Please Explain: "Gay Christian"

[Thruve]

Brother, maybe I don't have a right to comment here for two reasons, one being the fact that I am no expert and the second being me heterosexual.

But I feel that you, especially a person who talks like you must raise a child. What's wrong with it? If the society is liberal now in the future they might be more liberal. Anyway as a person you should take that step and look in the face of the world with no doubt.

I don't know brother, maybe you can adopt if you are having a male partner. This world is rampant with bad parenting, shot gun weddings that sometimes leave the child stranded because the parents didn't intend to have a child and sometimes the parents are simply not good parents because they don't yearn for a child. I personally believe that wanting a child is human nature and there is nothing wrong with it. And someone who says what you said in this post will be a fantastic parent (I believe) and a child in this world deserves to have you as a parent. I just can picture you looking at a co-workers baby and thinking holding the child would tease your soul. Now I say, that't the type of parent any child needs. Bloody hell, you gonna be one hell of a parent and you should go about it.

Screw every thing else.

Peace

Ty for the support boss.

Mind, it is very difficult to find a male my age (22) who would share such a view. Given the current state of what many define as "gay lifestyle/culture", the liklihood of finding a male whos as committed to a marriage (between ourselves, As I don't care for gay rights nor gay marriage being legal) to raise a family is unlikely. VERY unlikely. In all seriousness, Id have to wait to my 30's. Gay men around their 30's seem to have more of a conservative concept on life after realizing their future in reference to relationships, etc. Id prefer to fill that gap with raising a family. I have faith that someday Ill meet someone who shares such views. Until then, Im givingmy current relationship all Ive got.

Note* I am socially liberal, but politically and economically conserv.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Interesting you should tell such a story. Down here in south Florida, more specifically Wilton Manners (Google to understand its history to gays), there's 1-2 gay churches to which one, I've been told, preaches that it is entirely possible for a gay man to happily preside in a relationship with a female. The abstinence required, mainly if children are considered, would be quite tough, but that the pastor had acknowledged it is possible, especially with a female who is also gay. I guess this was brought up because there are gay males who desire children, mainly a son. This story always caught my attention because though I too like men, I very much would like to raise a DAM FAMILY and raise a son, and perhaps a daughter. I want children so dam bad, but im sexually attracted to men. What do I do.. What do I do..

So =) I came across a Lesbian once That I was best friends with in highschool for some time, and after we both graduated, we became hella close. Our relationship as friends became stronger because of our faith in God, and our view on homosexuality, given we were both gay but almost entirely opposites on how we each perceived the man, and the woman. We agreed that in the near future that we COULD.. get married, have children, and if everything became rough around the edges due to our sexuality, we would have bf/gfs on the side, that the mother/father aspect would simply be the mask to our children encase we interpreted that it was not right.. to raise children under such a circumstance.

After a few years, we both got boyfriends/girlfriends to which we loved and as of now we no longer communicate at all. Our relationship has dwindled to nodda, but I anticipate that to change sometime in the future. I feel our business for one another isn't over yet.

Anyhow, as of late, I decided that me having children, but yet wanting a BF for sexual/emotional reasons, whether im married to a female/lesbian female or not, would be very selfish of me. Whether my children eventually agreed with my attempt to raise a family and deal my sexuality at the same time or not, that I could never assume that my children would psychologically turn out alright. I told myself on the other hand to wait just one minute.. Divorce.. affairs... drugs... etc, that all these things occur within families that often turn children off to a dangerous path, that how could my attempt to raise a family given my sexuality even be compared to other families where kids end up on a dark path, especially when Im confident that I could raise one hell of an amazing family thats strong, faithful, etc.

Right now I have no plans to start a family as I have no freaking idea how to go about it, and because I feel such an attempt would be selfish of me but the Lord knows how bad I want a son/or daughter in my hands after birth knowing I am to raise and set him/her off into the world prepared for what it throws at them. Just two days ago a women brought in her baby girl and was letting my coworkers hold the baby, when the baby was offered up for me to hold I decline knowing it would tease my soul lol I whimpered a bit, sucked it up, and went about my day. Meh. People think homosexuals don't have issues as a result of their faith, though their "Free" as you described in the passage above, but I assure you we do.

