally based rather than a religious, Islamic rule.

I have heard others explain that women are so prized in Arab culture that the covering is meant to protect them. I've also heard that that men should not lust after women and so the women are required to cover up. I'm not sure if either of these have any real basis in Islam.

I can tell you that I was in a moderate arab country and I went by myself to a food court in a nearby mall. I ordered my food then sat down at the only table available to wait. Not far from me was a Saudi man (red/white head scarf) and his wife, she was completely covered and veiled. The woman had to let down one side of her veil so she could eat and the Saudi man actually switched places with his wife so that I could not see that part of her face.

Well, nice to know that you have been to an arab country, I might seem very amazing to the West that why is this viel obligatory on women. Before getting into detail, let me make it clear that the Quran commands the Hijab (viel) of the man first and then the women. We can discuss this...but for that I need you to click on the link below because if I post here you will find it diffcult to read the whole text. http://groups.msn.com/Straightpath/hijabforwomen.msnw you are welcome to post any more doubts about Islam, Thanks and Regards

 

[mehrosh]

Mehrosh, I'll get back to you. I won't be on long tonight or tomorrow, so it'll have to wait (if you happen to have a magic gem to stop time, it would be helpful ). I simply don't have time for the detailed explanation tonight.

Take your time, you are welcome anytime, Have a good time (sort of the poetry right...lolzz)

 

[frg001]

The Quran commands the believing men to lower their gaze and gaurd their modesty, thus Islam strikes the root cause of rape. The believing women are commanded to lower their gaze and gaurd their modesty as well as not to display their beauty

Ok I'm gonna go back on what I said... This is a good example of something that is VERY wrong with Islam.

Beauty in any form, wether that be a flower,a stream,a mountain covered in snow, or a human male or female, is something to be rejoiced. NOT hidden away. Quite franky I detest seeing these poor muslim women dressed head to toe in black, very often on a hot day. We should all be free of these mental shackles and rejoice in our lives.

 

[mehrosh]

I'd put it to you that for many believers their knowledge of science is the problem,

I don't say that I am a scientist, but know about science, and All the Praises and thanks are to God Alone, the more I study, the more I find Him. A believer in GOD will have no problem in accepting science, only if he/she has the knowledge of the Quran (we can discuss) we can easily name ISLAM AND SCIENCE AS TWIN SISTERS....

which they rectify by not increasing their knowledge base, i.e. sticking to their books with a solely belief based view, rather than increasing their knowledge and thus their faith.

I agree with you,, the problem is that, we have one eye opened wide, Science and technology, and the other closed hard, Faith in the Creator. The one who has both open is the one who is succesful, as the Quran says "The people who fear God Most, are the People who have knowledge". The Quran keeps on repeating statments like "so that you may ponder" "so that you may understand" "in this are signs for the people of understanding" and several others, the Quran calls its reader to ponder over it, dig into it and discuss it. The Qur’an says in Surah Nahl, Ch. No. 16, Verse No. 125…Arabic… that is, ‘Invite all to the way of thy lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching and argue with them and reason with them in the ways that are best and most gracious’. Qur’an encourages discussion, encourages reasoning. No wonder the Arabic words ‘Qalu’ which means they say is mentioned 332 times and the Arabic word ‘Qul’ which means say is also mentioned 332 times. This proves that the Qur’an encourages discussion

 

[mehrosh]

Ok I'm gonna go back on what I said... This is a good example of something that is VERY wrong with Islam.

Beauty in any form, wether that be a flower,a stream,a mountain covered in snow, or a human male or female, is something to be rejoiced. NOT hidden away. Quite franky I detest seeing these poor muslim women dressed head to toe in black, very often on a hot day. We should all be free of these mental shackles and rejoice in our lives.

Quit rightly said, but in a wrong way. Muhammed said "God is beautiful and loves beauty" A woman is allowed to display her beauty to her husband ONLY, she need not wear a hijab in front of her father, brother, grandfather, father in law, and so on (the near ones). Islam teaches Modesty, I know that in the west out there women are being exploited in the name of ART AND CULTURE, they are the butterflies of the evil minds working behind. According to a FBI report, in the year 1990, every day on an average 1756 cases of rape were committed in U.S.A alone. Later another report said that on an average everyday 1900 cases of rapes are committed in USA. We respect our women, I don't think any man will like his sister, daughter, mother or wife to be molestated in the name of freedom.

 

[frg001]

Quit rightly said, but in a wrong way. Muhammed said "God is beautiful and loves beauty" A woman is allowed to display her beauty to her husband ONLY, she need not wear a hijab in front of her father, brother, grandfather, father in law, and so on (the near ones). Islam teaches Modesty, I know that in the west out there women are being exploited in the name of ART AND CULTURE, they are the butterflies of the evil minds working behind. According to a FBI report, in the year 1990, every day on an average 1756 cases of rape were committed in U.S.A alone. Later another report said that on an average everyday 1900 cases of rapes are committed in USA. We respect our women, I don't think any man will like his sister, daughter, mother or wife to be molestated in the name of freedom.

