Praising Putin.

[The Hammer]

What I find funny. Is what Jesus and Paul actually had to say about violence and warfare.

What Does the Bible Say About War?

In the New Testament, war is universally seen as evil and Jesus emphasized peace instead. He advised us to avoid retaliation and revenge and to extend our love even to our enemies.

"You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you. You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. (NIV, Matthew 5:38-45)

The apostle Paul and other New testament writers echoed Jesus' sentiment and expanded on it.

Never pay back evil for evil to anyone. Respect what is right in the sight of all men. If possible, so far as it depends on you, be at peace with all men. Never take your own revenge, beloved, but leave room for the wrath of God, for it is written, "Vengeance is Mine, I will repay," says the Lord. "But if your enemy is hungry, feed him, and if he is thirsty, give him a drink; for in so doing you will heap burning coals upon his head." Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good. (NAS, Romans 12:17-21)

Edit: Did Putin meet these requirements before waging his campaign?

"Christian theologians St. Augustine of Hippo (354 - 430) and St. Thomas Aquinas (1225-1274) are primarily responsible for formulating the theory of the Just War which has remained the majority Christian approach to war to this day. There are many variations on the just war theory, but these are the basics:

There must be a just cause for the war.

War must be waged only in response to certain, grave and lasting damage inflicted by an aggressor.

The motive for war must be advancement of good or avoidance of evil.

The ultimate objective of war must be to bring peace.

Revenge, revolt, a desire to harm, dominate, or exploit and similar things are not justification for war.

Every possible means of peacefully settling the conflict must be exhausted first.

There must be serious prospects of success; bloodshed without hope of victory cannot be justified.

The war must be declared by a legitimate authority.

Private individuals or groups should seek redress of their rights through their governments, not by acts of war.

The war must not cause greater evil than the evil to be eliminated.

Non-combatants (civilians) must not be intentionally harmed.

Prisoners and conquered peoples must be treated justly.

 

[John D. Brey]

The thing is, I admired Putin greatly before the invasion. I felt his passion, his sense of nationalism, his patriotic demeanor, love of country, and his clear love and respect for those who served the Russian army, including those who were under the USSR banner.

He has an active life that few world leaders partake in like horsemenship and Judo. He also has a classy "Putin Walk" for which I even posted vids on this forum. The man was charismatic as hell.

Unfortunately, that amazing goodwill and admiration disappeared when he violated the prime rules of being an officer and a gentleman as he publicly reaffirmed time and time again he had no plans on invasion, but broke his word as he ordered his army into Ukraine to kill people including children now.

It's a tragedy to see things go in that direction but that's the way it is today. There's not much good to be said about the man anymore.

My spiritual father, Col. Thieme, said when you defend your rights with a 357 magnum, you don't have to explain the gun to the person you're using it against. You don't have to say: "This is the trigger, and this is the the barrel where the bullet that's about to pierce your skull comes out."

You don't have to say a thing. You just pull the trigger. Viola!

When Putin lined up his army on the boarder of Russia, and the US told Ukraine's President that Russia was going to pull the trigger, Ukraine's President told us to mind our own business and quit being drama queens. This from a man who's Ukraine's equivalent of Don Knots, Barney Fife.

I'm certain if the USA ever elected Don Knots President, we would be inviting invasion. Unless, that is, Andy let's him take his bullet out of his breast pocket.



John

 

[The Hammer]

My spiritual father, Col. Thieme, said when you defend your rights with a 357 magnum, you don't have to explain the gun to the person you're using it against. You don't have to say: "This is the trigger, and this is the the barrel where the bullet that's about to pierce your skull comes out."

You don't have to say a thing. You just pull the trigger. Viola!

When Putin lined up his army on the boarder of Russia, and the US told Ukraine's President that Russia was going to pull the trigger, Ukraine's President told us to mind our own business and quit being drama queens. This from a man who's Ukraine's equivalent of Don Knots, Barney Fife.

I'm certain if the USA ever elected Don Knots President, we would be inviting invasion. Unless, that is, Andy let's him take his bullet out of his breast pocket.



John

See post #42

 

[John D. Brey]

We absolutely did exterminate women and children in Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Care to explain how we didn't? I've been to both locations and seen the history of them.

Lot's of people died in the Civil War. And in the Spartan wars, and in most wars ever fought.

Lot's of people died in Hiroshima when the USA waged war against Japan.

The word "exterminate" is found on pest killers. It has no place in the waging of war, which, the waging of war, is glorious, while exterminating pests is just good.



John

 

[John D. Brey]

What I find funny. Is what Jesus and Paul actually had to say about violence and warfare.

What I find remarkable is that wars have been fought over who gets to interpret what Jesus and Paul actually said. And yet outhouse geniuses think the matter has been subsumed in what their dad or their rabbi or their pastor tells them Jesus and Paul actually said.

