Please Explain how Joseph Smith could have possibly authored the Book of Mormon.

[Ringer]

The LDS church is kind of self contained. The high school age kids go to "seminary" -usually taught by a local church member volunteer. The church owns a couple college/ universities where their beliefs are taught. No mainstream Christian seminary that I know of teach the LDS version of Christianity.

Thanks for the reply. I assumed the obvious university would have been BYU and the possibility of a seminary/extension school dedicated to LDS teachings but was not sure if there were others.

 

[*Paul*]

I am just asking for a reasonable explanation of how he could have written it, and so far it's:
1. "evil/lying spirits".
2. Other people have done it, so it's not impossible.
Both answers have major problems.

What are the major problems with these possible explanations then?

You said to me that the book of Mormon has caused people to do much good to which I replied that the devil was pleased for people to live even religious lives so long as they were blinded to the gospel.

Mestemia gave examples of two other similar accounts which books have also changed lives and have it's adheants spouting out the benefits of their religion even on this site.

Autodidact said it was perfectly possible and convinced no - one and was from a language (reformed egyptian) that has never existed.

What is your response to these? I think it is fuutile as your brethren have warned you to try to do what you are doing.

 

[*Paul*]

The Quayyum'l Asma, written by The Bab between 1844 and 1846. He was executed in the Barracks Square in Tabriz, Iran at noon on the 9th of July, 1850.

Regards,
Scott

Here's another one. (just in case it was missed)

 

[Autodidact]

That does not mean, however that the documents were lost BEFORE they were copied.

For simple accuracy's sake . . . .

Regards,
Scott

I don't think so, although I'm not an expert. I believe the first scrap of a manuscript, "P51" dates from like 360 C.E. or something like that, and that the experts believe that the first gospels were actually written between 70 and 100 C.E.

 

[Starfish]

To write off the BoM as a miracle of Satan, or some evil spirit, is ridiculous. Why would anyone evil want a book that moves one towards Christ. Anyone relying on this explanation has not read the book thoroughly.

Others have done it? I still haven't heard of a comparable example. And the challenge to duplicate it is still out there. No one has.

Joseph had help? Those who have researched this possibility have discarded it. He simply did not have the resources. Even today, with our nearly infinite resources, no one has taken the challenge.

Again, if Joseph made the book up--then why? What did he have to gain by making up the BoM? He didn't need it to start a religion. Many religions begin without a new book of scripture. If anything, he could have simply written the Doctrine and Covenants, containing his own revelations. The Book of Mormon would have been an expensive waste of time. Even today, the Church sells copies at cost, never profiting from the sales.

 

[Fluffy]

In my opinion, a lying spirit. The bible does mention them.

Could Paul have seen a lying spirit?

 

[Starfish]

If God prefers records, it seems odd Jesus didn't leave one written by his own hand.
If as you say, God took the trouble to have various people write inspired words through out time, doesn't it seems odd he didn't have his only begotten Son leave a self written record?

How do we know he didn't? I'm not saying Christ did write anything, but how do we know?

The pattern of the prophets keeping written records is well established.

 

[Starfish]

Could Paul have seen a lying spirit?

That would make just about as much sense.

 

[Autodidact]

To write off the BoM as a miracle of Satan, or some evil spirit, is ridiculous. Why would anyone evil want a book that moves one towards Christ. Anyone relying on this explanation has not read the book thoroughly.

Others have done it? I still haven't heard of a comparable example. And the challenge to duplicate it is still out there. No one has.

Joseph had help? Those who have researched this possibility have discarded it. He simply did not have the resources. Even today, with our nearly infinite resources, no one has taken the challenge.

Again, if Joseph made the book up--then why?

As a religious con. Because he wanted to start a cult, which he did.

What did he have to gain by making up the BoM?

Control over a religious group, power, money, wives, everything he acquired as a result of starting the LDS church.

He didn't need it to start a religion. Many religions begin without a new book of scripture.

Well it worked, didn't it?

If anything, he could have simply written the Doctrine and Covenants, containing his own revelations. The Book of Mormon would have been an expensive waste of time. Even today, the Church sells copies at cost, never profiting from the sales.

Did it cost him much? I admit, it was an original take on how to start a new religion, but an effective one.

 

[Fluffy]

That would make just about as much sense.

Perhaps the lying spirit knew that the best way for its lies to remain undetected would be to imitate an appreciation of the words of God whilst adding in subtle but important additions that would spread evil. In fact, the best way to generate such an impression would be to trick a human into believing that it were God/JC and then feeding its message through that human's genuine feeling of loving devotion. The perfect mask.

 

[Autodidact]

How do we know he didn't? I'm not saying Christ did write anything, but how do we know?

I would think people would have kept it, don't you? And probably mentioned it. I mean, if you get this skeptical, then how do you know there ever was any such person?

The pattern of the prophets keeping written records is well established.

I think not doing so is more common: Jesus, Muhammed, Delphi, etc.

 

[Smoke]

To write off the BoM as a miracle of Satan, or some evil spirit, is ridiculous. Why would anyone evil want a book that moves one towards Christ. Anyone relying on this explanation has not read the book thoroughly.

