Pope states condoms aren't the answer to HIV

[darkendless]

Too right! The free condom campaign is failure, Why are they not going for the A that works? I refer you to Dr. Green's findings and the Ugandan Abstinence campaign, our faith works and you will find that out when you leave this earthly passage, God's Salvation plan does not need any changes because is perfect, it will always result in eternal life in God's kingdom, God doe"s not need your advise. He says the word and is done. no sincere repented sinner will be turn away.

Haha, now we know why Africa will continue to suffer, its because of such rediculous beliefs and stubborn ways of outdated Church people.

Those who push abstinence need to get their head out of the sand because its honestly a joke. Your faith doesn't work and there is no God to these people. So maybe try a plan devised by humans and not a bunch of old prudes that have lost touch with humanity?

 

[emiliano]

Actually, looking at the Ugandan experience shows very much the opposite. HIV transmission rates have skyrocketed since the implementation of Uganda's abstinence-only programs

Simply incorrect, studies show that that the trend went back up only after the Condom lobby got into the Ugandan plan, the reason for it has been put in part to incorrect usage, the responsibility fall on the distributor, they must educate their consumers, the Church teaches Abstinence and is are busy area of education, thus they insist that their members attend their religious services. Ever since they were offered a way to continue in their risky practices they went on in their merry ways, the result was they don't use them correctly and there are more infections than when there was with the abstinence, chastity and fidelity plan.

I have had a lot of premarital sex, and have greatly enjoyed every bit of it. Also, I have never been harmed by that experience, specifically because of the education that you are calling rubbish. I knew about condoms and the pill, and I have used both numerous times with a 100% success rate so far. In fact, the success rate with these "risky sexual practices" is nearly 99.9% for everyone who uses them. Compare this to unprotected sex, which is more likely to happen with abstinence only education.

You were very lucky indeed. and so was I ( in my days we didn't even hear the word AIDS)and that is why I am so grateful to God and the Church, I repented and change I do not counsel anybody to take the risk that I did, and to you I say practice marital fidelity, don't take risks

 

[LuisDantas]

Once again I agree with you logician.....An informed public can make their own decision based on what they feel is right....Why should any religious make a statement of such a personal nature.....Or keep it within their own denomination and not make a media circus out of it......

Actually, religious people should make statements about matters of religious weight, definitely including AIDS spreading.

What they should definitely not do is use doctrine as an excuse for destructive behavior and stances.

 

[LuisDantas]

What do you recon? The church is none the poorer for it, IMO the RCC is one of the Churches that have stated the course, it continues been the strongest pillar of Christianity.

This is SO wrong that is becomes funny and then crosses the line AGAIN and becomes not funny at all.

 

[Mister Emu]

Haha, now we know why Africa will continue to suffer, its because of such rediculous beliefs and stubborn ways of outdated Church people.

Those who push abstinence need to get their head out of the sand because its honestly a joke. Your faith doesn't work and there is no God to these people. So maybe try a plan devised by humans and not a bunch of old prudes that have lost touch with humanity?

Take your own advice, condoms have failed as a strategy to curb the AIDS epidemic, the longer no changes are made, the longer the suffering continues...

Condoms do have a part in a successful strategy... just not the primary...

 

[challupa]

Too right! The free condom campaign is failure, Why are they not going for the A that works? I refer you to Dr. Green's findings and the Ugandan Abstinence campaign, our faith works and you will find that out when you leave this earthly passage, God's Salvation plan does not need any changes because is perfect, it will always result in eternal life in God's kingdom, God doe"s not need your advise. He says the word and is done. no sincere repented sinner will be turn away.

Where does it say that God doesn't want us to use condoms? Where does it say that God wants to regulate our sex lives? Where does it say that God thinks the Roman Catholic Church knows what he wants? Your way is not the only way to interpret what you think God wants. There are many ways and you cannot know if you have it 100% correct. I don't presume to give advise to God, and I don't presume to say I know what s/he wants to the exclusion of any other interpretation or way so why do religions do that?

 

[emiliano]

Once again I agree with you logician.....An informed public can make their own decision based on what they feel is right....Why should any religious make a statement of such a personal nature.....Or keep it within their own denomination and not make a media circus out of it......

OH God another one, The topic for discussion is HIV not birth control, abstinence is recommended as the best strategy to slow down the spreading of this virus, if you are infected don't have sex, don't have sex with HIV infected people, if you are in a marriage don't sleep around, if your partner falls pray of it and you forgive or is due to other reason continue in your marriage in agape love, chastity and fidelity, Repent and atone for your sins.
This is why I've been saying "the massage of the Pope is for Christians not you lot!" If a person cannot rule his/hers flesh desires they cannot be Christian and remind reprobates. It is you lot that are going on saying that the Pope is killing people, condemning people to death, what he is doing is his duty of care to Christianity, follow his counsel and you have nothing to fear.

