thinker_of_elves
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“It is not disbelief that is dangerous to our society; it is belief”
“It is not disbelief that is dangerous to our society; it is belief”
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I agree that Arabs stole the modern system of integers from Hindus, but wasn't algebra pretty much an Arab invention?frg001 said:The modern number system was created by the Hindu's about 300 years before the Qur'an was written.
DakotaGypsy said:I agree that Arabs stole the modern system of integers from Hindus, but wasn't algebra pretty much an Arab invention?
mehrosh said:I am impressed with your reply, as well as your stamina. Well! i am posting in this thread continously, the point I am try to stress hard on is that, please don't judge Islam by looking at the Muslims, rather Judge it by looking at Muhammed.
mehrosh said:Only than you are welcome to pose your questions. No one judges a car by looking at any other driver, we need a perfect driver to test drive the Car. Right? I know you agree with me.
mehrosh said:I appreciate your knowledge, but sorry, The message was there from Adam, but hey, why am I telling you all this, when you don't believe in it.
mehrosh said:We should start from begining, why are you jumping between topics
mehrosh said:you don't believe in God right? How can I explain the existance of Islam from the begining when you don't belive in it's sender. I think we should discuss that first, and then come to all this. To disbelieve in God, you need to define it first, because when you disbelieve in something, you at least need to have some image of it, in your mind. Then I will come back to this topic (promise, not to forget) and please be precise, don't practice double standards.
mehrosh said:Here I see another question arising, Is Quran the word of God or not? and this is the third one i think, the first one was, is Muhammed a Prophet, the second, Does God Exists, and this is the last one,...I find your reply to be full of questions rather than ideas, as we have started from Muhammed, I will discuss that first.
mehrosh said:You have taken the support of many words twisted, but I will assume your assumption about Muhammed to be this "Muhammed didn't recieve any revelation, but he was only too intelligent to dictate the Quran"? am I Right? No I am not going to go on with the discussion until you confirm this. I don't want any hassel bassel later on. I see you too are very intelligent, but I will appreciate if you stay in logical limits and be precise....Don't take me wrong, I am facing many such people who don't know what they are saying.....Thanks and heartly regards.
Pretty much ... no.DakotaGypsy said:I agree that Arabs stole the modern system of integers from Hindus, but wasn't algebra pretty much an Arab invention?
The origins of algebra can be traced to the ancient Babylonians, who used an early type of algebra to solve linear, quadratic, and Diophantine equations (first-order indeterminate equations) in the second millenium BC. By contrast, most Egyptians of this era, and most Indian, Greek and Chinese mathematicians in the first millennium BC usually solved such equations by geometric methods, such as those described in the Moscow and Rhind Mathematical Papyri, Sulba Sutras, Euclid's Elements, and The Nine Chapters on the Mathematical Art.
Indian and Hellenistic mathematicians proceeded to write treatises on algebraic means of solving equations from the first millennium AD. The most well-known works on algebra from this general era include that of Hero of Alexandria, the Arithmetica of Diophantus, the writings of the Indian mathematicians Aryabhata and Brahmagupta, and the work of Persian mathematician Al-Khwarizmi.
The word "algebra" is named after Kitab al-Jabr wa-l-Muqabala, meaning The book of Summary Concerning Calculating by Transposition and Reduction, a book written by Al-Khwarizmi in 820. The word al-jabr means "reunion". Al-Khwarizmi is often considered the "father of modern algebra" (though that title is also given to Diophantus), as much of his works on reduction are still in use today. Another Persian mathematician Omar Khayyam developed algebraic geometry and found the geometric solution of cubic equations.
- see Wikipedia
Muhammed was not a dirty Old Man, but the Last Messenger Of God, WHEN YOU SAY SOMETING, YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO PROVE IT
thinker_of_elves said:How can I prove it. He died a very long time ago. The only 'proof' is in your sacred texts. The fact remains that a 52 year old bloke had sex with a 9 year old girl, and now you revere him, and for some reason so do 100's of millions of other people.
And as to semantics... I wonder what the consensus would be if I asked 1000 random people if they thought a 50+ year old sleeping with a pre-pubescant 9 year old was NOT paedophilia. I wonder!