Just adopt or get a surrogate. No need to live a charade. There's nothing wrong with being a gay parent. You may also meet a man who has a kid from a prior relationship, too. But you're in your 20s, so there's no need to rush.

 

[McNap]

Interesting you should tell such a story. Down here in south Florida, more specifically Wilton Manners (Google to understand its history to gays), there's 1-2 gay churches to which one, I've been told, preaches that it is entirely possible for a gay man to happily preside in a relationship with a female. The abstinence required, mainly if children are considered, would be quite tough, but that the pastor had acknowledged it is possible, especially with a female who is also gay. I guess this was brought up because there are gay males who desire children, mainly a son. This story always caught my attention because though I too like men, I very much would like to raise a DAM FAMILY and raise a son, and perhaps a daughter. I want children so dam bad, but im sexually attracted to men. What do I do.. What do I do..

So =) I came across a Lesbian once That I was best friends with in highschool for some time, and after we both graduated, we became hella close. Our relationship as friends became stronger because of our faith in God, and our view on homosexuality, given we were both gay but almost entirely opposites on how we each perceived the man, and the woman. We agreed that in the near future that we COULD.. get married, have children, and if everything became rough around the edges due to our sexuality, we would have bf/gfs on the side, that the mother/father aspect would simply be the mask to our children encase we interpreted that it was not right.. to raise children under such a circumstance.

After a few years, we both got boyfriends/girlfriends to which we loved and as of now we no longer communicate at all. Our relationship has dwindled to nodda, but I anticipate that to change sometime in the future. I feel our business for one another isn't over yet.

Anyhow, as of late, I decided that me having children, but yet wanting a BF for sexual/emotional reasons, whether im married to a female/lesbian female or not, would be very selfish of me. Whether my children eventually agreed with my attempt to raise a family and deal my sexuality at the same time or not, that I could never assume that my children would psychologically turn out alright. I told myself on the other hand to wait just one minute.. Divorce.. affairs... drugs... etc, that all these things occur within families that often turn children off to a dangerous path, that how could my attempt to raise a family given my sexuality even be compared to other families where kids end up on a dark path, especially when Im confident that I could raise one hell of an amazing family thats strong, faithful, etc.

Right now I have no plans to start a family as I have no freaking idea how to go about it, and because I feel such an attempt would be selfish of me but the Lord knows how bad I want a son/or daughter in my hands after birth knowing I am to raise and set him/her off into the world prepared for what it throws at them. Just two days ago a women brought in her baby girl and was letting my coworkers hold the baby, when the baby was offered up for me to hold I decline knowing it would tease my soul lol I whimpered a bit, sucked it up, and went about my day. Meh. People think homosexuals don't have issues as a result of their faith, though their "Free" as you described in the passage above, but I assure you we do.

I know.
Issues won't go away even though you're free.

I assume that you prefer to be heterosexual.

If you believe it's better to marry a girl and raise children, then I'm going to believe it along with you.
It's just that I don't want to set it as a standard for every homosexual.
But if you tell God that you want to be straight, then I'm sure he will give you what you want. If not in this life, then sure in the after life.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

But if you tell God that you want to be straight, then I'm sure he will give you what you want. If not in this life, then sure in the after life.

Doesn't work. God's not going to fix what's not broken.

 

[columbus]

Ty for the support boss.

Mind, it is very difficult to find a male my age (22) who would share such a view. Given the current state of what many define as "gay lifestyle/culture", the liklihood of finding a male whos as committed to a marriage (between ourselves, As I don't care for gay rights nor gay marriage being legal) to raise a family is unlikely. VERY unlikely. In all seriousness, Id have to wait to my 30's. Gay men around their 30's seem to have more of a conservative concept on life after realizing their future in reference to relationships, etc. Id prefer to fill that gap with raising a family. I have faith that someday Ill meet someone who shares such views. Until then, Im givingmy current relationship all Ive got.

