Pornography poll

[Alceste]

Evidently you see sexual exploitation in the porno industry as a coercive relationship. If that's so, then I agree that it has no place in the business, or any business for that matter. I also agree that if the relationship between a porn actor and the powers that be are mutually agreeable then porn is a proper business.

Yes, prostitution in general is a consequence of economic coercion. Also, according to an interview with a porn star (and other sources) virtually all women in porn are adult survivors of childhood sexual abuse. They're messed up, basically, and porn perpetuates the cycle of sexual exploitation that they have experienced since childhood.

There are exceptions to the rule, of course, like genuine amateur couples and porn created by and for women, but the majority of available porn is women who were messed up by childhood abuse being sexually exploited on camera because they can't think of any other way to make a decent living.

 

[Skwim]

Yes, prostitution in general is a consequence of economic coercion. Also, according to an interview with a porn star (and other sources) virtually all women in porn are adult survivors of childhood sexual abuse. They're messed up, basically, and porn perpetuates the cycle of sexual exploitation that they have experienced since childhood.

So, would you agree that someone who was physically abused in childhood and later became a boxer was being abusively exploited?

There are exceptions to the rule, of course, like genuine amateur couples and porn created by and for women, but the majority of available porn is women who were messed up by childhood abuse being sexually exploited on camera because they can't think of any other way to make a decent living.

Your implication here is that if someone was sexually abused in childhood they couldn't be one of the exceptions you talk about: those who are into porn because they honestly like the work, and would never consider themselves exploited. And even if someone who was sexually abused in childhood can't think of any other way to make a decent living, why would the relationship between them and the employing agencies be necessarily exploitative? Point is, don't jump to conclusions about a person's reasons for doing anything, particularly where that thing has a undesirable counterpart in the past. So while there may be a cause/effect operation at work between past sexual abuse and entering into a sex business for some people, it may not be exploitative at all, but rather a fortuitous one. Not everyone regards porno work as dirty or demeaning. Just as not everyone likes what they do for a living, but scrub toilets anyway because they need to put food one the table.

 

[Me Myself]

No, pronography itself does not exploit women.

(not to say there is men on men pornography, which I ve never heard it supposedly "exploits men" )

 

[Gjallarhorn]

Seeing as the kind of stuff I watch rarely involves women, I can say that it does not exploit women.

 

[ChristineES]

This isn't a "all or nothing" type of thing. As I said earlier, porn doesn't always exploit women, but it certainly can. Some women see it as a way to get money- they know that men pay for it and other women as well. They don't necessarily want to do it, but they do get desperate sometimes. I could say that men will do the same thing- I mean, they are well "endowed" and need some extra cash or they want to break into the movies or something, same as women. So wouldn't some men be exploited as well?

 

[Octavia156]

Its nothing to do with Women.

I'm concerned only about the negative affect it has on young people who gain access to it too early.

 

[Alceste]

So, would you agree that someone who was physically abused in childhood and later became a boxer was being abusively exploited?

Your implication here is that if someone was sexually abused in childhood they couldn't be one of the exceptions you talk about: those who are into porn because they honestly like the work, and would never consider themselves exploited. And even if someone who was sexually abused in childhood can't think of any other way to make a decent living, why would the relationship between them and the employing agencies be necessarily exploitative? Point is, don't jump to conclusions about a person's reasons for doing anything, particularly where that thing has a undesirable counterpart in the past. So while there may be a cause/effect operation at work between past sexual abuse and entering into a sex business for some people, it may not be exploitative at all, but rather a fortuitous one. Not everyone regards porno work as dirty or demeaning. Just as not everyone likes what they do for a living, but scrub toilets anyway because they need to put food one the table.

I believe people can be willing to do the work and still exploited. The rugs I saw in Morocco, for example, were mostly created by child labour. The kids often lose their eyesight because of this work and are paid next to nothing. African kids in gold mines extract gold flakes by rubbing mercury between their bare hands. No doubt some of these kids - if not most - are happy to have the work. Just as Chinese factory workers are often happy to have the work, even when they're chained to their sewing machines.

Consenting to your own exploitation doesn't negate the fact that an industry is generally exploitative.

 

[Alceste]

Oh, yeah, and I do think men are also exploited sometimes, but I don't know anything about boxing out the background of boxers in general. My own brother is into boxing and marital arts competitions and was not abused. I don't know anybody who is into making pornos, and I've been around. I know one prostitute, and she was abused.

 

[freethinker44]

I believe people can be willing to do the work and still exploited. The rugs I saw in Morocco, for example, were mostly created by child labour. The kids often lose their eyesight because of this work and are paid next to nothing. African kids in gold mines extract gold flakes by rubbing mercury between their bare hands. No doubt some of these kids - if not most - are happy to have the work. Just as Chinese factory workers are often happy to have the work, even when they're chained to their sewing machines.

Consenting to your own exploitation doesn't negate the fact that an industry is generally exploitative.

What industry doesn't exploit its workers in some way?

 

[Alceste]

What industry doesn't exploit its workers in some way?