Worse is those who rely on lexicographers to tell them what Jesus and Paul actually said. Or those who think a written text (the NT) says what it means and means what it says apart from the interpreter or interpretation; and that if Jesus spoke King Jame's English, then it must be some kind of holy tongue/script.



John

 

[John D. Brey]

See post #42

See post #46.



John

 

[Revoltingest]

In the thread discussing St. Paul's take on same-sex marriage, a theory was proffered that, if it's fully understood, leads to praise for Vladimir Putin. While the whole world gangs up on Putin, in truth, Putin is more like the character John Galt in Putin's fellow citizen's universally renown book Atlas Shrugged.

Though today's Christians pile on to the gang rape of Putin, their ancient ancestors, to include St. Paul, and the other Apostles, would be appalled at the Putin haters and not at Putin himself; they'd be appalled that Christians have become so blind and so willing to sell their soul for a crust of bread from their globalist, universalist, humanist, masters.

May our Lord strengthen Putin and enfeeble the feeble-minded oblivious to the fact that in their lust to destroy Putin they're actually destroying the world with whom they're so madly in love (1 John 2:15).

Putin is a Christian version of Ayn Rand's John Galt?
I've had some strange discussions about the invasion on RF.
But now I believe I've heard every possible defense of Putin.
Or is this sarchasm?

 

[John D. Brey]

In my opinion, the only thing worse than total anarchy, is total unanimity of thought. In my opinion, the latter is far more dangerous than the former.​

Well THAT sure sounds like a false dilemma

In total anarchy, no rules need apply. In total unanimity of thought, there are no rules (none are needed since everything is agreed upon by everyone).



John

 

[John D. Brey]

Putin is a Christian version of Ayn Rand's John Galt.
I've had some strange discussions about the invasion on RF.
But now I believe I've heard every possible defense of Putin.
Or is this sarchasm?

Have you read Atlas Shrugged? Or The Fountainhead? If not, I envy you. I've enjoyed few things a much as sitting in a lounge chair by the ocean watching bikinis and reading Ayn Rand for the first time. That opportunity is still before you if you've never read Rand.




John

 

[Revoltingest]

Have you read Atlas Shrugged?

Of course!

Or The Fountainhead?

Saw the movie.
Meh....
Atlas Shrugged was enuf of Ayn Rand for me.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

Nevertheless, everything you wrote above is based not on some universal, logocentric, transcendental signified, reality and truth, but on your opinion as that opinion has come to evolve from your childhood, adolescence, education, psychological biases, i.e., your epistemological development, which is clearly (your epistemological foundation) different than mine.

Whose is more in touch with reality? And why? And is the why itself just a prejudice?



John

Yes... it is just a prejudice and boils down to personal preference. I readily and heartily admit to such! However, the majority of human specimens care about the communal response of those around them... and the clever ones who prize positive (or even neutral alone) results from such interaction learn when their words and behaviors raise the ire of their fellow humans once and again. Those who are not so clever either do not learn, or believe that they DO have such "universal, logocentric, transcendental signified, reality and truth" (as you mentioned) on their side - such that the mass negative reaction from their fellow humans is simply not allowed to mean much - for the perspective of those others is seen as a "worldly" perspective, far reduced from one's own lofty position - eh? My guess is that you are one of those. Stubborn in your self-assurances that you are transcendentally gifted, and any dissenting opinions are from those who are not "of the grace" of some ridiculous, unseen apparition or another - possibly an apparition no more profound than one's own reflection in a mirror.

 

[Wildswanderer]

What I hear from the Western media is a cacophony of cries about how Putin is evil for conducting war.

There's certain ways of conducting war that aren't acceptable according to the concensus of civilizatized nations.

 

[icehorse]

In total anarchy, no rules need apply. In total unanimity of thought, there are no rules (none are needed since everything is agreed upon by everyone).
John

Do you allow for a range of options other than the two you've listed?

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

In the thread discussing St. Paul's take on same-sex marriage, a theory was proffered that, if it's fully understood, leads to praise for Vladimir Putin. While the whole world gangs up on Putin, in truth, Putin is more like the character John Galt in Putin's fellow citizen's universally renown book Atlas Shrugged.

Though today's Christians pile on to the gang rape of Putin, their ancient ancestors, to include St. Paul, and the other Apostles, would be appalled at the Putin haters and not at Putin himself; they'd be appalled that Christians have become so blind and so willing to sell their soul for a crust of bread from their globalist, universalist, humanist, masters.

May our Lord strengthen Putin and enfeeble the feeble-minded oblivious to the fact that in their lust to destroy Putin they're actually destroying the world with whom they're so madly in love (1 John 2:15).

John

Outrageous! The wanton murder of civilians, including children (one with umbilical stump still there) is definitely NOT SOMETHING YOU SHOULD BE ASKING GOD TO GIVE THE MURDERER STRENGTH TO CONTINUE.