Note* I am socially liberal, but politically and economically conserv.

Dangnation Thruve.
Do you have any idea how much envy you youngsters often make us oldsters feel when you describe your "problems"?
Well over 30 years ago, when I was your age, Reagan hadn't even been elected. The issue concerning gay people was not about marriage or adoption. The question was whether we could be imprisoned for crimes against nature.:help:

I sometimes wonder how different my life might have been if my best friend from childhood and I could have explored ourselves together. I think he was gay too. But that was the seventies. It was impossible without becoming hellbound scum.

Tom

 

[sojourner]

Dangnation Thruve.
Do you have any idea how much envy you youngsters often make us oldsters feel when you describe your "problems"?
Well over 30 years ago, when I was your age, Reagan hadn't even been elected. The issue concerning gay people was not about marriage or adoption. The question was whether we could be imprisoned for crimes against nature.:help:

I sometimes wonder how different my life might have been if my best friend from childhood and I could have explored ourselves together. I think he was gay too. But that was the seventies. It was impossible without becoming hellbound scum.

Tom

Yeah, but there was always homegrown ganga to fall back on back then...

 

[Thruve]

Dangnation Thruve.
Do you have any idea how much envy you youngsters often make us oldsters feel when you describe your "problems"?
Well over 30 years ago, when I was your age, Reagan hadn't even been elected. The issue concerning gay people was not about marriage or adoption. The question was whether we could be imprisoned for crimes against nature.:help:

I sometimes wonder how different my life might have been if my best friend from childhood and I could have explored ourselves together. I think he was gay too. But that was the seventies. It was impossible without becoming hellbound scum.

Tom

I agree boss, take into consideration this though:

Did u guys have to worry about stds as cautiously as we all have to now?
What about the frequent snowballers who intentionally pass stds out- out of anger of others. What about being a young lad at the mere age of 18 like I was, naive, dumb, and hopping online like we all do to reach out, unknowing of the dangers he's exposing himself to. Relentless daddies who want that young stud no matter the cost, even if he must strip away his dignity. Or others would offer money for sex, or drugs, and feed a monster within only to watch as that lad becomes destroyed. It happens ALL THE TIME. I have seen it, and I have heard too many stories of gay guys committing suicide over HIV, psychological disorders after abusive relationships. It's also ALL about looks porn smothers dating sites and hookup sites, so it's not like anything was innocent to begin with, all the while the influence of sex is constantly there. Nude everywhere, it's messed up. I can go on, but take that into consideration plz.
I find a lot of guys in their 30's are usually more calm, sexually less active, and typically begin the search for a companion. You have no any idea... How many lonely men I've seen, week after week after week. Just.. Mmph
All I ever wanted was to meet one, pray we chemically hit, and feel safe knowing I will actually be with somebody for the rest of my life. My biggest fear is being alone, because I see it so much in the gay community.

Envy us not.

I will agree that if covered by grace like I was, it is a blessing to be 'gay' and born in this decade, but for so many others it isn't. And you guys got double punched.

 

[columbus]

Envy us not.

I will agree that if covered by grace like I was, it is a blessing to be 'gay' and born in this decade, but for so many others it isn't. And you guys got double punched.

Hey buddy,
Two things are different, HIV and the internet. All the rest is the same. If anything the giant orgy that was gay male culture in preAIDS USA has been toned down enormously.

I still see most of it as a function of homophobic oppression on young people. If the only place you can get acceptance is around gay guys, you will tend to think with your dick. One of the biggest deals with gay marriage is the ability to imagine a life that is normal. Neither sex free nor revolving around sex. Sorta like your parents had, assuming you had normal parents. In the seventies that just wasn't possible. It wasn't even a consideration. Gay guys were expected to drink and drug themselves into early graves.

You, Thruve, would have been forced to choose between your partner and your religious community.