It's a matter of degree. I hope you're not arguing the situation with the African children and the mercury is OK because exploitation exists elsewhere too?

 

[freethinker44]

It's a matter of degree. I hope you're not arguing the situation with the African children and the mercury is OK because exploitation exists elsewhere too?

Not at all, are you arguing that exploitation in porn is comparable to children going blind to make rugs?

 

[Father Heathen]

Regarding the notion of porn being exploitative and/or degrading, that depends on the specific material, subject matter, who is producing it, how it's being produced, etc.
For example, a loving couple who share an exhibitionist kink could film themselves having sex and distribute it, and that would be classified as porn, but would that particular footage necessarily be considered degrading or exploitative?

The nature of the industry and culture surrounding mainstream pornography is arguably exploitative and degrading. However, porn in and of itself might not necessarily be so. In the end, as long as all of those involved are consenting adults, it shouldn't be illegal.

 

[Alceste]

Not at all, are you arguing that exploitation in porn is comparable to children going blind to make rugs?

In some cases, yes. Porn is physically very punishing work, and can really in permanent physical damage. Also, there is an extremely high risk of contracting an STD, as most of the time condoms aren't used.

 

[Alceste]

Regarding the notion of porn being exploitative and/or degrading, that depends on the specific material, subject matter, who is producing it, how it's being produced, etc.
For example, a loving couple who share an exhibitionist kink could film themselves having sex and distribute it, and that would be classified as porn, but would that particular footage necessarily be considered degrading or exploitative?

The nature of the industry and culture surrounding mainstream pornography is arguably exploitative and degrading. However, porn in and of itself might not necessarily be so. In the end, as long as all of those involved are consenting adults, it shouldn't be illegal.

Yeah, genuine amateur videos produced by couples were one of the exceptions I was thinking of. Likewise, there are adult gold miners who are well paid and enjoy high standards of workplace safety. They're just in the minority.

 

[Father Heathen]

Yeah, genuine amateur videos produced by couples were one of the exceptions I was thinking of. Likewise, there are adult gold miners who are well paid and enjoy high standards of workplace safety. They're just in the minority.

Thus the issue is not imagery of sex and nudity in and of itself, but rather the culture and industry surrounding it.

 

[freethinker44]

Thus the issue is not imagery of sex and nudity in and of itself, but rather the culture and industry surrounding it.

I would argue that the negative effects of porn are not even the result of exploitation, but the stigma placed on porn, or sex more specifically, by society. It would be better to have it out in the open where it could be well regulated just like any other business.

 

[roger1440]

I know pornography has been thoroughly discussed here, but I was thinking about something and I wanted to see how the numbers added up.

Basically the question is: Assuming banning porn would stop distribution and prevent access to it, do you think pornography should be banned? If so, is it because or partially because it exploits women?

Are you referring to the "women" in the pornographic material or "women" in general?

 

[Skwim]

I believe people can be willing to do the work and still exploited. The rugs I saw in Morocco, for example, were mostly created by child labour. The kids often lose their eyesight because of this work and are paid next to nothing. African kids in gold mines extract gold flakes by rubbing mercury between their bare hands.

So you see these children as willing workers? That is, they really want to do the work?

No doubt some of these kids - if not most - are happy to have the work. Just as Chinese factory workers are often happy to have the work, even when they're chained to their sewing machines.

Then in what sense do you regard them as being exploited?

Consenting to your own exploitation doesn't negate the fact that an industry is generally exploitative.

You seem to be equivocating with the word "exploit." In one sense you use it as a "happily" agreed upon working arrangement, and in another sense a working arrangement where one party takes an unfair advantage of the other---one party being far from happy about the arrangement.

In some cases, yes. Porn is physically very punishing work, and can really in permanent physical damage. Also, there is an extremely high risk of contracting an STD, as most of the time condoms aren't used.

Firefighting is also a high risk occupation---very high risk. As is lumber jacking. So what is your point? Unlike many child labor situations, those in legitimate porn can walk away from the business.

Thus the issue is not imagery of sex and nudity in and of itself, but rather the culture and industry surrounding it.

So what's the bad side of this issue?

I would argue that the negative effects of porn are not even the result of exploitation, but the stigma placed on porn, or sex more specifically, by society. It would be better to have it out in the open where it could be well regulated just like any other business.

Who says it isn't out in the open and not "well regulated" (whatever that implies)? Just what kind of regulations do you see as missing? And remember, we're talking about ligitimate porn here, not child porn or coerced porn.

 

[Revoltingest]

Woo hoo! Porn is winning!
I especially like that so many support it despite their belief that it exploits women.....or perhaps because it exploits women.

 

[freethinker44]

Who says it isn't out in the open and not "well regulated" (whatever that implies)? Just what kind of regulations do you see as missing? And remember, we're talking about ligitimate porn here, not child porn or coerced porn.

The laws regarding pornography only regulate distribution of it, and even then they barely regulate that. There are no regulations dealing with safety or health of performers. Those that do require condom use and health screenings do so of their own free will. Even the recent condom law in LA wasn't designed to regulate porn, it was designed to drive them out of the city.