Pornography. What's wrong with it?

[idea]

... your disrespect to SAHMS is noted.

Thank you Songbird! I'm a stay-at-home mom too - the hand that rocks the cradle rules the world.

If you could name 10 people who had the most influence in your life, who would they be? #1 on my list is my mom.
How many Nobel prize winners can you name? How many Olympic athletes? How many millionaires? billionaires? Does earning money give you a place in history, earn you respect, put you on the "top 10" list? win a Nobel Prize and people will forget you, win the Olympics and people will forget you - become a mom, and your influence will live on for generations.

from Jamie's bio: Jamie Turner About Me Page at Helium

she looked up at me and asked “When you were little what did you want to be?” I told her that when I was her age, I wanted to be an astronaut. She thought about my answer for awhile, and then she asked, “What happened?” In reply, I looked her straight in the eye, and told her I did something better. I had her.

y now you have probably guessed what my current job is. My current job is a mother. Out of all my accomplishments, my three children are my crowning jewels. Harold B. Lee once said “The [greatest] work you will ever do will be within the walls of your own home”. I have found this to be true. The noblest endeavor of all mankind rests in solving today’s problems in order to create a better future for the children who are now in our midst. Forthcoming advances in medical fields, energy fields, science, and engineering are utterly worthless without the people they are designed to serve. Everything depends on the work which is now underway within homes all over the world. I am overjoyed and ever so grateful to be a part of the greatest work which ever was: the work of Motherhood.

I guess some people are not parents and don't "get it"...

so sad when people objectify women into mere "eye candy"... I guess that is the big problem I have porn - it enforces the idea (for women and men) that value lies on the surface - that we are skin deep... people who wear modest cloths etc. etc. are making a statement "who I am is not what I look like" - value does not come from superficial, short-lived youthful appearances... nor does it come from fancy degrees... value comes through real love / respect / sacrifice for one another - like the sacrifice of some parents for their children, and the sacrifice of spouses for one another.

 

[Sunstone]

Porn stars can't be good mothers? Since when?

 

[ninerbuff]

Thank you Songbird! I'm a stay-at-home mom too - the hand that rocks the cradle rules the world.

Stay at home dad and I don't stress out like many of the SAHM I see daily.

I guess some people are not parents and don't "get it"...

Well they don't "get" what you want them to.

 

[Songbird]

The thing is, my respect for people is built on more, much more, than a single characteristic. There are bound to be things in people I don't necessarily like or admire, but this doesn't mean I've lost my respect for them. I'm not that shallow. I can easily respect and hold in high regard people who have what I consider shortcomings or faults. I recognize that people aren't perfect, and don't fool myself that they need to be. The only people I don't respect are those who have proven they don't merit it, and SAHMs don't come close to qualifying for my disrespect.

But go ahead and take umbrage, affront, offense, and whatever else strikes you. I know where I stand, and I do it in comfort and with a clear conscience. So let's get back to porno and how we can improve it. K?

You sure know how to take an insult,
and make it worse.

I'm not gunna bother here though.
My responses to this post alone,
would need a whole new thread.

Oh man, I'm done responding. Nice contortions he goes through to defend his porn enjoyment, though.

 

[Darkness]

Porn stars can't be good mothers? Since when?

It's more probability.

 

[waitasec]

It's more probability.

1st off let me state that i am neutral but i will play devils advocate...
why would you say that?

 

[fallingblood]

I guess some people are not parents and don't "get it"...

so sad when people objectify women into mere "eye candy"... I guess that is the big problem I have porn - it enforces the idea (for women and men) that value lies on the surface - that we are skin deep... people who wear modest cloths etc. etc. are making a statement "who I am is not what I look like" - value does not come from superficial, short-lived youthful appearances... nor does it come from fancy degrees... value comes through real love / respect / sacrifice for one another - like the sacrifice of some parents for their children, and the sacrifice of spouses for one another.

A porn star can be a good mother. Until you can provide some statistics to show otherwise, then really you don't have a case.

Porn does not enforce the idea that what values lies on the surface. It has nothing to do with that. It is entertaining a different idea.

One who wears skimpy clothes or like showing off their bodies (this goes for both men and women) are not saying that the only thing that matters is the surface. That is a barbaric idea that needs to be abandoned. Some people are simply proud of how they look. That doesn't mean that is the only thing they are proud about. But they like feeling beautiful, or attractive, and it helps their self-esteem. There is nothing wrong with that.

Just because you choose a life-style, that does not mean it is the only one that is acceptable. It doesn't mean that only people like you are going to be good parents, or have the right values. Fancy degrees, and youthful appearance, is just fine, and really, it can help various people. There is no reason to put those down.

 

[Darkness]

1st off let me state that i am neutral but i will play devils advocate...
why would you say that?

It is closed-course, circular reasoning; I admit. Since I believe that pornography itself is a problem in our society, it follows that I believe those who advocate for it, will most likely not teach their children the best morals; thus, they will not make the best parents.