Tom

 

[Thruve]

Hey buddy,
Two things are different, HIV and the internet. All the rest is the same. If anything the giant orgy that was gay male culture in preAIDS USA has been toned down enormously.

I still see most of it as a function of homophobic oppression on young people. If the only place you can get acceptance is around gay guys, you will tend to think with your dick. One of the biggest deals with gay marriage is the ability to imagine a life that is normal. Neither sex free nor revolving around sex. Sorta like your parents had, assuming you had normal parents. In the seventies that just wasn't possible. It wasn't even a consideration. Gay guys were expected to drink and drug themselves into early graves.

You, Thruve, would have been forced to choose between your partner and your religious community.

Tom

About that boss, Names Josh btw, My dad is So far right its ground breaking. Growing up he was called the freedom fighter within the neighborhood, and was the 'Go to' man in reference to moral support, christian doctrines, and teachings. Rush Limpbisquet starred my dads truck at a tea party because of my dads conservative bumper stickers that are shockingly.. shocking. On the other hand, the only reason I call myself a christian is because of him. Though he very much dislikes my sexual orientation, and though he spent years hating gays, he had always taught me that god.. is love.. and he loves everybody. He taught me to think well beyond the box of dogma and religion and to know that no matter what, god loves you, he forgives you, and to never forget it. Therefore I NEVER battled my sexual orientation, but rather watched others battle theirs, and given I typically have a soft heart, I felt for others. My father also taught me to FIGHT. So naturally, I wouldn't of fought for my religious community because if I had to.. then something wasn't right with them. I am christian, but half the christian churches teach BS that points directly away from love and take verses out of context, get lazy and straight up teach bs doctrines, etc. Therefore I don't attend church, because if a pastor dare condemn homosexuals I would of fought with him right then and there, not over gay pride, but over God's love. So IF I was born under the same circumstances in the 70's, nothing would have changed.

I know what you older guys went through, I've been with a few =) And when I went through my hookup phases I was the dude you'd hook up with who didn't want to leave.. but would of invited conversation to learn. I don't understand how one could hookup, and just leave it at that. Anyway, One guy in particular was around his 40's and helped me when i was trying to finish HS because I was forced to live on my own with two part time jobs, school, etc. and had no where to stay given the rent here in this area is redic. He had moved to my area a few years prior to here in South Florida a from LA, which should tell you he knew the gay scene. He also had some pretty strict ground rules inorder for me to live with him, such that everything was kept spotless clean -.- like spotless, and that I was to cook every single thing that I ate, and that I was to not bring any harmful substance into the house (drugs). I played by those rules and finished out my senior year happily, thanks to him helping. God KNOWS.. had it not been for him Id of probably been on a wretched path. I knew what I was capable of, and I knew I could easily obtain money in the wrong way, and glad I didnt because of others I knew who did. Later on around 20, I learned that he was searching for his youth for whatever reason, and found him online going for younglings aswell which told me tons. Regardless, Ill never forget him, and the intercourse was an added benefit for the both of us, ontop of endless tee tree shampoo lol I love that stuff.. Anyhow, don't get the impression that the gay community is full of disorderly conduct, drugs, etc, and that there is light within and because I had Found it.. I so desire to be it for gay guys who reach out to me. I give Tough Love, rather.

From a personal standpoint, I would like to get married. The country however is not ready for it, nor us as a community just yet. And im willing to sacrafice it for the greater good (imo), and know I also want a family. As I said, we need more time. Personally, I want another decade so that as technology changes, and as our social views continue to change, when the time comes our 'community' will have evolved to hopefully a better place than it currently is. Finally theres dating websites now, and christian ones at that, that are hosting Gay dating branches of the website, which means there isn't porn advertised everywhere. They monitor Pics.. and treat profiles conservatively. Things are slowly changing, but were not there yet imo.

