Powerlessness is a lie

[Tmac]

Yes, well, it's difficult to expect much more than this from you.
A world full of cowards is a world without violence and killing. As someone said once, the meek shall inherit the world. So... on second thoughts, thank you for the compliment.

No, a world full of cowards is a world where the biggest coward uses the smaller cowards as shields. And you wear the compliment well.

Meekness is not a weakness.

 

[sayak83]

No, a world full of cowards is a world where the biggest coward uses the smaller cowards as shields. And you wear the compliment well.

Meekness is not a weakness.

Shields from what I wonder? Everybody is a coward remember. No situation of confrontation ever arises.

 

[WalterTrull]

When you say, our need to rationalize, do you mean the concept of the mind?

I mean we always seem to need to create structure for our observations. That's actually very useful for building other observations, it's just that we haven't truly grasped the mechanism involved. Not that I have, but I try to understand it. Sometimes I catch a glimpse, just haven't been able to see the whole enchilada.

 

[blü 2]

The idea of the thread is, powerlessness is a lie and you seem to think that in certain situations the mind/brain shuts down (although I don't think the brain ever shuts down) and the individual is powerless to make a choice

In One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest we were asked to believe that will power and positive thinking are more powerful than lobotomy. They aren't, any more than other particular forms of basic brain damage can be overcome by positive thinking and willpower.

It remains true, of course, that in all such things a positive attitude is likely to lead to a better outcome than the alternative.

And here you're in effect saying that a positive attitude is always available, a given. It isn't. Certain conditions of the brain can prevent access to it, even in individuals who would have sworn they were positive by nature. Depression is real. (Or, real depression is real; we've already mentioned cases where it's an excuse.)

For example, one of the simple but positive steps in ameliorating depression is having the sufferer walk outdoors for an hour a day. People with moderate cases can hear, understand and often, not always, do that; but people down the scale can't, and must be helped, and sometimes can't be helped. You say that's their fault. In the area I'm talking about, it isn't.

 

[blü 2]

I mean we always seem to need to create structure for our observations. That's actually very useful for building other observations, it's just that we haven't truly grasped the mechanism involved. Not that I have, but I try to understand it. Sometimes I catch a glimpse, just haven't been able to see the whole enchilada.

I'm a fan of >Science Daily< for keeping up to date with what science is doing. One of the topics I follow is brain research, one of the truly remarkable voyages of discovery of our time, with a steady acceleration since about the mid-'90s. The 'mind' is a loose but sometimes handy expression for a parcel of particular brain functions; and whether we talk, positively or negatively, about consciousness, instinct, intuition, creativity, analyzing, insight, e-quotient, morality, talent, tendency, brilliance, deficiency, self-control, the whole kit, it's all down to brain function (which of course includes our hormones as well as our neurons).

That seems obvious to me. What else could it be? The only alternative is magic, and so far I have no reason to believe magic occurs outside of imagination.

 

[Pudding]

In less harsh terms its an excuse, we always have a choice. We are always making choices. Even if one is in a situation where opposition in any form results in death, we either choose to endure the situation or accept death. If we choose to endure then we make up words like powerlessness. In most situation, we accept the term because the situation in question is not felt to be that relevant.
Life is, because we choose endure it as, we found it.

Choice 1: Endure the situation.
Choice 2: Accept death.
Choice 3: Don't have to endure the situation nor accept death.

A person don't want to choose choice 1 and 2, he wants to choose choice 3 but was unable to do so, that is powerlessness. Why is his powerlessness to choose choice 3 a lie/excuse?

We don't have the power to: revive dead people; go back to the past to change what has already happen; cure disease which is currently uncurable. Powerlessness exists.

We always have a choice?
We can choose to live forever?
We can choose to revive our deceased loved?
We can choose to revert time and start our life all over?
We can choose to born in a family free of abusive parents?
We can choose our race, blood type and how pretty our original face are?

 

[gnomon]

So you're going to be angry with me because you either picked the wrong row to hoe or were dealt a poor hand. If it was me I'd say I picked a tough row to hoe, otherwise I'd be like you, I've fallen and can't get up. Please, I'm all out of feeling sorry and believe you guys spend too much time feeling sorry for yourselves.

Not angry.

I feel sorry for your anti-intellectual response.

I responded to your statement that "we always have a choice".

That is unequivocally false.

You decided with the garbage response of a row to hoe...."I've fallen and can't get up".......well that was a horse**** response.

Feeling sorry for myself. I'm the guy who has the capacity calling out your stupidity.

I don't feel sorry for myself.......and definitely not for you.