People from this present time or people from the past time? It's awfully wrong to for you to see it and judge it based on modern culture. For your information, in England in the 1700's it was legal for a girl to enter into marriage at around the age of 7, when it was deemed she was old enough to understand the implications of her actions, but the marriage couldn't legally be consumated until she reached the age of consent, which is the end of first menstruation. Now, females at that past time matured earlier than females from this present time. Just because Muhammad pbuh married a 9 year old in the past does not make him a paedophilia, but rather it is used as a weapon for someone to attack a religion which they really dont know anything about.thinker_of_elves said:How can I prove it. He died a very long time ago. The only 'proof' is in your sacred texts. The fact remains that a 52 year old bloke had sex with a 9 year old girl, and now you revere him, and for some reason so do 100's of millions of other people.
And as to semantics... I wonder what the consensus would be if I asked 1000 random people if they thought a 50+ year old sleeping with a pre-pubescant 9 year old was NOT paedophilia. I wonder!
Well, if you cant prove it, then dont make statements which you cant prove yourself! Arguments with no proofs is like a house without foundations.thinker_of_elves said:How can I prove it. He died a very long time ago. The only 'proof' is in your sacred texts.
That's true. In many cultures marriages took place, but were not consumated until after the girl/woman started menstrating.Nehustan said:Oh I missed this one...the old paedophilia accusation raises its head. Its true that Muhammad married Aisha when she was young, whereupon she joined the Prophet's household. Upon reaching maturity (i.e. puberty) as instructed in Islam, the marriage was consumated. Exactly the same happened with every culture at the time. Childhood is a very recent creation (go back and ask chimney sweeps in London).
I think (and this may offend some) the general axiom that applied concerning sexual relations on the Arab Peninsula and everywhere else at the time is this...
'If she can bleed she can breed'
Nature has a very definite way to differentiate the girl from the woman.
The Truth said:I'm so surprised in how people forgot that the first who would attack his marriage would be his enemies at that time.
They claimed that he was crazy, poet or even magican but no one ever blamed him for marrying Aisha because it was common at that time to marry the girl when her mom notice that she is prepared for it.
Everybody was practicing this in that time whether they were arabs or not.
The Truth said:I think this is a success until now that no one could attack the message "Islam" itself but they are trying hardly to attack a normal common "LEGAL" marriage at that time.
Therefore, we know now that Islam is perfect and Mohammed the one who hold the message was indeed, perfect too.
Peace ...
frg001 said:Quite possibly, but I just wanted to set that particular record straight. Oh what fun this thread appears to be
thinker_of_elves said:I have been reading the Qur'an recently, and it seems to me quite violent in it's words, very 'blood and thunder' if you know what I mean. It does not seem to me particularly apt in the modern age, of freedom of expression, freedom of speech, and just basically freedom. It seems to me that Muslims are slaves to the ramblings of a man who we can see was not perfect (No less perfect than those around him I admit), who was possibly quite insane in fact.
thinker_of_elves said:How can I prove it. He died a very long time ago. The only 'proof' is in your sacred texts. The fact remains that a 52 year old bloke had sex with a 9 year old girl, and now you revere him, and for some reason so do 100's of millions of other people.
And as to semantics... I wonder what the consensus would be if I asked 1000 random people if they thought a 50+ year old sleeping with a pre-pubescant 9 year old was NOT paedophilia. I wonder!
thinker_of_elves said:Ok for one moment let's excuse him as 1400 years ago, this is how life was... Why on earth should we take his book as a way to live in a modern society?
I have been reading the Qur'an recently, and it seems to me quite violent in it's words, very 'blood and thunder' if you know what I mean. It does not seem to me particularly apt in the modern age, of freedom of expression, freedom of speech, and just basically freedom. It seems to me that Muslims are slaves to the ramblings of a man who we can see was not perfect (No less perfect than those around him I admit), who was possibly quite insane in fact.
Peace...
thinker_of_elves said:Ok for one moment let's excuse him as 1400 years ago, this is how life was... Why on earth should we take his book as a way to live in a modern society?
Mike182 said:you talk of freedom of speach, freedom of expression, freedom in general........ freedom of religion mean anything to ya?
you are applying a 21st century ethic to an older culture, is there any wonder you are blind to the arguments you have seen here? people have already explained the custom of taking a young bride, and then the marriage was consumated when she reached her first period. you are trying to look at this custom with 21st century morality, and that is the wrong way to look at it.
do you not realise that today, the age of "coming" into adulthood is higher than before? yes he married Aisha, but she was an adult when they consumated their marriage.