 

[darkendless]

Take your own advice, condoms have failed as a strategy to curb the AIDS epidemic, the longer no changes are made, the longer the suffering continues...

Condoms do have a part in a successful strategy... just not the primary...

Condoms were never the strategy when major Aid organisations over there are Christian based. Condoms simply are not avaliable.

Condoms are the primary solution. Give them out now and then the religious nutters can work on their preaching.

 

[Mister Emu]

Condoms were never the strategy when major Aid organisations over there are Christian based. Condoms simply are not avaliable.

Condoms are the primary solution. Give them out now and then the religious nutters can work on their preaching.

What are you talking about? Africa has been flooded with condoms, billions of them a year...

They aren't the primary solution, it has been tried, and it has failed... the only successful programs for preventing the spread of AIDS have focused on abstinence, faithfulness, and then condoms...

 

[darkendless]

What are you talking about? Africa has been flooded with condoms, billions of them a year...

They aren't the primary solution, it has been tried, and it has failed... the only successful programs for preventing the spread of AIDS have focused on abstinence, faithfulness, and then condoms...

I'm sure it is. I wonder how many get to where they're needed?

If condoms dont work then the chances of Abstinence working are less than 1%. I think its been proven that people don't care what the church says. I think people need to be educated about the benefits of condoms rather than the benefits of no sex.

 

[rojse]

What are you talking about? Africa has been flooded with condoms, billions of them a year...

And coupled with Bush's policies of only funding educational programs that only encouraged abstinence, rather than the use of condoms.

Another epic fail by Bush in that regard.

 

[logician]

Dodge and weave, dodge and weave.

 

[emiliano]

Where does it say that God doesn't want us to use condoms?

Well you put in a spot here, I suggest that you read the Bible or have a talk with a minister. I have done some preaching but is always been to people that have read it so unless you get some knowledge. I my damage you more than you already are. a tip for a short cut to it is to read the Epistles and pay special attention to Saint's Paul. That wrote under inspiration a manual for Christian living.

Where does it say that God wants to regulate our sex lives?

You’ll find the answer in John Chapter 21 verses 16 and 17. Read and tell me, what do you think it says? The Pope’s duty of care to Christian is to give them (feed them) the way out of sin and strengthen them in temptation, Abstinence is 100% effective, seek God and His kingdom before all else. This is in the Bible as well.

Where does it say that God thinks the Roman Catholic Church knows what he wants?

Your way is not the only way to interpret what you think God wants. There are many ways and you cannot know if you have it 100% correct. I don't presume to give advise to God, and I don't presume to say I know what s/he wants to the exclusion of any other interpretation or way so why do religions do that?

This is the Pope’s duty of care to his flock as a servant of God, this is his calling, he did not address his message to you, he did not interpreted anything to you, You can do whatever you like, just don’t expect God’s servant to join you. He does not propose the closure of condoms manufacturing, he does not propose the banning of the free condom campaign, so really why are you afraid of this virus and the fact that some people opted for abstinence? Do you expect to get lucky anytime soon?

 

[emiliano]

Condoms were never the strategy when major Aid organisations over there are Christian based. Condoms simply are not available.

Condoms are the primary solution. Give them out now and then the religious nutters can work on their preaching.

Well get of your backside and give money to the free condom brigade, if they are the primary solution get on with it and stop whining about what the Pope counsel his people, get some research done, find out why was that as soon as the condom lobbyist got into Uganda a successful campaign went backwards improve condoms production quality assurances educate those that receive your condoms (there won't be many Christians doing that), be responsible for crying out loud.

 

[emiliano]

I'm sure it is. I wonder how many get to where they're needed?

If condoms don't work then the chances of Abstinence working are less than 1%. I think its been proven that people don't care what the church says. I think people need to be educated about the benefits of condoms rather than the benefits of no sex.

That will be you, there are many people that have a capacity to self-control, the fact you can't control yourself does not mean that everybody is like you, it is an acquired skill with application on many areas of our lives, not everybody is unable to live as a rational being, only human that act like animals do, they can't reason the consequences of participating in risky situation, they act on instincts, avoidance of risky sexual practices is a good skill to develops it need reasoning though.

 

[darkendless]

Well get of your backside and give money to the free condom brigade, if they are the primary solution get on with it and stop whining about what the Pope counsel his people, get some research done, find out why was that as soon as the condom lobbyist got into Uganda a successful campaign went backwards improve condoms production quality assurances educate those that receive your condoms (there won't be many Christians doing that), be responsible for crying out loud.

Well the next generation of Africans are screwed because they've been taught that sex is bad (but theyll do it anyway because they're young and human). I am responsible, i donate, but my influence is limited. I cant exactly drop what im doing and go over there. Even then, they've been brainwashed by silly Christians warning them of hellfire and all that garbage so they're probably confused.