Just google 'rape in pakistan' - And read the countless articles.
The way to counter these things is not by subjugation, but by education. Islam does the former.

 

[mehrosh]

Just google 'rape in pakistan' - And read the countless articles.
The way to counter these things is not by subjugation, but by education. Islam does the former.

I agree with you again, but let me start by stating the truth, and that is, the media does the greater part in highligting the Muslim countries, it is only one of the ways of the media to Maline Islam. But the more they try to degrade it, the faster it spreads. Coming to your point, did I say that there are no rapes in Islamic countries, did I? tell me? Yes, I know I didn't, Pakistan is one of the worst in the list, tell you what, have you visited Pakistan? No right? I have, just look at there woman, no one can say they are muslims, they leave behind the western woman. But then that is there problem. You will agree with me that Shariah Law is not implemented in pakistan, there is no dress code, there is no punishment, If a girl is raped, she is put to the punishment, when the rapist has to be punished. I doubt, they even know what is the Islamic Law. Now lets see, that is there any country which has implemented the Islamic Law, yes there is, and that is only Saudia Arabia, now type in Google and search this criteria "which country has the lowest rate of rape", the answer comes out as Saudia. Doubt it, go ahead.

 

[frg001]

I agree with you again, but let me start by stating the truth, and that is, the media does the greater part in highligting the Muslim countries, it is only one of the ways of the media to Maline Islam. But the more they try to degrade it, the faster it spreads. Coming to your point, did I say that there are no rapes in Islamic countries, did I? tell me? Yes, I know I didn't, Pakistan is one of the worst in the list, tell you what, have you visited Pakistan? No right? I have, just look at there woman, no one can say they are muslims, they leave behind the western woman. But then that is there problem. You will agree with me that Shariah Law is not implemented in pakistan, there is no dress code, there is no punishment, If a girl is raped, she is put to the punishment, when the rapist has to be punished. I doubt, they even know what is the Islamic Law. Now lets see, that is there any country which has implemented the Islamic Law, yes there is, and that is only Saudia Arabia, now type in Google and search this criteria "which country has the lowest rate of rape", the answer comes out as Saudia. Doubt it, go ahead.

Yes - They have very low crime, because they aslo have horrendously draconian laws. I for one do NOT want to live in a country that rules by fear. Horrid.

 

[mehrosh]

As far as education in Islam is concerned, we can discuss, If you feel like....Thanks again...

 

[mehrosh]

Yes - They have very low crime, because they aslo have horrendously draconian laws. I for one do NOT want to live in a country that rules by fear. Horrid.

Draconian Laws, nice word...lolzzz, you have a good sense of humour, but Sir, it is only when laws are implemented that you can control this crime. Let me highlight the Islamic law on this concern.

Capital punishment for the rapists

Under the Islamic shariah, a man convicted of having raped a woman, is given​

capital punishment. Many are astonished at this ‘harsh’ sentence. Some even​

say that Islam is a ruthless, barbaric religion! I have asked a simple question to​

hundreds of non-Muslim men. Suppose, God forbid, someone rapes your wife,​

your mother or your sister. You are made the judge and the rapist is brought in​

front of you. What punishment would you give him? All of them said they would​

put him to death. Some went to the extent of saying they would torture him to​

death. To them I ask, if someone rapes your wife or your mother you want to put​

him to death. But if the same crime is committed on somebody else’s wife or​

daughter you say capital punishment is barbaric. Why should there be double​

standards?​

 

[mehrosh]

Don't just leave after reciving my answers Sir,frg001, like many do, ones they have nothing to say. I would like to rather ask you, your views, after clearing your doubts..Thanks and regards

 

[frg001]

Don't just leave after reciving my answers Sir,frg001, like many do, ones they have nothing to say. I would like to rather ask you, your views, after clearing your doubts..Thanks and regards

I wasn't leaving - I have a family and other things to do. But here is my final say on the matter until this evening or maybe tomorrow (I am getting ready to go out and drink some beer with my friends, watch some football in the pub, and have a friendly chat, then come home and have a nice meal with my girlfriend and son - no we are not married, and happy that way)

1. Capital punishment - Is wrong - It is not a states right to kill people.(If I caught someone trying to hurt my son, I might very well kill them, but that is totally different)

2.Saudi Arabia - How you can quote a country with such a terrible human rights record, as a good example of a way of life is beyond me.

3. Again as I said earlier - I don't want to have a go at your faith, or other faiths. I think they're all wrong...

 

[mehrosh]

That's nice, hope you have a good time....now you are showing double standards regarding capital punishment, if someone is troubling your son, you say you will kill him, but if someone rapes a girl, who is someone else's daughter, everyone knows the evil consequences of rape, and he is killed you say it is wrong ?????? i am amazed...Saudia has a terrible record of human rights, I agree, but here we were talking about viel of man and woman. We can discuss when you have time, what are those human rights and what does Islam say about it, it is when your free. So till that time, cheers and good bye.