You may find this comical, but I got Banned from A4 because they had an entire Blog about safe sex and HIV awareness. I, being me, poked fun at them for posting BB porn everywhere inbetween from the headlines to the privacy links at the bottom, and for having profile stats that tell users if you prefer safe sex. I laughed in their faces for having the Audacity to make a blog about it, then I got banned -.- I tend to get banned from many websites lol

 

[firedragon]

Ty for the support boss.

Mind, it is very difficult to find a male my age (22) who would share such a view. Given the current state of what many define as "gay lifestyle/culture", the liklihood of finding a male whos as committed to a marriage (between ourselves, As I don't care for gay rights nor gay marriage being legal) to raise a family is unlikely. VERY unlikely. In all seriousness, Id have to wait to my 30's. Gay men around their 30's seem to have more of a conservative concept on life after realizing their future in reference to relationships, etc. Id prefer to fill that gap with raising a family. I have faith that someday Ill meet someone who shares such views. Until then, Im givingmy current relationship all Ive got.

Note* I am socially liberal, but politically and economically conserv.

This is such an unfair world. And brother, don't think I am all knowing of your situation or your mindset, but let me tell you that I am 15 years older than you, I still dont have a child nor am I married at the moment. There is enough time and you will, being such a nice guy find a good partner and an amazing life.

But kick good ***. If you want you can borrow my right foot.

Peace my brother.

 

[McNap]

Doesn't work. God's not going to fix what's not broken.

Yes, I'm sure you've got the spiritual skill to convince obliging gay christians of a better direction to go, Frank. You have my blessing.
But we all know there is room to make mistakes. I think it's best if both categories learn to respect each other.

If a gay brother decides to stay single I would appreciate it.
But it's wrong for heterosexual brothers to use the decision of such a gay brother as an example for other gay brothers to follow. Which is exactly what they were doing on a christian forum. They were manipulating us.
I've seen complete threads being removed by the staff. Or some other time I heard a gay member say: "Hey where has my reply gone that I posted the other day?" and I think they never answered to that because he was known as not religious, but I could tell he was interested in God.

 

[Sonofason]

I am gay, I am atheist, but I grew up in a "devout Christian home".

I understand that behavior is a choice; so I certainly understand that a celibate gay can be a Christian.

What I do not understand is the idea that a gay who is engaging in same sex relationships could, or would, identify themselves as Christian. It is a paradox to me.

We are well aware of the scriptures used to condemn homosexuality. The Old Testament, of course, condemned it. In the New Testament, Paul the Apostle called it "unnatural", made references towards homosexuality in the destruction of Sodom, and made it quite clear that "blah blah blah blah would not inherit the kingdom of Heaven", with homosexuality being on that list of blah blah blahs.

So: Gay Christians, specifically (it feels odd to type that; I feel like I'm typing an oxy moron), with the tenets of Christianity apparently so condemning of homosexuality, why do you find yourself drawn to it and how to you reconcile the apparent Christian doctrines that condemns us for what we are?

All sin is condemning. Without salvation in Christ, all are condemned.

 

[Sonofason]

They like to ignore the part where he says all sex is pretty much a sin in 1 Corinthians. I know we should be telling these Christians go out and sin no more but they know very well it is impossible. So at the end of the day everyone has their vices to deal with, harping on any of them as special is hypocritical.

I agree with this.

Everyone is sinful, and everyone has their own vices. It would certainly be unfair to harp on one particular sin, unless perhaps, that particular sin is the topic of a discussion, as is the case here.

We could be talking about the problem of lust and pornography that I believe is rampant among Christians. But we're not. We're discussing homosexual Christians.

The problem I see here is that there seems to be many Christians who are trying to suggest that homosexuality is okay. However, it is not. It is sin. Self justification of sin does not make the sin magically disappear. There is a reason Christ died for our sins. He did not die to save self-righteous people, He died to save sinners. If we deny that our sins are sins, then there is no reason for Christ to have died for our sins, in which case we will very quickly find ourselves in the Judgement seat of God, without an Advocate.