What? You thought I had dementia based upon your response. Did you actually read the response you gave. Are you losing capacity to differentiate between objects in statements?

No.....your belief is garbage. As I said to your prior statement. I have no , dear god, row to hoe.......what crap.

You are ignoring the state of the human mind as it can develop to the point of being incapable of being to, as you say, "stand up for yourself".

This thread reads like......."I've risen above my physical disabilities so those with mental ones should just be able to do like me...."

Which of course is egotistical garbage and quite sad.

 

[gnomon]

In less harsh terms its an excuse, we always have a choice. We are always making choices. Even if one is in a situation where opposition in any form results in death, we either choose to endure the situation or accept death. If we choose to endure then we make up words like powerlessness.
In most situation, we accept the term because the situation in question is not felt to be that relevant.
Life is, because we choose endure it as, we found it.

Reread your OP.

It's ****ing garbage.

You offer up a providence without understanding much of life.

I congratulate you on your efforts. Too bad you lack wisdom.

 

[Tmac]

In One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest we were asked to believe that will power and positive thinking are more powerful than lobotomy. They aren't, any more than other particular forms of basic brain damage can be overcome by positive thinking and willpower.

It remains true, of course, that in all such things a positive attitude is likely to lead to a better outcome than the alternative.

And here you're in effect saying that a positive attitude is always available, a given. It isn't. Certain conditions of the brain can prevent access to it, even in individuals who would have sworn they were positive by nature. Depression is real. (Or, real depression is real; we've already mentioned cases where it's an excuse.)

For example, one of the simple but positive steps in ameliorating depression is having the sufferer walk outdoors for an hour a day. People with moderate cases can hear, understand and often, not always, do that; but people down the scale can't, and must be helped, and sometimes can't be helped. You say that's their fault. In the area I'm talking about, it isn't.

Just curious, have you ever experienced depression, the one you seem to think you know everything about.
I wonder do you think your patients can see their hopelessness in your eyes?

Fault? Is that what you hear? BTW, choices are made regardless to attitude so lets get off the attitude idea, it is not pertinent to the ability and decision to and in making a choice.

(It is written that when you are looking for something it is hard to see anything else, with this in mind, I didn't get what you got out of Cuckoo's Nest.)

 

[Tmac]

In One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest we were asked to believe that will power and positive thinking are more powerful than lobotomy. They aren't, any more than other particular forms of basic brain damage can be overcome by positive thinking and willpower.

It remains true, of course, that in all such things a positive attitude is likely to lead to a better outcome than the alternative.

And here you're in effect saying that a positive attitude is always available, a given. It isn't. Certain conditions of the brain can prevent access to it, even in individuals who would have sworn they were positive by nature. Depression is real. (Or, real depression is real; we've already mentioned cases where it's an excuse.)

For example, one of the simple but positive steps in ameliorating depression is having the sufferer walk outdoors for an hour a day. People with moderate cases can hear, understand and often, not always, do that; but people down the scale can't, and must be helped, and sometimes can't be helped. You say that's their fault. In the area I'm talking about, it isn't.

Just curious, have you ever experienced depression, the one you seem to think you know everything about.
I wonder do you think your patients can see their hopelessness in your eyes?

Fault? Is that what you hear? BTW, choices are made regardless to attitude so lets get off the attitude idea, it is not pertinent to the ability and decision to and in making a choice.

(It is written that when you are looking for something it is hard to see anything else, with this in mind, I didn't get what you got out of Cuckoo's Nest.)

Choice 1: Endure the situation.
Choice 2: Accept death.
Choice 3: Don't have to endure the situation nor accept death.

A person don't want to choose choice 1 and 2, he wants to choose choice 3 but was unable to do so, that is powerlessness. Why is his powerlessness to choose choice 3 a lie/excuse?

We don't have the power to: revive dead people; go back to the past to change what has already happen; cure disease which is currently uncurable. Powerlessness exists.

We always have a choice?
We can choose to live forever?
We can choose to revive our deceased loved?
We can choose to revert time and start our life all over?
We can choose to born in a family free of abusive parents?
We can choose our race, blood type and how pretty our original face are?

Know Thyself? It appears as though you have come to a conclusion. Bravo!

 

[Tmac]

Not angry.

I feel sorry for your anti-intellectual response.

I responded to your statement that "we always have a choice".

That is unequivocally false.

You decided with the garbage response of a row to hoe...."I've fallen and can't get up".......well that was a horse**** response.

Feeling sorry for myself. I'm the guy who has the capacity calling out your stupidity.