Christians who use that explanation don't, of course, believe that the Book of Mormon moves one toward Christ. They believe the Christ of Mormonism is a false Christ, and Mormonism a false religion. From their point of view, it's possible that the devil cooked the whole thing up to lead people astray.

Others have done it? I still haven't heard of a comparable example. And the challenge to duplicate it is still out there. No one has.

The world is fairly well overrun with holy books, from the Vedas on down to the Book of Jeraneck. There are millions -- no, billions -- of people who find one or more of those books more impressive than the Book of Mormon. Of course, that's always going to be a matter of taste and opinion.

 

[madhatter85]

Or, ahow about this.

Why did so many religious leaders in that day harden thier hearts and cause persecutuions to fall upon a 14 year old boy who claimed to have seen God in a vision?

Why such Vehemency? so vehement in fact that he was martyred by an angry mob? That is not a chrisitan act. Violence and anger are not attributes of godliness, only attrubutes of evil.

but why pick out a 14 year old boy? Why care SO MUCH about a 14 year old boy? why not call him crazy and just let him be? why the persecutions?

seems to me that Satan did not want to let go of his hold on the hearts of men at the time and stirred them up to anger and violence against the young prophet.

Satan could not afford for the truth to be known, otherwise he would lose everything he has been working so hard to achieve. mainly our misery because he himself is miserable. "Misery Loves company"

 

[Autodidact]

Or, ahow about this.

Why did so many religious leaders in that day harden thier hearts and cause persecutuions to fall upon a 14 year old boy who claimed to have seen God in a vision?

Because he was a liar, a con-man and a cheat.

Why such Vehemency? so vehement in fact that he was martyred by an angry mob?

Because he stole their money.

That is not a chrisitan act. Violence and anger are not attributes of godliness, only attrubutes of evil.

I have to disagree. Every religion is violent at times.

but why pick out a 14 year old boy? Why care SO MUCH about a 14 year old boy? why not call him crazy and just let him be? why the persecutions?

I think you're confused. No one paid much attention to Joseph Smith until he started accumulating some power and followers.

seems to me that Satan did not want to let go of his hold on the hearts of men at the time and stirred them up to anger and violence against the young prophet.

Or maybe he was just really annoying.

Satan could not afford for the truth to be known, otherwise he would lose everything he has been working so hard to achieve. mainly our misery because he himself is miserable. "Misery Loves company"

How do you tell who's acting, Satan or God?

 

[Autodidact]

btw madhatter, what is your avatar? It looks like some kind of nose.

 

[Popeyesays]

I don't think so, although I'm not an expert. I believe the first scrap of a manuscript, "P51" dates from like 360 C.E. or something like that, and that the experts believe that the first gospels were actually written between 70 and 100 C.E.

I think you're missing the point.

What was written between 70-100 AD, may have been based on earlier documents and those earlier documents were lost AFTER 100 AD.

I.E, earlier documents probably existed. but now exist in the documents you cite.

Regards, Scott

 

[madhatter85]

Because he was a liar, a con-man and a cheat.

oh yeah? when? how? please enlighten me

Because he stole their money. I have to disagree. Every religion is violent at times.

stole what money? you mean because of "sheep stealing" tithes were getting paid to the LDS church and not the bible thumpers?

I think you're confused. No one paid much attention to Joseph Smith until he started accumulating some power and followers.

wrong, he was persecuted and "cast out" from his parent's churches and ridiculed in the streets for being "the boy who saw God"

Or maybe he was just really annoying.

Is this just an atagonistic post? or do you actually have anything useful to add to this thread?

How do you tell who's acting, Satan or God?

You shall know them by thier fruits.
Matthew 7:

16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

 

[madhatter85]

btw madhatter, what is your avatar? It looks like some kind of nose.

Clearly you have never played Halo 3

 

[Autodidact]

I think you're missing the point.

What was written between 70-100 AD, may have been based on earlier documents and those earlier documents were lost AFTER 100 AD.

I.E, earlier documents probably existed. but now exist in the documents you cite.

Regards, Scott

As I said, I'm not an expert, but I don't think so. I think the scholars think it was actually written about that time, in part because they think it was actually written, that is, composed, after the destruction of the Temple in 70 C.E. I suppose earlier documents may have been incorporated, but this would be a stretch. The thinking is that Christ's legacy was preserved in an oral tradition until someone finally wrote it down somewhere around then. I find it interesting that few Christians know this.

 

[madhatter85]

As I said, I'm not an expert, but I don't think so. I think the scholars think it was actually written about that time, in part because they think it was actually written, that is, composed, after the destruction of the Temple in 70 C.E. I suppose earlier documents may have been incorporated, but this would be a stretch. The thinking is that Christ's legacy was preserved in an oral tradition until someone finally wrote it down somewhere around then. I find it interesting that few Christians know this.

i highlighted the best parts.

I know for a fact that most christians do not know what you are thinking at all. just to clarify.

stop debating opinions and debate facts.and cite a few sources while ur at it. Thanks.