Clearly, from your own wording, you are much more interested in the subjugation of human beings to your bizarre ideas than you are to anything that Jesus ever said.

And what did the pretender Paul know of Jesus anyway? He, almost single-handedly, spear-headed the effort to turn Jesus into "the Christ," and something that Jesus himself would never have countenanced.

 

[sun rise]

To praise PooTin is to praise evil and to reject Christ.

 

[The Hammer]

See post #46.



John

I did.

You have no rebuttal. Except a mild slight of name calling.

In Jesus' name I hope you find peace.

Yours under the Sacred Oaks,
Hammer

 

[Ashoka]

Lot's of people died in the Civil War. And in the Spartan wars, and in most wars ever fought.

Lot's of people died in Hiroshima when the USA waged war against Japan.

The word "exterminate" is found on pest killers. It has no place in the waging of war, which, the waging of war, is glorious, while exterminating pests is just good.



John

I'm truly saddened. Innocent people died in that bombing. Human bodies were turned to carbon. People are still suffering from it to this day, years later. It wasn't glorious. War isn't glorious. And the people who suffer the brunt of war are not pests. Real people, real souls, were killed and extinguished because of people (mostly men, but that's a whole other discussion) who couldn't get along or solve their problems without fighting.

You are sadly stuck in an ideal of war being something to be proud of. Putin is murdering innocents, and you think it's okay because you hate gay people. The only sin and hate I see is in your post. You congratulate, even pray, for Putin.

War is always, always wrong. I'm sorry that your cult, I mean, religion, has blinded you to that.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Lot's of people died in the Civil War. And in the Spartan wars, and in most wars ever fought.

Lot's of people died in Hiroshima when the USA waged war against Japan.

The word "exterminate" is found on pest killers. It has no place in the waging of war, which, the waging of war, is glorious, while exterminating pests is just good.



John

I note you put it thus: "when the USA waged war against Japan."

Curious, because I don't actually remember that the USA launched a raid on a Japanese port, and I do seem to remember something about another port called "Pearl" something, that was attackedl by Japan. Are these things unknown to you -- or just things you'd rather not acknowledge?

And, really -- "the waging of war is glorious?" What's the glory? Try to sus that out in your usual over-long prose.

 

[Spiderman]

Sorry RF,
I had to rate @John D. Brey , his post, creative.

I think what Putin is doing, and the people that are suffering in the Ukraine as a result of it, and some of the people suffering in Russia as a result of it, is very terrible.

On the same token, the op is following the convictions of his heart regarding what he believes is right.

He's choosing to lose friends and look extremely terrible, following what his conscience tells him is right.

I cannot help but admire his willingness to be different. It takes courage to follow the convictions of your heart, when 99% of the people at a discussion forum or in any circumstance , are going to despise you for your comments.

I cannot say that praising Putin is ever okay when we are in a time like this, where he is committing a war of aggression against a fellow Christian nation.

Wars of aggression against any Nation are terrible, but Ukraine is a devoutly Eastern Orthodox Christian country like Russia, on average, last I checked. They are, many of them russians, or mixed with russians, or very close cousins of the Russian people.

Ukraine and Russia were part of the same Empire , or Union, for so long. If the op was praising and Islamic leader who started a war of aggression, or Sharia law, I could not disagree more with what he was saying, but I would still admire his courage to be different, and follow his convictions, and follow what his conscience tells him is right, because he is taking the path of most resistance. It isn't easy being mocked and despised!

I think Putin is wrong for attacking the Ukraine, very wrong.

Are we much better? When I see the moral decadence of the West, how sick and disordered we are, the stuff that is pushed in the media and entertainment industry, our wars of aggression, how secular we are, how many unwanted pregnancies we have, how badly the sexually transmitted disease problem is, how our families break up , and how many fatherless children there are, how many abortions there are how many rapists and pedophiles there are, how much crime there is, the percentage of people we have behind bars, it's hard for me to be patriotic , and see us as being that much more of a morally sound culture than present day Russia.

Though I would never praise Putin at a time like this, (while innocent people are being killed as a result of his decisions), I still see that at a forum like this ( where the vast vast majority of people are strongly against anyone speaking favoritively about him), I cannot help but admire the willingness a person would have to be mocked, to be despised, to be ganged up on, promoting what they believe is the right thing, based on what is in Scripture.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Putin is a Christian version of Ayn Rand's John Galt?
I've had some strange discussions about the invasion on RF.
But now I believe I've heard every possible defense of Putin.
Or is this sarchasm?

Sarcasm (sic) requires at least a modicum of cleverness. There is absolutely nothing of the kind evident in what this self-described "Christian" @John D. Brey says. Hatred, brutality, uncharitability -- all things that Jesus would have loathed -- but no cleverness.