Praying to god for help, does it really make any sense?

[mojtaba]

Now I have heard an answer like God's heart is like butter, it melts easily to a little warmth. But some warmth must be provided.

If you want to then ask why do prayers sometimes get answered (or in ways not asked for) and not answered, then I would get into a chain of events and causes that we are not aware of from our limited perspective.

God does not change. If you mean that God before our prayer is not kind, and after it He becomes kind, this means that He changes, while changing is the characteristic of the creatures.

 

[ronandcarol]

Praying to god for help, does it really make any sense?
When you pray to the small 'g' god for 'wants' in your life, instead of needs, your prayers usually never get past the ceiling. When you pray to the One True God with faith, He hears you and answers in His time frame, not ours. The Bible says that He knows our needs even before we ask Him. And also, we need to petition things that are according to His will for us. He knows our needs and wants to fulfill our needs. He also likes to be thanked and appreciated.

ronandcarol

 

[George-ananda]

God does not change. If you mean that God before our prayer is not kind, and after it He becomes kind, this means that He changes, while changing is the characteristic of the creatures.

Right, God does not change but people do. God's side of the door is always open, but on our side we can choose, lock, open or ignore.

 

[buddhist]

What I've always found peculiar about prayers asking for assistance is that they assume god is either

1) unaware that help is needed, which if true certainly doesn't speak well for his omniscience. So prayer is sort of a wake-up call to god to tend to business. OR. . . . . . .

2) he is aware, but has decided not to help until ask, which to me is kind of petty to say the least. "If you don't ask me nicely, yes, I will let little Johnny die."

Both of which touch on the question of why god supposedly helps some and not others. Got any clue?

So, am I missing something here, or in the end is god simply fickle?

.

In early Buddhism, the devas-gods - though far more powerful than humans are still limited beings - so they may or may not help. The "higher" the god, the less interested they are in the human realm. The "lower" the god, the more interested they are, but the less power they have as well.

And then again, they also reap the result of their kamma too just like humans, so I wouldn't expect many of them to intervene lest they do something wrong.

In like manner, I doubt many of us take much time to hear, understand, or even address the petitions of lifeforms lesser than us.

 

[Neo Deist]

What I've always found peculiar about prayers asking for assistance is that they assume god is either

1) unaware that help is needed, which if true certainly doesn't speak well for his omniscience. So prayer is sort of a wake-up call to god to tend to business. OR. . . . . . .

2) he is aware, but has decided not to help until ask, which to me is kind of petty to say the least. "If you don't ask me nicely, yes, I will let little Johnny die."

Both of which touch on the question of why god supposedly helps some and not others. Got any clue?

So, am I missing something here, or in the end is god simply fickle?

.

From a deistic perspective...

Prayers should be ones of thanks and gratitude, not "I need something." The needy prayers will seemingly go unanswered. Let's dive into a couple of key points:

1. If God is omniscient, then God is aware of what you need before you ask for it. Logic would dictate that if God truly loved and cared about you as an individual, then God would intervene. God would cure our ailments, stop wars, save Little Johnny, etc. The fact that wars continue, Little Johnny dies, and people suffer, pretty much rules out #1.

2. God, not wanting to be the puppet master, gave us free will. Whatever choices we make, we deal with the consequences of our actions or inactions. The result is that God may truly care and love us, but does not intervene by way of Its convictions. People choose to wage war. People choose to commit crimes. People choose to do things that may cause cancer.

If #2 is true, which is the usual deist belief, then God does not answer prayers because of free will. Why then offer prayers of thanks to a seemingly "hands off" God? Because we were given life and the freedom of choice. It is our way of honoring the Creator.

Addendum:

I have heard of people praying their hearts out over something (Little Johnny dying of a brain tumor) and when the prayers go unanswered, they ask "why?" Some of the answers other people have given are either cop outs or downright cruel. For example:

The Lord works in mysterious ways. We don't see God's bigger picture. Everything happens for a reason. All will be revealed in due time.

Your faith was not true. Your faith was not strong enough. You did not pray hard enough. You did not truly believe.

Both are complete garbage. The first set are recited by those that don't actually have an answer but want to make the person(s) feel better. The second are recited by cold, heartless a**holes that need a lesson in civility.

The real answer is that God gave us free will, and our choices affect the world we live in; past, present and future.

 

[Skwim]

I didn't say that we don't have prayers asking G-d for help. I explained that the asking for help is a medium to getting closer to G-d and not an end to itself.

