Poll: Churchill Statue

[Secret Chief]

Women's Suffrage in the British Empire

Perhaps that supports my view that it is best not to have public statues.


"This organisation campaigned mainly on equal rights for women, but under Fawcett also supported other causes such as the abolition of the slave trade, and forming a relief fund for South African women and children during the Boer war.

In 1901, there was growing outrage against the use of ‘scorched earth’ tactics against the Boer civilian population. As part of an investigation, Fawcett was asked to visit South Africa and report on conditions in the concentration camps. Her report confirmed early warnings that many were dying needlessly in the camps, though the official government version attributed the deaths to other factors."

Millicent Fawcett |  

 

[Altfish]

Another voice has been silenced, for the time being - Nigel Farage quits LBC radio show as contract not renewed | Daily Mail Online

I hope Talk Radio take advantage of Nigel’s availability.

LBC will see their ratings plummet along with the rest of the MSM.

They only have Nick Ferrari left of any calibre but he could be next - Nick Ferrari sparks fury after 'disgusting' comments to Afua Hirsch amid British race row

He has not been silenced.
This is down to capitalism; your show is only as good as the advertising it attracts.
After his recent anti-BLM comments numerous of the stations advertisers have asked for their adverts not to be played during Farage's show.

Market forces dear boy

 

[Tambourine]

Allowing for a headline writer's dramatic licence, it's not as ridiculous as you make it sound. Given it's Der Spiegel you know it's not likely to be an exercise in tub thumping jingoism at least.

While you can argue about the % chance, there was at least a genuine possibility the Nazis would have won the war in 1940 as many people in the British government wanted a negotiated peace. He played a pivotal role in preventing this from happening.

War cabinet crisis, May 1940 - Wikipedia

Before the Soviets and the Americans joined, many other leaders might not have been so determined to fight on for so long either. Goebbels didn't expect them to last long, "When will that creature Churchill finally capitulate? England cannot hold out forever!"

I'm sure you agree it wouldn't have been all that great for Europe had the war ended in 1940 or 41 with a British surrender and a Nazi victory.

Are you actually argueing that neither the US nor the USSR had anything to do with the Allied victory against the Axis?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

The mayor of London siddiq Khan is a great example of how stupid these loony lefties are,he wants to knock down all the statues with links to slavery and imperialism,

But if you got rid of slavery and imperialism, would England even have any history left worth celebrating?

 

[Tambourine]

But if you got rid of slavery and imperialism, would England even have any history left worth celebrating?

In a nutshell, I think that's actually a central problem for many right-wingers and conservatives. They seem to take the potential lack of such celebration as a source of deep existential despair.

 

[Mock Turtle]

But if you got rid of slavery and imperialism, would England even have any history left worth celebrating?

Would any country?

 

[Tambourine]

Would any country?

We have plenty of statues for poets and composers over here in Vienna. They don't get to sit on their high horse crushing peasants/uppity natives/labor movements though, which may disappoint some.

 

[Koldo]

History has taught us that not even books are immune from being destroyed.

Other forms of media are already being targeted.

Sure. But certainly statues are the least important part when it comes down to passing down history.

 

[Koldo]

When the Taliban destroyed the giant Buddhas and ISIS destroyed pagan religious imagery that was a specific attempt to erase this part of history from people's memory.

That doesn't mean they could possibly achieve what they intended. They would have to go much further than that. They would have to destroy every reference everywhere and make it forbidden to talk about the topic. One can not erase history by merely destroying statues. I have never seen a Churchill statue and I still know about him, the statues are completely unnecessary.

 

[England my lionheart]

We have plenty of statues for poets and composers over here in Vienna. They don't get to sit on their high horse crushing peasants/uppity natives/labor movements though, which may disappoint some.

How could they,they are dead.

 

[Stevicus]

Allowing for a headline writer's dramatic licence, it's not as ridiculous as you make it sound. Given it's Der Spiegel you know it's not likely to be an exercise in tub thumping jingoism at least.

While you can argue about the % chance, there was at least a genuine possibility the Nazis would have won the war in 1940 as many people in the British government wanted a negotiated peace. He played a pivotal role in preventing this from happening.

War cabinet crisis, May 1940 - Wikipedia

Before the Soviets and the Americans joined, many other leaders might not have been so determined to fight on for so long either. Goebbels didn't expect them to last long, "When will that creature Churchill finally capitulate? England cannot hold out forever!"

I'm sure you agree it wouldn't have been all that great for Europe had the war ended in 1940 or 41 with a British surrender and a Nazi victory.