YOUR organisation needs to be responsible for these people and teach them the truth, not one sided religiously charged BS!!!!!!!!!!!!! Abstinence only is as rediculous and pathetic as people who think the whole world can do this. Teenagers can and will have sex. They need to be protected and educated about their choices. Not about what God says. The Pope needs to back what is possible to achieve within reason. Thats why the world is angry, because he's promoting a solution that failed.

 

[emiliano]

Darkenless,
Let reason this one outyou say:

Well the next generation of Africans are screwed because they've been taught that sex is bad (but theyll do it anyway because they're young and human).

You are telling falsehood here, What Africans have been counseled is that having sex while infected with HIV is bad that a person can infect a loved one and that condoms are not 100% effective and that abstinence is, all human are rational, right? So when they are educated in the dangers of this STD they want to prevent this from happening to them and spreading it, as rational being they want a 100% assurance, right? So it is precisely because they are young and humans that abstinence is the way to go.

I am responsible, i donate, but my influence is limited. I cant exactly drop what im doing and go over there. Even then, they've been brainwashed by silly Christians warning them of hellfire and all that garbage so they're probably confused.

Look in Uganda they had a successful program right to the day that the free condoms mob got in with an alternative. Why is it so? You seem very confused to me, what could be the cause of that? Abstinence is possible and 1oo% effective, you won't catch HIV if you have a partner that is faithful and HIV free.

YOUR organisation needs to be responsible for these people and teach them the truth, not one sided religiously charged BS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That’s what they do; they teach abstinence that is 100% effective in saving body and soul, you and your lot propose a failed/ineffective strategy

Abstinence only is as rediculous and pathetic as people who think the whole world can do this.

Not the whole world just Christians, the message ain’t for you, if you can’t control your urges even when you know that you are taking risks, there is no hope to teach you abstinence. If you get infected, tough, own up to your responsibility and don’t spread it.

Teenagers can and will have sex. They need to be protected and educated about their choices.

They need to be educated in abstinence, to wait they till they get married, to get to know their intended spouse their morals and that they don’t have multiple sexual partners, just you.

Not about what God says. The Pope needs to back what is possible to achieve within reason.

That what they are telling Abstinence is a achievable, keep in your pant, wait till marriage find someone that does not sleep around.

Thats why the world is angry, because he's promoting a solution that failed.

You have been told enough times, the free condoms solution failed, it failed in Uganda it made thing worst.

 

[Imagist]

Simply incorrect, studies show that that the trend went back up only after the Condom lobby got into the Ugandan plan, the reason for it has been put in part to incorrect usage, the responsibility fall on the distributor, they must educate their consumers, the Church teaches Abstinence and is are busy area of education, thus they insist that their members attend their religious services. Ever since they were offered a way to continue in their risky practices they went on in their merry ways, the result was they don't use them correctly and there are more infections than when there was with the abstinence, chastity and fidelity plan.

I've heard this bit of rhetoric before. Yes, pro-condom lobbyists started lobbying on the topic about the same time that the HIV transmission rate rose. However, this is not a causal relationship: the pro-condom lobbyists were ignored. In fact, the reason the pro-condom lobbyists started lobbying on the topic of Uganda was that the Ugandan government had begun to implement the Bush-funded abstinence-only program.

You were very lucky indeed. and so was I ( in my days we didn't even hear the word AIDS)and that is why I am so grateful to God and the Church, I repented and change I do not counsel anybody to take the risk that I did, and to you I say practice marital fidelity, don't take risks

You have a better chance of dying in an auto accident than you do of contracting HIV when correctly using a condom. If you really believe that protected sex is such a risky behavior that people shouldn't do it, then I suggest you get your priorities straight and start teaching people about the real danger: cars!

 

[Imagist]

What are you talking about? Africa has been flooded with condoms, billions of them a year...

They aren't the primary solution, it has been tried, and it has failed... the only successful programs for preventing the spread of AIDS have focused on abstinence, faithfulness, and then condoms...

Where exactly have these successes occurred?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Mister Emu (or others who feel like responding):

I've been thinking about a point that was raised by you and others in the thread:

I ask this every time... What does it matter? Pope says do not fornicate, have one partner, or abstain. No one listens. Pope says do not use condoms. Everybody listens? Its obvious the Pope's influence is in question...

I don't know about you, but I can't think of a single Catholic I know who follows all the Church's teachings on every issue. In my experience, all Catholics pick-and-choose to a degree: some have no problem skipping Mass and confession, but think it's vitally important that they baptize their children. Some consider artificial birth control to be acceptable in marriage, but consider premarital sex to be wrong. Others are opposed to abortion, but are okay with in-vitro fertilization. Some don't do any sort of penance on Fridays during the year, but will give up things for Lent.

Frankly, it seems like it's a general rule that Church teachings will be followed widely, but not universally, among its members. I don't see why the Pope wouldn't expect this general trend to continue when it comes to the Church's teachings on sex: just like some Catholics will go to Mass but not confession, some Catholics will follow the Church's teachings on contraception but not pre- or extra-marital sex.