 

[Sonofason]

In fact Jesus changed the whole moral landscape. There is to be no more judging and throwing rocks at people who are different from you like they had in Mosaic Law. Jesus circumvented all that and create a New Law and a New Covenant.

Yes, no more rock throwing.

But do remember what Jesus said to the adulterous woman caught in the act of adultery, once the mob that wanted to stone her turned away in shame. He said to her, "go and sin no more".

Why did He say that?

 

[Sonofason]

I see your point.

However, you have interpreted more into that statement you are criticizing than what I intended. Perhaps I was not clear.

For one claiming any set of values whatsoever to make a bad decision that violates the value they claim, that is evidence of mere human fallibility.

There is a big difference between human fallibility and willful intent.

Thus: "Assuming (as most Christians probably would) that sexual relations between two people of the same gender is sinful, I suppose it would be just as logical for a non-celibate gay person to identify as a Christian as it would be for a person to lies, gossips, cheats or uses crude or vulgar language to identify as a Christian"; if these acts are committed with consistency and willful intent, it is not logical to identify as a Christian.

Hence, in order for the homosexual to be a Christian with a free conscience, he must adopt the ideology that homosexuality is not sinful.

 

[Sonofason]

You need to stop saying that when you don't agree with what someone has said.


I am obviously NOT pulling that info out of thin air.


THE BIBLE - does not give the meaning - that is a FACT.


There are NO know ancient uses of the word as homosexual - FACT.


What problem do you have with these FACTS?


Since the Bible does not tell us it is homosexuality, and no ancient source uses the word as homosexuality - it is common sense to assume it probably isn't homosexuality.



*

Actually if a compound word is used, and the root words of that word is known, and given that the word's precise meaning is not absolutely understood, it makes most sense to take a literal approach, ie, men in bed together.

 

[Sonofason]

I think a real god, a true god, would probably have better things to worry about than who you slept with and when.

But given that the evidence so far points to an epigenetic cause for homosexuality, I don't think god could condemn you for a malfunction in your biology/his creation.

No one is born gay. There are no gay babies. Sexual preference is learned behavior. There is no biological malfunction. Homosexuality is a psychological dysfunction.

 

[Sonofason]

Whats to know?
He Willingly took a cross for our sins, yet radical Christians damn homosexuals for their sins. Little do the radicalists know that the SIN ISSUE has already been taken care of, so to condemn others, especially homosexuals, is just asinine.
So clearly, most CHRISTIANS don't even know Jesus.. the same ones condemning people. It is such.. a dam easy concept to understand, accepting him is that simple, yet half of the christian doctrines teach stupidity like tithing and legalism.

Whether by gods will or not, I find many atheists don't have a constant internal battle over desire like some Christians do. I've met so many atheists that are good people.. turned off about god because of history and random events within their life, yet unknowingly live ideal christian lives and yet still call themselves atheists. Note* they are arrogant though >.<. Whether they willingly accept Jesus in this life or not doesn't matter, whether the process of Jesus changing their lives with/without their consent/knowledge should be the concern. Im pretty sure God understands the hate people have against him, especially to the extent where they just simply don't believe in him, but a GOD I KNOW to be love, loves them nonetheless, whether they accept Jesus or not imo.

Christians need to get off this do this or go to hell bs, its seriously edging me to madness. Focus on love, Focus on life, and live it. Just live and stop worrying about the salvation of others, its not in your hands. Christians are the problem, not Jesus, Not God.

Jesus' death on the cross does not justify the sins of everyone. Those who put their faith in Him are forgiven for their sins. Those who do not, aren't.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

No one is born gay. There are no gay babies. Sexual preference is learned behavior. There is no biological malfunction. Homosexuality is a psychological dysfunction.

Sexual orientation is not learned. If it were, we'd all be straight!

 

[Sonofason]

I actually agree with you on this one. The "F" word means nothing. I am not saying we should use expletives as Christians, but I would be more worried using "G**Dam*" than the "F-word".

Seems to me it would be glorifying to God if we would abstain from all such expletives as Christians, whether or not they endanger our salvation.