One who wears skimpy clothes or like showing off their bodies (this goes for both men and women) are not saying that the only thing that matters is the surface. That is a barbaric idea that needs to be abandoned. Some people are simply proud of how they look. That doesn't mean that is the only thing they are proud about. But they like feeling beautiful, or attractive, and it helps their self-esteem. There is nothing wrong with that.

I love the quote from Crazy Stupid Love: "Women lost the battle of the sexes when they started pole dancing for exercise." I am not against expressions of sexuality. I simply fail to see how crawling on a stage to pick up dollar bills is empowering.

 

[McBell]

It is closed-course, circular reasoning; I admit. Since I believe that pornography itself is a problem in our society, it follows that I believe those who advocate for it, will most likely not teach their children the best morals; thus, they will not make the best parents.

What I do not understand is why so many people blame pornography.

It is like saying that it was not me who caused that house to burn down, it was the matches.

"best" morals?

 

[Acim]

Can we discuss something other than stay at home MILF's?

 

[Skwim]

What I do not understand is why so many people blame pornography.

Because sex is something they've never felt comfortable with they find it necessary to rationalize this discomfort by demonizing sex, and attacking/blaming pornography is simply one of the easy ways by which they can reinforcer their rationalization.

 

[blackout]

I guess some people are not parents and don't "get it"...

so sad when people objectify women into mere "eye candy"... I guess that is the big problem I have porn - it enforces the idea (for women and men) that value lies on the surface - that we are skin deep... people who wear modest cloths etc. etc. are making a statement "who I am is not what I look like" - value does not come from superficial, short-lived youthful appearances... nor does it come from fancy degrees... value comes through real love / respect / sacrifice for one another - like the sacrifice of some parents for their children, and the sacrifice of spouses for one another.

Porn is about sex. Libido. Fetish.
TBH it is often rather unattractive.
You might be suprised what turns different people on. :areyoucra
(sexually)

Now, Erotica is more of a pornographic 'eye candy' experience.
More about sophistication and beauty,
of both body and psyche. ie, an art form.
(Andrew Blake and such)


Also to clarify,
People who wear 'modest' clothing etc. etc.
could be making many "statements"/no statement at all.
"I'm a functional dresser"
"I don't care (what I look like)"
"I lack confidence"
"I don't have a cosmopolitan fashion sense"
"I just want to be comfortable"
"I don't have money for more stylish and form fitting fashions"
"I don't want people to see me as I am"
"I'm not comfortable with my sexuality/sensuality"
"My religion rules my wardrobe"
"My husband rules my wardrobe"
"My mother rules my wardrobe"
"I'm not comfortable with my body image"
(and thus choose to hide it)
all besides YOUR preferred
" I'm not superficial"
and
" Who I am is not what I look like"
statements.

It's kind of funny actually
that I find your "I'm not superficial" statement
to be very superficial.


EDIT:

As well, I don't really see what "sacrifice" has to do with any of this.

Though I could point out that the fulness of my Womanhood,
and unique nature of my True Self
was sacrificed at the foot of a Roman Catholic altar/alter
for far too many years.
(beginning from childhood.)

Finally embracing the FULNESS of my Womanhood,
of my sensuality and sexuality
has been a long and difficult process.
I had to "cross" and smash many many taboos.
It's been a psycological, personal, and physical liberation.

Now, I may be a skin deep,
superficially selective porn watching
woman of valueless appearances
in your eyes,
yet ("somehow") I continue to "sacrifice" many 'things'
(Including REAL physical intimacy)
because there is presently no other way,
for the sake of my children.

However, I never blatantly CHOOSE Self Sacrifice,
Just for the sake of choosing it,
as if it's some kind of a virtue or "great thing" or something.

Life FORCES us to choose between things,
and my children
(as they are still children)
will always come first in the heart of my decisions.
I put up with a LOT of crap,
and do without things I personally need,
just to keep a roof over their head,
and to keep them well protected,
and as happy and drama free as possible.

Because I love them.
Not because I am being "virtuous".
And certainly not because I feel all of this Self Sacrifice is a GOOD thing.
It's not.
Not at all.
It's simply, right now, what must be done.

Looky.
We can be good mothers too.
amazing.

 

[waitasec]

It is closed-course, circular reasoning; I admit. Since I believe that pornography itself is a problem in our society, it follows that I believe those who advocate for it, will most likely not teach their children the best morals;

what do you mean by that?
do you think children would be exposed to sexual conduct before they are ready to understand what it is...?

i do not think pornography is a problem per se...it's like anything else
drinking, shopping, eating, watching TV, playing video games, sports...
it's an added bonus to ones life...sex is a very normal drive...
what can i say people are weird sometimes...
for instance it's weird that someone would be willing to spend the night in a parking lot before the BIG SALE starts, or going to disneyland in the summer
or drive 20 plus miles to go to work and back. in light of our weirdness watching porn isn't so strange
maybe this is a bit off topic but...
if you look at other countries where porn isn't seen as a taboo you will find a healthy society, sexually speaking (more so than the states).
sweden for instance...it's interesting that in a country where the people who are sexually aware and unashamed of sex you also find less cases of std's and abortion...