I think Churchill's strategy may have been to hold on for as long as possible, while still hoping/expecting America and/or the Soviet Union to join. Even though they held off the Nazi onslaught during the Battle of Britain, they were clearly in no position to launch any offensives or invasions of the continent or take on the Germans single-handedly. (Even the U.S. was in no position to do that, even if we had entered the war. It would be years before we could build up enough forces to do that. That's part of the reason Americans of today are bit obsessive about stockpiling munitions, armaments, and guns, since we don't want to be caught empty-handed again.)

I think that Hitler probably always had his eyes on Russia; he considered the British Empire to be a stabilizing influence in the world and apparently had no great desire to see it broken. So, maybe he would have left Britain alone if they accepted his peace offer, but that would have freed up even more divisions for the Germans to use against Russia. I think Germany's invasion of Russia was inevitable regardless of whatever Britain decided to do.

On the other hand, Britain might have also been free to concentrate on their colonies in east and south Asia, and the U.S. also had interests in the region. A combined Anglo-American alliance in East Asia might have kept Japan in check, if neither the US or Britain had to worry about war with Germany. We could have used all of our forces with Japan, which could not have joined the Axis if Germany had a peace treaty with Britain.

Of course, all of it would depend on whether Hitler would actually honor such a treaty. He probably wouldn't have.

 

[England my lionheart]

But if you got rid of slavery and imperialism, would England even have any history left worth celebrating?

Same goes for any country really,next thing you know they'll be wanting to knock down the statue of Rameses ll.

 

[Secret Chief]

But if you got rid of slavery and imperialism, would England even have any history left worth celebrating?

Look if we can't celebrate slavery and imperialism we would only be left with the 1966 football World Cup. At least that was before the Common Market fasist dictatorship made teams have lazy coloured players in them. Bring back the Monarchy! You couldn't make it up, political corectness gone mad etc etc

 

[Augustus]

Are you actually argueing that neither the US nor the USSR had anything to do with the Allied victory against the Axis?

What an odd thing to say based on what I wrote. Come on, you're better than such a fantastical misrepresentation.

Do you agree it wouldn't have been all that great for Europe had the war ended in 1940 or 41 with a British surrender and a Nazi victory? (i.e. before America joined the war and before the ending of the Molotov-von Ribbentrop Pact between the Nazis and the Soviets)

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Same goes for any country really,next thing you know they'll be wanting to knock down the statue of Rameses ll.

While there are shameful things in my country's history, I could come up with many things from it worth celebrating. Could you do the same for England?

The reason we keep Egyptian artifacts isn't because we're trying to honour the people depicted.

 

[England my lionheart]

Perhaps that supports my view that it is best not to have public statues.


"This organisation campaigned mainly on equal rights for women, but under Fawcett also supported other causes such as the abolition of the slave trade, and forming a relief fund for South African women and children during the Boer war.

In 1901, there was growing outrage against the use of ‘scorched earth’ tactics against the Boer civilian population. As part of an investigation, Fawcett was asked to visit South Africa and report on conditions in the concentration camps. Her report confirmed early warnings that many were dying needlessly in the camps, though the official government version attributed the deaths to other factors."

Millicent Fawcett |

I see no problem with statues,it's just history,most cities have them and some are magnificent,I think people have gone overboard with this.

 

[England my lionheart]

While there are shameful things in my country's history, I could come up with many things from it worth celebrating. Could you do the same for England?

The reason we keep Egyptian artifacts isn't because we're trying to honour the people depicted.

Sure,language,literature,arts,science,there's a few to get on with.

I think a simple plaque on the statues explaining what that person did in life good or bad is enough.

 

[Augustus]

While there are shameful things in my country's history, I could come up with many things from it worth celebrating. Could you do the same for England?

Maple Syrup, Mounties, the dude who sang 'Informer'

Pretty sure Britain has you covered on this one

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I see no problem with statues,it's just history,most cities have them and some are magnificent,I think people have gone overboard with this.

Out of curiosity: why don't you see a problem with the statues?

Is it that you think that people like Edward Colston and Winston Churchill are worth honouring, or is it that you agree they were bad people but - for whatever reason - you don't want to remove statues once they've been installed?

Or another way of putting it: say that Churchill and Colston had never gotten their statues and someone put forward a plan to design, build and installl these statues now. Would you support this plan?

 

[England my lionheart]

Out of curiosity: why don't you see a problem with the statues?

Is it that you think that people like Edward Colston and Winston Churchill are worth honouring, or is it that you agree they were bad people but - for whatever reason - you don't want to remove statues once they've been installed?

Or another way of putting it: say that Churchill and Colston had never gotten their statues and someone put forward a plan to design, build and installl these statues now. Would you support this plan?

I wouldn't support a statue for colston no but I would for Churchill,same for Nelson,Boudicca,these are all important parts of our history and see no harm in them.