Personal Views: The Trinity

[Katzpur]

A spiritual connection, you could say like ESP, i wood presume

Right on. So do you believe the Son and the Holy Ghost to also be divine beings? Or is only the Father divine in your opinion?

 

[Freelancer7]

I wood Imagine that the 3 are all devine, or when they totally become devine by nature then the unison of the Trinity wood happen, I personally believe.

 

[rocketman]

Huh?

'The' name.

Okay, so how is it that the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost apparently have the same name?

Jesus said it, not me.

I don't think they do, but I do think that they share the title of "God."

There is only one God. Deut 6:4. According to YHWH he is the only God that ever was, is or will be. Is 43:10,11

This verse clearly states that there is a Father, a Son, and a Holy Ghost.

Remember that the bulk of christians believe that Jesus is God, and the spirit is God and that there is only one God; so the trinity makes more sense to them.

As far as describing their relationship in the terms used by the fourth and fifth century creeds, it just doesn't do that.

No, it doesn't seem to describe the relationship according to the LDS model.

The article of faith by the Nicene was, in the face of challenges, an attempt to standardise teachings that already existed, not invent new ones. It is a logical assessment based on what is already there in scripture if one already accepts that Jesus is God and the Spirit is God, both teachings of which are arguably present in the NT.

As I said, each to their own. I'm not going to clog up this thread with debate, I want to see what personal opinion others have of the trinity. My own is pretty close to modalism. Given that the trinity was always taught as something deeply mysterious and not fully able to be understood, it's hardly going to make or break anyone's salvation, but it's interesting.

 

[Katzpur]

Jesus said it, not me.

So the Father, Son and Holy Ghost are all YHWH, according to your understanding of the scriptures?

Remember that the bulk of christians believe that Jesus is God, and the spirit is God and that there is only one God; so the trinity makes more sense to them.

Well, I also believe that God the Father, His Son Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost are God, and I also believe that they are one God. I think the gist of the problem is what is actually meant by the words "one God." Since "God" and "Godhead" are synonyms, I understand "one God" to mean "one Godhead." When it comes to what makes sense, I've actually talked to many people on this forum alone who wholeheartedly accept the doctrine of the Trinity even though they readily admit that it doesn't make sense to them.

No, it doesn't seem to describe the relationship according to the LDS model.

I don't think it describes the relationship according to the Bible, either.

The article of faith by the Nicene was, in the face of challenges, an attempt to standardise teachings that already existed, not invent new ones. It is a logical assessment based on what is already there in scripture if one already accepts that Jesus is God and the Spirit is God, both teachings of which are arguably present in the NT.

Well, that's where we differ. Of course it's the winners who write history, so it's easy enough now for trinitarians to talk as if the Trinity were a doctrine that always existed. Had that been the case, the writers of the Nicene and Athanasian Creeds could have simply resolved the issue by an appeal to the scriptures.

As I said, each to their own. I'm not going to clog up this thread with debate, I want to see what personal opinion others have of the trinity.

My apologies. I didn't stop to notice that this thread isn't on a debate forum. It's just that any "discussion" on the Trinity almost always ends up as a debate. But seeing as that was not your intention and I've aready stated my position, I'll not comment further.

Given that the trinity was always taught as something deeply mysterious and not fully able to be understood, it's hardly going to make or break anyone's salvation, but it's interesting.

I'll go along with that, i.e. the part about it not making or breaking anyone's salvation. I can't conceive of a loving Father in Heaven who would arbitrarily condemn someone to an eternity in hell over a misunderstanding concerning some point of doctrine.

 

[rocketman]

So the Father, Son and Holy Ghost are all YHWH, according to your understanding of the scriptures?

That makes the most sense to me.

I think the gist of the problem is what is actually meant by the words "one God."

Agreed.

It's just that any "discussion" on the Trinity almost always ends up as a debate.

So true! It's hard not to...

I'll go along with that, i.e. the part about it not making or breaking anyone's salvation. I can't conceive of a loving Father in Heaven who would arbitrarily condemn someone to an eternity in hell over a misunderstanding over some point of doctrine.

Exactly.

 

[litewave]

[FONT=&quot]Son and Holy Spirit are the two fundamental perspectives: the former is the analytic perspective of individuality, the latter is the holistic perspective of the Whole. Son is the force of individuation and Holy Spirit is the force of unification. Son differentiates (analysis), Holy Spirit merges (holism).

Without Holy Spirit, reality would disintegrate into isolated parts because of Son; without Son, the parts would merge and cease to exist because of Holy Spirit. In either case, the creative process would come to a halt. Therefore, both polarities seem necessary for creation. I wrote more about these two perspectives earlier this year, in my very first post.

Father is the unification and source of these two perspectives.

That was the trinity of God. There is an analogical trinity of man: mind, spirit and body. Mind is like Son and spirit is like Holy Spirit, but on a more confined, specialized, materially-oriented level. Mind and spirit operate within material body, in which they should be unified. They seem to be reflected in the information processing styles of the two brain hemispheres: the left hemisphere is analytic, the right is holistic.