I believe that if you ask those praying to god for help their immediate goal is for that help, and if it wasn't they wouldn't be taking the time right then to pray. Trying to get help from god is the end in itself of such a prayer. Asked why they're praying to god I'm quite certain they would say, "to get god's help," and not "to get closer to god."

No, I'm saying, if you have a specific group in mind, you should address that group and not sound as though you are making a blanket statement towards the monolithic entity known as "theists" as you've done here in your OP and subsequent posts on this thread.

Thing is, I give people here credit enough to recognize whether a statement or question pertains to them or not. That you evidently cannot is unfortunate, but


.

 

[Tumah]

I believe that if you ask those praying to god for help their immediate goal is for that help, and if it wasn't they wouldn't be taking the time to pray for it. Trying to get help from god is the end in itself of such a prayer. Asked why they're praying to god I'm quite certain they would say, "to get god's help," and not "to get closer to god."

What the ignoramus thinks he's doing and what he's actually doing doesn't have to be related.

Thing is, I give people here credit enough to recognize whether a statement or question pertains to them or not. That you evidently cannot is unfortunate, but


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Nice dodge. You made it quite clear up until I pointed it out, you meant "theists" and not "specific theists". Eg. your posts following the OP.

 

[Twilight Hue]

What exactly is prayer to people anyway?

Mental phone call?

Telepathy?

Self reflection?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

What I've always found peculiar about prayers asking for assistance is that they assume god is either

1) unaware that help is needed, which if true certainly doesn't speak well for his omniscience. So prayer is sort of a wake-up call to god to tend to business. OR. . . . . . .

2) he is aware, but has decided not to help until ask, which to me is kind of petty to say the least. "If you don't ask me nicely, yes, I will let little Johnny die."

Both of which touch on the question of why god supposedly helps some and not others. Got any clue?

So, am I missing something here, or in the end is god simply fickle?

.

Maybe prayer is a comfort ritual no matter how much they put into it and describe. As a comfort ritual, it's not something they need to do but feel they need to because they feel, because of scripture or whatever, god wants them to.

If god is aware of their prayers, as scripture says, then comfort prayers is more of them being aware of the answer god already has for them. Also, it could be also they want to be aware but feel conviction for asking too much (to be god) so prayer is more conversation with god not strict petition.

If god is away but doesn't answer unless they pray, that doesn't make sense. If god is aware of their prayers, they are not aware that he is already working with them or has an answer for them that they have yet (as they say, as mere humans) to find. It's usually about the "mere humans" and "limited knowledge" we have that gives god a get-out-of-jail free card in what some anti-theists think he does or doesn't do.

I'd say god helps all people. In other countries, many people are dying of thirst et cetera but they aren't dying in faith. To someone with faith, faith or believing in god is more important than their lives. So, I'd see it in their position. In America, people are starving spiritually rather than for many spiritually. It comes in many forms.

I wouldn't look at it through god's perspective unless you know god personally. I'd address it through human perspective since at least you have some perspective of what its like to be a human to understand the mystery of life (which is another definition of god).

 

[Windwalker]

What I've always found peculiar about prayers asking for assistance is that they assume god is either

1) unaware that help is needed, which if true certainly doesn't speak well for his omniscience. So prayer is sort of a wake-up call to god to tend to business. OR. . . . . . .

2) he is aware, but has decided not to help until ask, which to me is kind of petty to say the least. "If you don't ask me nicely, yes, I will let little Johnny die."

Both of which touch on the question of why god supposedly helps some and not others. Got any clue?

So, am I missing something here, or in the end is god simply fickle?

.

Yes. Respectfully, you're missing quite a lot. First your understanding of God a being in the sky who literally hears words magically in every language like Santa Claus who speaks every human tongue (watch Miracle on 34th Street for reference), misses the actual effect and benefit that happens as a result of the act of prayer itself. It doesn't matter "factually", what is in effect purely symbolic. The result has value, even if it didn't happen via "magic" by a pink sky bunny. It's more powerful than rationality, actually. It's the act of faith itself.

 

[Jonathan Ainsley Bain]

What I've always found peculiar about prayers asking for assistance is that they assume god is either

1) unaware that help is needed, which if true certainly doesn't speak well for his omniscience. So prayer is sort of a wake-up call to god to tend to business. OR. . . . . . .

2) he is aware, but has decided not to help until ask, which to me is kind of petty to say the least. "If you don't ask me nicely, yes, I will let little Johnny die."

Both of which touch on the question of why god supposedly helps some and not others. Got any clue?

So, am I missing something here, or in the end is god simply fickle?

.

You assume that 'Johnny' dying must be a bad thing.
Johnny's spirit may be needed elsewhere, see?
Only when you ignore the transcendent spirit does it make
sense to pray for him not to die.

