Perceptions of Islam

[thinker_of_elves]

one thing that is worth noting is that Islam as a religion, stands fast, in that they do not alter their text in translations.

And that is excatly why it is so out of date for modern society.

 

[TashaN]

Just because 'everyone' was practising paedophilia, does not make it right. A great number of things that went on in the past, we now know to be wrong, such as slavery and discrimination.

Hardly perfect. We know now, that what he did at the time was wrong. Even if we accept that he knew no better and that in those times paedophilia was accepted, as was slavery and bigotry, he participated. Not exactly perfect - Surely a 'perfect' person would have shunned these norms, and realised how wrong it was?

You will find all your answers about this issue here in this link below:

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27316&page=2

Read please post # 80.

I advise you to read that thread and i'm sure that the answer to most of your questions were mentioned by others before you there and we answered it since a while.

If your question wasn't there so please post it here.

Why on earth should we take his book as a way to live in a modern society?

first of all, it wasn't his book. it's the words of God.
Secondly, this book will indeed make us civil people whether we were living back before 1400 years a go, now or even after more 1400 years from now until the judgment day and the end of this life.

I have been reading the Qur'an recently,

Great ..

and it seems to me quite violent in it's words, very 'blood and thunder' if you know what I mean. It does not seem to me particularly apt in the modern age, of freedom of expression, freedom of speech, and just basically freedom. It seems to me that Muslims are slaves to the ramblings of a man who we can see was not perfect (No less perfect than those around him I admit), who was possibly quite insane in fact.

Peace...

It seems to you violent. OK. Let's examine the verse which YOU already have been reading to see whether it was violent or not.

Please be free to post all the verses which you think it's bad to the humanity and don't talk in general.

Sure you have a copy of the Quran whether the book itself or an online copy of it.

So, We are here now and you have all the time you need to bring any verse and let's examine what does it say to conclude whether it was the same as you described or not.

Fair enough?

 

[mehrosh]

one thing that is worth noting is that Islam as a religion, stands fast, in that they do not alter their text in translations.

Hello Sir, nice to have you hear, and happy to know atleast someone thinks, atleast someone here is ready to listen, I don't understand why people don't want to listen or think over. No, Sir, it is not we who have protected our texts from altering, let me tell you that the ahadiths (the way of the Prophet) are altered by Muslims who don't believe in the truth. We are capable of protecting the Quran, it is God Himself, He has promised to protect it, and even the worst critics of Islam accept that the Quran is preserved word to word. How can it be changed when Jesus told the children of Isreal John 16:12-14---"I have yet many things to say unto you, but you cannot bear them now. How be it when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth; for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak; and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me; for he shall recieve of mine and he shall shew it unto you"---This 'person' whom Jesus prophesied will come after him is called in the Bible 'Parqaleeta' This word was deleted by the later interpreters and translators and changed at times to 'Spirit of TRUTH', and at other times, to 'Comforter' and sometimes to 'Holy Spirit'. The original Greek and its meaning is 'one whm people praise exceedingly.' The English Translation of the Arabic word "Muhammed".

 

[mehrosh]

And that is excatly why it is so out of date for modern society.

A book that is truely from God, and God tells you it will not be changed, and then if it changes then it is not from God.

 

[thinker_of_elves]

I have been reading the Qur'an recently

I know from where you are reading this Quran, the websites you offered in your first post, and that is the biggest problem, you are nothing but the bite of the Media, who fear Islam and try to Maline it. IF ISLAM IS A BLOODY RELIGION HOW IS THAT EVERY SINGLE DAY 400-500 PEOPLE ARE ACCEPTING ISLAM EVERYDAY ONLY IN AMERICA. You need to bring up the verses you thing are bloody. I hope you stay on the topic this time.

Nope, that's something I found a couple of days ago. I have a copy from The Oxford university press, translated by M.A.S. Abdel Haleem - Unfortunately it is not with me as I speak, but I wiill check here...
http://www.harunyahya.com/Quran_translation/Quran_translation4.php


Woman 91. Others you will find that wish to gain your confidence as well as that of their people: Every time they are sent back to temptation, they succumb thereto: if they withdraw not from you nor give you (guarantees) of peace besides restraining their hands, seize them and slay them wherever ye get them: In their case We have provided you with a clear argument against them.

 

[mehrosh]

Of course I understand freedom of religion. And I would fight for the principle. But Islam is far far away from being perfect.

I challenge you, PROVE IT

The fact remains that Muhammed did what he did. If he had been perfect he would have realised how vile the 'custom' was and shunned it. He didn't, he was human, not in anyway elevated above anyone around him.

WHO said that he is something above human, he said "don't praise me, just call me the slave of God" He was a normal human being, the only difference was he recieved the revelation,

 

[mehrosh]

Woman 91. Others you will find that wish to gain your confidence as well as that of their people: Every time they are sent back to temptation, they succumb thereto: if they withdraw not from you nor give you (guarantees) of peace besides restraining their hands, seize them and slay them wherever ye get them: In their case We have provided you with a clear argument against them.

Very nice, good that you bought up this verse. This verse was revealed when the peace treaty was broken between the muslims and the non-muslims by the non-muslims, on which God commanded the Prophet that if they still don't cease and don't come at peace, slay them wherever you find them. A commander, when addressing his army for war will address them to "slay the enemy wherever they find them" he will not tell them that go and stand there like stray mice.