If you imagine the trinity of God as a triangle pointing upward and the trinity of man as a triangle pointing downward, and then overlap these two triangles, you'll get the Star of David... the union of God and man, according to my interpretation. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]As God and man integrate, the resulting system is capable of operating both on non-material and material level in perfect coordination.[/FONT]

 

[Mister Emu]

I third what Scott said...

 

[Luke_17:2]

I've always viewed it as the Bible says:

First of all, the Trinity exists:

"For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse" -Romans 1:20

"Hear oh Israel, the Lord our God is one Lord" -Deuteronomy 6:4

Obviously God is one God.

"In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God" -John 1:1

Jesus, who is the Word, is obviously God.

Another verse:

"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace." -Isaiah 9:6

"How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?" -Hebrews 9:14

Through this verse we can see that the Godhead acts as one. -They all took part in the process of redemption

So, all in all, I've always considered the Trinity to be like a wheel -three constituent parts that make up a single wheel that works as one without friction.

 

[sandandfoam]

I have a question. I like reason and haven't even come close to figuring all this stuff out. My instinct is that there is a benevalant something greater than us, what Litewave said - "There is an analogical trinity of man: mind, spirit and body" fits with my concept of man, could I be a Christian after all?

 

[rocketman]

I have a question. I like reason and haven't even come close to figuring all this stuff out. My instinct is that there is a benevalant something greater than us, what Litewave said - "There is an analogical trinity of man: mind, spirit and body" fits with my concept of man, could I be a Christian after all?

Some might argue that God is opening your mind to the possibility through things that interest you. He is a personal God after all. Might be worth looking into.

 

[litewave]

I have a question. I like reason and haven't even come close to figuring all this stuff out. My instinct is that there is a benevalant something greater than us, what Litewave said - "There is an analogical trinity of man: mind, spirit and body" fits with my concept of man, could I be a Christian after all?

I also recommend the video for Rihanna's song Umbrella. Seriously.

 

[Luke_17:2]

I have a question. I like reason and haven't even come close to figuring all this stuff out. My instinct is that there is a benevalant something greater than us, what Litewave said - "There is an analogical trinity of man: mind, spirit and body" fits with my concept of man, could I be a Christian after all?

To be a Christian you must be born again. (John 3:7)

You cannot fully understand until then. (I Corinthians 2:14)

Look into it, though. :yes:

 

[sandandfoam]

I was out running this morning and thinking about all this stuff. I do think it is very important to have an open mind and I try to. This is a bit crazy, but what the heck, I talk things through with myself out loud when I'm running, I find it helps with clarity. So there I was running along a quiet road in open country, foggy grey cold morning, thinking about this stuff, I said out loud "ok I'm ready for this, my mind is open" at that instant a warm sun came out from behind the clouds. It sound nuts doesn't it? If someone else related this to me I'd say 'yeah right'. Coincidence or not that moment had meaning for me, I've felt a bit different all morning. Funny old world isn't it?

 

[*Paul*]

I've always viewed it as the Bible says:

First of all, the Trinity exists:





Obviously God is one God.



Jesus, who is the Word, is obviously God.

Another verse:





Through this verse we can see that the Godhead acts as one. -They all took part in the process of redemption

It's good to have some new brothers and sisters here. Keep the faith.

 

[Katzpur]

I have a question. I like reason and haven't even come close to figuring all this stuff out. My instinct is that there is a benevalant something greater than us, what Litewave said - "There is an analogical trinity of man: mind, spirit and body" fits with my concept of man, could I be a Christian after all?

Of course you could be a Christian. If you are, though, it's between you and God, not between you and a bunch of strangers on the internet. You don't need to accept the doctrine of the Trinity to be a Christian either. Then again, if you do accept the doctrine of the Trinity, it won't exclude you from being a Christian. Whether or not the Trinity is a true doctrine and whether or not you are a true Christian are two entirely separate issues.

 

[Scott C.]

Latter-day Saints start with three Beings, the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. We then explain in what way they are one God, while staying three Beings. Other Christians start with one Being and then explain in what way He is three beings, while staying one God. I think that sums up the difference pretty well.

 

[Freelancer7]

Of course you could be a Christian. If you are, though, it's between you and God, not between you and a bunch of strangers on the internet. You don't need to accept the doctrine of the Trinity to be a Christian either. Then again, if you do accept the doctrine of the Trinity, it won't exclude you from being a Christian. Whether or not the Trinity is a true doctrine and whether or not you are a true Christian are two entirely separate issues.

Sweet.

The basic doctrine of the commandments that Christ came into the world with:

Love your neighbour as yourself and love the Creator.

 

[jacquie4000]

To be honest I think little of the trinity. Their are far to many ways to explain it, and far to many fights over what is correct. I spend more time reflecting on I can do in this life to make a difference.

 

[Freelancer7]

Obviously. I agree with you, but wonder how you would explain Jesus' statement, "I and my Father are one."

the connection betwen the two, like, feel the same heart pumping but are in two different places, or, the father makes a move and the son knows the fathers actions.

 

[Katzpur]

the connection betwen the two, like, feel the same heart pumping but are in two different places, or, the father makes a move and the son knows the fathers actions.

LOL! That was the most belated answer to a question I've ever seen!