Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
You took the words right out of my mouth or fingers.
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pope made homophobic slur
- Thread starter Eddi
- Start date
He's also an elderly man speaking his second language.
It looks to me more as though some rabidly pro-LGBT people are using this as a stick to beat him with completely unnecessarily.
I think I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt but think he should issue some clarification
Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
As you may know, I am Roman Catholic. I chose the Roman Catholic Church because its disciplines bring out the best in me and work for me. I don't agree with it 100 percent but I am willing to give it the benefit of the doubt where I have questions. Anyway, my point is this: Just because I don't personally go along with same sex marriage and all that, doesn't mean that I would vote that way. My point is that I do not want the STATE mandating to me how I am supposed to apply something in my own moral life. That's between God and me, and frankly, no one else. For instance, I am a widow who lost my husband nearly four years ago. I personally have chosen not to have sex outside of marriage, but that's a personal choice FOR ME, not for anyone else.
Hey, I had to get ready this morning for a doctor's appointment and it took me quite a while! LOL but whatever. It's me., my choice, etc.
That's an awfully loaded way of describing some of the mildest criticism of the Pope, which is a harsh contrast to the minimization of his stances on gay marriage and other lgbt issues.
He lobbies the Catholic world to oppose the main demands of LGBT people - but how dare we be upset that he said a slur?
Yes, because anyone who knows anything about Francis is aware that he's been the most inclusive Pope yet and it is entirely out of character for him to say something like this.
But let's not notice any of that nuance of character.
Of course he is not exactly pro-LGBT, he is a Roman Catholic Pope. I get some of you guys aren't going to be happy until everyone can do whatever they want sexually, but very few people in the real world believe that. Stop expecting them to change according to a minority.
I only despise the teachings that hurt people.
If I thought you were receptive to having your mind changed, I might do more than just vent.
FYI:
Ad hom: you're a bad person, therefore you're wrong.
Not an ad hom: you're a bad person. Also, you're wrong.
I didn't call you a homophobe. I said that some Church teachings are homophobic, then you said you agree with those teachings.
Homophobia is right on topic in a thread about how the head of a homophobic church said homophobic things.
If you don't want to hear voices that disagree with you, Same Faith Debates, the DIRs, and the private forums might be better places for you.
No, I don't want to hear voices accusing the Church of homophobia.
That assumes your moral views are the proper moral views and no institution may vary and if they do they must be xyz and this xyz name = bad.
You have a name you use to call people who disagree with your views.
I want you to stop doing that, where you understand what these views have been for thousands of years and what their basis is.
Anyone who knows anything about Popes know that this is a low bar.
'Stop expecting them to change' is an easy stance to for you to take when they oppose my rights but not yours.
Good day.
Unless you are part of the RCC, the Pope's views and RCC doctrine have nil effect on you at all.
Alien826
No religious beliefs
Just to add another thought, he was in a closed meeting and could have considered himself "among friends" so to speak, and therefore comfortable allowing his true feelings to show.
Obviously all this is "maybe" stuff, I can't read his mind.
The teachings of the RCC have a considerable influence on public policy as a great many people who have power and influence follow it
Not really. If someone wants to argue why hating LGBTQ people is a morally good thing, they're welcome to try.
Calling out homophobia for what it is only implies a moral position if we're taking it as given that homophobia is bad. Since you seem to be responding to the word that way, I'll congratulate you on taking your first step.
Oh, I understand it. The basis for a lot of religious homophobia is misogyny when it comes right down to it.
When women are seen as less than men, a man "lowering himself" by "taking the role of a woman" or a woman "rising above her station" by "taking the role of a man" are incompatible with the social order.
Marriage is traditionally a breeding arrangement - hence the traditional rule prohibiting sex outside of marriage - and same-sex couples can't have kids of their own without help.
Marriage is also traditionally an ownership transaction, and in a context where men are the owners and women are the property, same-sex marriages don't make sense.
Same-sex marriage only works in a paradigm that has room for marriage as a partnership of equals. Many traditional religious paradigms don't have room for this.
I look forward to the day when this will be true.
I think that's another possibility, although I suspect that even in a closed meeting, he would probably be aware of the potential PR issues from having a slur reported by anyone who attended the meeting. Surely he would be aware that his status as the pope would put him under a magnifying glass and speak accordingly.
Well, that's better. As a gay man myself, I must say it, Pope Francis has been a better friend to our community than any of predecessors. This must be extraordinarily difficult for him, given the role that he must play, and the conservative forces in the curia that despise much of what he has been trying to do. We shall not see his like again in my lifetime.
Yes, clarification would be nice, but I don't need it so badly that I'd wish on him the pain of trying to satisfy all sides at once, where there is much intractability on all of those sides (yes, including strident LGBTQ+'s).
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Yes, I said you understand.
But you seem to believe that using words like this are in any way useful. When you use them, you are implicating that the belief is in itself wrong, despite your understanding of their reasons for it.
You can disagree with those reasons, but calling them slurs and derogatory names indicating a deficiency in their morality is not making you look any better than how you see them.
People are allowed to have different beliefs without those beliefs being undermined by people calling them 'phobe' just because they think their morality is bad.
I don't have a derogatory term for people who approve same-sex marriages; I just call them 'woke', which is a term they gave themselves.
Welcome to that day.
I can tell you that where I am the RCC has absolutely no say in my life whatsoever. So maybe it's your own apparent obsession with the RCC that is the problem.
I haven't found this at all.
Alien826
No religious beliefs
Be careful. Historically, the Catholic church has had a huge effect on laws passed in countries where they hold power. And these laws apply to everyone, not just Catholics. And don't say that's all changed. The SCOTUS now has 6 Catholics out of the 9 justices. And look what they did to reproductive rights. For everyone.
An interesting (true) story. Way back, it's very different now I believe, I knew an Irishman who lived and worked in London. Whenever he went to Ireland, he would take as many condoms as he could, to sell at a huge profit. They were virtually unavailable in Ireland.