I don't feel sorry for myself.......and definitely not for you.

What? You thought I had dementia based upon your response. Did you actually read the response you gave. Are you losing capacity to differentiate between objects in statements?

No.....your belief is garbage. As I said to your prior statement. I have no , dear god, row to hoe.......what crap.

You are ignoring the state of the human mind as it can develop to the point of being incapable of being to, as you say, "stand up for yourself".

This thread reads like......."I've risen above my physical disabilities so those with mental ones should just be able to do like me...."

Which of course is egotistical garbage and quite sad.

You seem to have a profound understanding of garbage.

 

[blü 2]

Fault? Is that what you hear?

Loud and clear. You're saying that positive thinking and good ol' grit must conquer, and it's your fault if you can't do that. Sometimes you're right. But sometimes you're sure as eggs wrong.

BTW, choices are made regardless to attitude so lets get off the attitude idea

Attitude is often an expression of the underlying condition of the emotions, which are themselves forms of reaction of the physical brain. When you're well, they're in control. When you're not, they may or may not be.

And when you're in (real) depression your mood, hence your attitude, hence your inclination to make or not make, particular kinds of decisions, very usually isn't in your control.

 

[Tmac]

Loud and clear. You're saying that positive thinking and good ol' grit must conquer, and it's your fault if you can't do that. Sometimes you're right. But sometimes you're sure as eggs wrong.

Attitude is often an expression of the underlying condition of the emotions, which are themselves forms of reaction of the physical brain. When you're well, they're in control. When you're not, they may or may not be.

And when you're in (real) depression your mood, hence your attitude, hence your inclination to make or not make, particular kinds of decisions, very usually isn't in your control.

I think that is something that you want to hear, I am saying there is always a choice, whether you choose to believe that or nor is entirely up to the you, why does that upset you. I think you got a problem.

As for the rest of your response, I think psychobabble would cover it.

Just curious, did you identify with Nurse Ratched in the movie/book?

 

[blü 2]

I think that is something that you want to hear, I am saying there is always a choice, whether you choose to believe that or nor is entirely up to the you, why does that upset you. I think you got a problem.

Then after an open and frank exchange of views, we agree to disagree.

You think, no doubt on grounds that are satisfactory in your view, there is always a choice in fact.

I think, on grounds that are satisfactory to me, that on many occasions no such choice is accessible to the sufferer.

So there it is, and I'll leave you to it.

 

[Tmac]

Then after an open and frank exchange of views, we agree to disagree.

You think, no doubt on grounds that are satisfactory in your view, there is always a choice in fact.

I think, on grounds that are satisfactory to me, that on many occasions no such choice is accessible to the sufferer.

So there it is, and I'll leave you to it.

Actually the saying should read that we agree that we disagree, I don't want to disagree, its my mind set, I can't see it any other way, if I didn't have a choice, life would be black and white and I didn't find that mind set enjoyable.

So, till we meet again may we both grown in awareness and understanding.

 

[blü 2]

Actually the saying should read that we agree that we disagree, I don't want to disagree, its my mind set, I can't see it any other way, if I didn't have a choice, life would be black and white and I didn't find that mind set enjoyable.

So, till we meet again may we both grown in awareness and understanding.

Thank you.

And may you never find out whether I'm right or not.

 

[Tmac]

Thank you.

And may you never find out whether I'm right or not.

Why do I get the feeling that your last sentence is a lot like I'm praying for you.

 

[Willamena]

In less harsh terms its an excuse, we always have a choice. We are always making choices. Even if one is in a situation where opposition in any form results in death, we either choose to endure the situation or accept death. If we choose to endure then we make up words like powerlessness.
In most situation, we accept the term because the situation in question is not felt to be that relevant.
Life is, because we choose endure it as, we found it.

Every abstract is a "lie" if its seen for what it is. But it is rarely seen for what it is.

Powerlessness happens in the face of inevitable consequence. We can make all the choices we want, but that's not going to deter the inevitable.

 

[Tmac]

Every abstract is a "lie" if its seen for what it is. But it is rarely seen for what it is.

Powerlessness happens in the face of inevitable consequence. We can make all the choices we want, but that's not going to deter the inevitable.

"Choices we want", you must live a sheltered life, some of us have to make choices we don't want but some how if honest we know we chose to be in that situation.

 

[Tmac]

"Choices we want", you must live a sheltered life, some of us have to make choices we don't want but some how if honest we know we chose to be in that situation.

I'm sorry I apologize for my response, I completely forgot that some one could be responding to the initial post without being aware of its whole history.