 

[mehrosh]

Any Thing Else That You Have To Offer

 

[c0da]

and you are using the weapon many enemies of ISLAM use. WHEN THEY HAVE NOTHING LEFT, AND THEY CAN'T SWALLOW THE TRUTH,

It is a 'weapon' some people MUST resort to because some stubborn people will refuse to accept perfectly valid points that may be considered 'flaws' in your religion.

If you challenge somebody to debate your religious beliefs you must be able to look at a balanced view rather than telling people that they are completely wrong and throwing your stupid 'car/driver' analogy at them, however politely you may be putting it.

 

[mehrosh]

It is a 'weapon' some people MUST resort to because some stubborn people will refuse to accept perfectly valid points that may be considered 'flaws' in your religion.

If you challenge somebody to debate your religious beliefs you must be able to look at a balanced view rather than telling people that they are completely wrong and throwing your stupid 'car/driver' analogy at them, however politely you may be putting it.

I didn't challenge anybody, rather I told them to bring up their preceptions about Islam. If they are weird enough to get into someone's private life, that is not the part of the debate, and morever that is not a religious belief as you have mentioned. If you people bring up a flaw in the teachings of Islam, I will attend it, but bringing up such nonsense has nothing to do with this thread. I don't find anyone sincere with the thread's topic.

 

[thinker_of_elves]

I challenge you, PROVE IT



WHO said that he is something above human, he said "don't praise me, just call me the slave of God" He was a normal human being, the only difference was he recieved the revelation,

Sheesh. Calm down. I don't think any proof I suggested, you would regard as such. You are blinded and enslaved by your beliefs...

If Islam is so perfect, tell me of one tiny area in the world where it works, without predjudices, and with equality of all it's people.

Islams greatest advert is it's people, and whilst I accept that some of the atrocities commited in the name of Islam, are not by true Muslims, they thought they were

 

[mehrosh]

Sheesh. Calm down. I don't think any proof I suggested, you would regard as such. You are blinded and enslaved by your beliefs...

If Islam is so perfect, tell me of one tiny area in the world where it works, without predjudices, and with equality of all it's people.

Islams greatest advert is it's people, and whilst I accept that some of the atrocities commited in the name of Islam, are not by true Muslims, they thought they were

Listen Sir, I have answered this question of your, I am not a judge of the Muslims here, go back to the main page and read the topic, PRECEPTIONS ABOUT ISLAM,,,,,NOT PRECEPTIONS ABOUT MUSLIMS.

 

[mehrosh]

Comment on the teachings of Islam and you are welcome

 

[thinker_of_elves]

Listen Sir, I have answered this question of your, I am not a judge of the Muslims here, go back to the main page and read the topic, PRECEPTIONS ABOUT ISLAM,,,,,NOT PRECEPTIONS ABOUT MUSLIMS.

Semantics.

The perception of Islam around the world at the moment is that it breeds violent followers. Please name me one place I could look at and say, yes Islam works, look how wonderful it is.

 

[mehrosh]

Semantics.

The perception of Islam around the world at the moment is that it breeds violent followers. Please name me one place I could look at and say, yes Islam works, look how wonderful it is.

OK, Thanks and now stay on the topic, MUSLIMS ARE VIOLENT,TERRORISTS, Right, wanna start the discussion......??????

 

[thinker_of_elves]

OK, Thanks and now stay on the topic, MUSLIMS ARE VIOLENT,TERRORISTS, Right, wanna start the discussion......??????

No. I didnt say that Muslims are violent terrorists.

This is however a perception. One that is being perpetuated by world events.

 

[mehrosh]

No. I didnt say that Muslims are violent terrorists.

This is however a perception. One that is being perpetuated by world events.

Listen, please try to be clear, World events,....is thats what you wanna talk about...which world events....we can discuss..

 

[thinker_of_elves]

Listen, please try to be clear, World events,....is thats what you wanna talk about...which world events....we can discuss..

I would first like an answer to my earlier question - Please name me one place where Islam is working, where I can visit and see it for myself.

 

[Mike182]

Hello Sir, nice to have you hear, and happy to know atleast someone thinks, atleast someone here is ready to listen, I don't understand why people don't want to listen or think over. No, Sir, it is not we who have protected our texts from altering, let me tell you that the ahadiths (the way of the Prophet) are altered by Muslims who don't believe in the truth. We are capable of protecting the Quran, it is God Himself, He has promised to protect it, and even the worst critics of Islam accept that the Quran is preserved word to word. How can it be changed when Jesus told the children of Isreal John 16:12-14---"I have yet many things to say unto you, but you cannot bear them now. How be it when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth; for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak; and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me; for he shall recieve of mine and he shall shew it unto you"---This 'person' whom Jesus prophesied will come after him is called in the Bible 'Parqaleeta' This word was deleted by the later interpreters and translators and changed at times to 'Spirit of TRUTH', and at other times, to 'Comforter' and sometimes to 'Holy Spirit'. The original Greek and its meaning is 'one whm people praise exceedingly.' The English Translation of the Arabic word "Muhammed".

if you will forgive my ignorance, i was unaware that the Bible and Islam were linked as such........ thanks for that!

thinker_of_elves: you can speak for yourself, but i know that i don't see Islam as producing

violent followers

i know that after september 11th, and after the attacks on London, the islamic leaders in England worked in co-operation with christian leaders (of many denominations) to show religious unity AGAINST terrorism! seriously, don't let the media tell you what to think

in response to your idea that Islam is an out of date religion fo rmodern society, i will ask, how is a religion centred on peace out of date? show your evidence for your oppinion, and then we can debate.

 

[mehrosh]

I would first like an answer to my earlier question - Please name me one place where Islam is working, where I can visit and see it for myself.

My HOUSE, your welcome