Jeremiah
Well-Known Member
But it such a warm and fuzzy blanket, which smells of strawberries. And, not only that, I also think Hedonism Bot had and excellent point when he said, "Less reality, more fantasy."
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But it such a warm and fuzzy blanket, which smells of strawberries. And, not only that, I also think Hedonism Bot had and excellent point when he said, "Less reality, more fantasy."
dancingsky
Well away from here
Either god was responsible for ALL creation or he wasn't. If he was responsible the whole shooting match is down to him. If he created human nature and it didn't turn out as he hoped he can't blame anyone but himself. Tthere is a saying, a bad workman blames his tools. If the Bible is correct God blames humans for any badness in this world, which is wrong if he is the creator.
Strength & Honor
Member
Sorry, Madhuri. I left town on Thursday afternoon, and I was gone all weekend. I did not have regular access to the internet (I cant believe these hotels want to charge for something that I can go to Crystal Burger and get for free ), but Im back now. I hope it's not too late to continue our discussion.
Evil did not exist until after the creation brought it into the world. God gave his creation free will, so Adam and Eve were free to choose obedience or disobedience. Just as the angels were, apparently.
I agree that God knew that, eventually, man would sin against Him at some point. But it is also my belief that, knowing this would occur, God planned for the salvation of all mankind from the very beginning.
By all indications, Adam and Eve had a very close relationship with God, and they communicated with each other directly. They knew full well the consequences of eating the fruit, for God had warned them that In the day you eat of it, you shall surely die. They allowed themselves to be deceived, and they disobeyed the will of God.
If you take the Genesis account literally, and taking into account the other passages within the scriptures concerning this subject, the exact timeline is unclear. However, I think we can determine the following from the bible:
1. God created everything, and it was very good.
2. Sometime after that, the angels rebelled, Satan being among them
3. Sometime after that, Satan tempted Adam and Eve
So, God did not create Satan, as an evil being. He became evil at some point after creation.
According to the bible, every person is responsible for their own relationship with God; Their own faith, their own obedience, their own actions. Only those who a) do not believe that Jesus is Christ, and b) do not obey, are punished, just like Adam and Eve.
Eve knew God, and she knew the consequences of her disobedience to Him.
Would it be better if we were all forced to serve God?
Jeremiah
Well-Known Member
Sorry, Madhuri. I left town on Thursday afternoon, and I was gone all weekend. I did not have regular access to the internet (I can’t believe these hotels want to charge for something that I can go to Crystal Burger and get for free…, but I’m back now. I hope it's not too late to continue our discussion.
Evil did not exist until after the creation brought it into the world. God gave his creation free will, so Adam and Eve were free to choose obedience or disobedience. Just as the angels were, apparently.
I agree that God knew that, eventually, man would sin against Him at some point. But it is also my belief that, knowing this would occur, God planned for the salvation of all mankind from the very beginning.
By all indications, Adam and Eve had a very close relationship with God, and they communicated with each other directly. They knew full well the consequences of eating the fruit, for God had warned them that “In the day you eat of it, you shall surely die.” They allowed themselves to be deceived, and they disobeyed the will of God.
If you take the Genesis account literally, and taking into account the other passages within the scriptures concerning this subject, the exact timeline is unclear. However, I think we can determine the following from the bible:
1. God created everything, and it was very good.
2. Sometime after that, the angels rebelled, Satan being among them
3. Sometime after that, Satan tempted Adam and Eve
So, God did not create Satan, as an evil being. He became evil at some point after creation.
According to the bible, every person is responsible for their own relationship with God; Their own faith, their own obedience, their own actions. Only those who a) do not believe that Jesus is Christ, and b) do not obey, are punished, just like Adam and Eve.
Eve knew God, and she knew the consequences of her disobedience to Him.
Would it be better if we were all forced to serve God?
"Evil did not exist until after the creation brought it into the world. God gave his creation free will, so Adam and Eve were free to choose obedience or disobedience. Just as the angels were, apparently."
Didn't Adam and Eva gain the knowledge of evil by eating from the tree of knowledge? Does this not mean that evil didn't come from humans, but rather from the tree of knowledge?
"1. God created everything, and it was very good.
2. Sometime after that, the angels rebelled, Satan being among them"
If things were very good, then why did the angels rebel?
"3. Sometime after that, Satan tempted Adam and Eve"
Doesn't the Bible just say serpent? So how do you know it was Satan? And how did he get into the garden, without God's knowledge? And if God knew, does that mean He just let Satan run free in his garden paradise?
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I don't believe that Satan is a being, but is symbolic of our flesh, which is weak to temptation. That is one way around "the problem with evil" argument.
JustWondering
Jerk
If I had to choose between slavery and eternal torture I would choose slavery.
JustWondering
Jerk
Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
It would be impossible to force someone to serve God who doesn't want to or doesn't believe. It would be lip service and nothing more. And it would cause resentment. So no, it would not be better, it would be much worse.
at least if he was forcing us to serve him we'd have some indication that he actually exists. his current plan is leaving a lot of room for speculation.
I shouldn't expect anyone to have seen me during some hard days when I cried out "God, why are you doing this to me?"
Strength & Honor
Member
The NASB, ESV, and NKJV all use the word calamity here. Likewise, the NIV uses the word disaster. This, in conjunction with the context of the passage itself, should make it clear. The Isaiah passage is not a statement that God has brought any sort of moral corruption into the world, but that he brings destruction on those who oppose him.
Heres a good article on the subject: http://www.gotquestions.org/Isaiah-45-7.html
JustWondering
Jerk
So the bible was changed again to suit current societies interpretations of what was meant. If it really were the word of a God the bible should be able to stand on its own without needing to be "interpreted" and changed.
It occurs to me that killing people for opposing them is something a violent tyrant would do. Creating a place specifically for the purpose of torturing people seems like an evil thing to do. Setting the bar too high for someone to reach and then punishing them for it seems like an insane and evil thing as well.
search the scriptures
Member
just wondering : "Setting the bar too high for someone to reach and then punishing them for it"
you missed giving man a free way out...
you missed giving man a free way out...
Strength & Honor
Member
If you want to rely on an outdated translation of the bible to pick the verses you like (or don't like), then go ahead.
It does. It's just that some people don't know how to use it in context. So, they need to have it explained to them, apparently.
Dont eat the fruit from that one tree seems simple to me.
JustWondering
Jerk
Do you believe that people go to hell and burn for all eternity?
JustWondering
Jerk
So you take Genesis literally?
averageJOE
zombie
Are you saying the words of an omnipotent god can become "outdated"?
Strength & Honor
Member
Not hardly. Language changes over time, so it's the translation that can become outdated.
Jeremiah
Well-Known Member
Then the answer is yes you do.
Jeremiah
Well-Known Member
"'Don’t eat the fruit from that one tree' seems simple to me."
But it is the tree if knowledge. Adam and Eva didn't know the difference between right and wrong before they ate from the tree. So how would've they had even known that disobeying God was a bad thing? Heck, before they ate from the tree, they didn't even realize they were naked.