I am not against expressions of sexuality. I simply fail to see how crawling on a stage to pick up dollar bills is empowering.

however, she's got a lot of peoples money in her pocket...(figuratively speaking )
people do what they have to for various reasons. as a songwriter, i find myself crawling on my hands and knees in order to appease my clients which i think compromises my art for money...i'm sure their are plenty of business people who do the same by compromising their personal ethical principles to make ends meet...

 

[Darkness]

Because sex is something they've never felt comfortable with they find it necessary to rationalize this discomfort by demonizing sex, and attacking/blaming pornography is simply one of the easy ways by which they can reinforcer their rationalization.

How quaint. You come in here with this statement of statements proudly, like a peacock strutting its feathers. The question is, why do you have to rationalise our disagreement away like that? Is it so hard to believe that people are against pornography and prostitution without being against sexuality in generally?

 

[Darkness]

what do you mean by that?
do you think children would be exposed to sexual conduct before they are ready to understand what it is...?

No, I am for early sex-education. What I meant is this: by virtue of the parents supporting pornography (which is bad) they are in effect teaching their children an ethical system which is bad.

i do not think pornography is a problem per se...it's like anything else
drinking, shopping, eating, watching TV, playing video games, sports...
it's an added bonus to ones life...sex is a very normal drive...
what can i say people are weird sometimes...
for instance it's weird that someone would be willing to spend the night in a parking lot before the BIG SALE starts, or going to disneyland in the summer
or drive 20 plus miles to go to work and back. in light of our weirdness watching porn isn't so strange

It is not a matter of it being weird. Rather, it is a matter of whether it is moral or not. Real people are involved.

maybe this is a bit off topic but...
if you look at other countries where porn isn't seen as a taboo you will find a healthy society, sexually speaking (more so than the states).
sweden for instance...it's interesting that in a country where the people who are sexually aware and unashamed of sex you also find less cases of std's and abortion...

And if you also care to examine Swedish law and society you will find that the majority of them support a law making it illegal to purchase sex, which is explicitly rooted in the feminist idea that prostitution is primarily patriarchal violence against women and children.

however, she's got a lot of peoples money in her pocket...(figuratively speaking )
people do what they have to for various reasons. as a songwriter, i find myself crawling on my hands and knees in order to appease my clients which i think compromises my art for money...i'm sure their are plenty of business people who do the same by compromising their personal ethical principles to make ends meet...

I simply do not agree with the liberal tradition, which says that everything is all right, so long as you get money in return. Sexuality should not be cheapened by money.

And do you actually crawl on your hands and knees or are you just being quaint?

 

[Skwim]

How quaint. You come in here with this statement of statements proudly, like a peacock strutting its feathers. The question is, why do you have to rationalise our disagreement away like that? Is it so hard to believe that people are against pornography and prostitution without being against sexuality in generally?

That was purposely over the top, a stupid generalization as it were, just to see how certain people here would react to such nonsense coming right back at them from the other side of the court. 'tweren't meant for you.

 

[waitasec]

And do you actually crawl on your hands and knees or are you just being quaint?

metaphorically speaking....of course.

 

[waitasec]

It is not a matter of it being weird. Rather, it is a matter of whether it is moral or not. Real people are involved.

yes they are. if the porn someone is enjoying doesn't include violence/or isn't demeaning...
i am absolutely fine with it

And if you also care to examine Swedish law and society you will find that the majority of them support a law making it illegal to purchase sex, which is explicitly rooted in the feminist idea that prostitution is primarily patriarchal violence against women and children.

here's an interesting article...

Protagonist or puritan? The truth about Sweden and porn - The Local

I simply do not agree with the liberal tradition, which says that everything is all right, so long as you get money in return. Sexuality should not be cheapened by money.

if it isn't hurting someone or perpetuates a notion that women or men are to be objectified i don't see a problem with it

 

[Darkness]

That was purposely over the top, a stupid generalization as it were, just to see how certain people here would react to such nonsense coming right back at them from the other side of the court. 'tweren't meant for you.

Duly noted.

yes they are. if the porn someone is enjoying doesn't include violence/or isn't demeaning...
i am absolutely fine with it

What if one of the actors or actresses is in it because they need the money, even though they don't like performing? One of the main problems I have with pornography, as an industry, is that it induces people to put aside their psychology/emotional reservations about it by offering them high profits. You have to realise that I am a ******* socialist-marxist at heart.

here's an interesting article...

Protagonist or puritan? The truth about Sweden and porn - The Local

This article is why I love the Swedes (I may move there after finishing grad school). Since many of them are socialist-feminists, they see no contradiction in viewing the porn industry as wrong, while having a progressive view of mutually enjoyable sexuality.

 

[blackout]

No, I am for early sex-education. What I meant is this: by virtue of the parents supporting pornography (which is bad) they are in effect teaching their children an ethical system which is bad.

How do parents teach their children about things
their children know nothing of?

Parents generally keep the details of their personal sex lives to themselves.
At least, they should.

I'm sure that parents support ALL KINDS of things their children don't understand/know about.
What they do not know/understand, does not in any way mold their idea/s of ethics.