By praying honestly one gives up the desire to 'cling' to the spirit of another.

So by contemplating death in the light of prayer one sees beyond one's own ego.
God is logical. So Johnny's spirit is either here or not here. By praying deeply
you perhaps may convince God that your need of his spirit is greater than
whatever need is pulling his spirit elsewhere.

Often the prayers of many souls are in conflict with one another, but the universe
is a better place for being an objective place where death has a rigid effect.
After all, you will die, and may see Johnny in the next world, so death is only
temporarily saying goodbye for a while.

By giving up his spirit, we create a future reunion which is all the sweeter for the
longer than our spirits are apart.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"See you in the next world, don't be late" - Jimi Hendrix
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[roger1440]

Prayer is not about changing the world in which we live. It's about changing the way in which we live within the world. A person will receive far greater riches if he prays to be content with what he has rather then a pot of gold.

 

[Kuzcotopia]

Don't pray. Don't wanna pray.

Getting closer to a god, experiencing some kid of mystical experience, or just trying to lose those last ten pounds. . . Whatever.

What's important to me: People keep their prayers to themselves, don't impose it on me and my family, and don't get personally offended if/when we don't participate, and especially don't make an argument that your prayer gets some kind of special treatment or reverence at non-religious public events. . . then it's all good. . . pray away. Away from me.

 

[Aštra’el]

For me, the primary purpose of prayer is to strengthen the bond between the individual and the God(s), to grow in the most prominent attributes of the God(s), and to strengthen the power and influence of the God(s) within one's subjective universe and spiritual-religious system.

 

[Skwim]

Yes. Respectfully, you're missing quite a lot. First your understanding of God a being in the sky who literally hears words magically in every language like Santa Claus who speaks every human tongue (watch Miracle on 34th Street for reference), misses the actual effect and benefit that happens as a result of the act of prayer itself.

Are you saying that god is not omniscient; he doesn't know everything? Or what? Your prose is not clear.

It doesn't matter "factually", what is in effect purely symbolic. The result has value, even if it didn't happen via "magic" by a pink sky bunny. It's more powerful than rationality, actually. It's the act of faith itself.

????

You assume that 'Johnny' dying must be a bad thing.
Johnny's spirit may be needed elsewhere, see?

Not at all. I'm assuming that the one praying for Johnny's life feels his dying would be a bad thing.

So by contemplating death in the light of prayer one sees beyond one's own ego.
God is logical. So Johnny's spirit is either here or not here. By praying deeply
you perhaps may convince God that your need of his spirit is greater than
whatever need is pulling his spirit elsewhere.

So you're saying that this would be something god doesn't know, and something he needs to be convinced of. Doesn't sound like an omniscient god to me at all.

Prayer is not about changing the world in which we live. It's about changing the way in which we live within the world. A person will receive far greater riches if he prays to be content with what he has rather then a pot of gold.

Not saying that praying would change anything, but evidently you feel a person with Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis (ALS---Lou Gehrig’s Disease), should pray to be content with his plight, rather than pray to be without it. Interesting choice.


.

 

[roger1440]

Not saying that praying would change anything, but evidently you feel a person with Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis (ALS---Lou Gehrig’s Disease), should pray to be content with his plight, rather than pray to be without it. Interesting choice.

Which do you think would be the more likely outcome? There is no cure. At the same token, there is no cure for death. A person could pray all day and night, asking God they will never die. If I was a gambling guy I would bet he would still die just like the rest of us.

 

[james bond]

Praying to god for help, does it really make any sense?
When you pray to the small 'g' god for 'wants' in your life, instead of needs, your prayers usually never get past the ceiling. When you pray to the One True God with faith, He hears you and answers in His time frame, not ours. The Bible says that He knows our needs even before we ask Him. And also, we need to petition things that are according to His will for us. He knows our needs and wants to fulfill our needs. He also likes to be thanked and appreciated.

ronandcarol

Yes, this is fact. The only thing is what is the small 'g?' I started giving out candles to acquaintances such as the JW who come to the door and we discuss the Bible. They're nice people and they know my neighbors now. I read the back of these candles and it has a prayer to saints, guardian angel, the sacred heart and so on. That's not the way I learned prayer. We pray to God and not saints nor angels. While the saints, angels, etc. are important, they cannot grant us our prayers. I'll still hand out these candles, as candles are cool, but the prayer part needs explanation for those who do not know.

Also, it's weird to me that atheists would start a thread like this. All I can think of is they want to make fun of G and those who believe. Maybe it's their way of praying since they refer to Him with the 'g.' I have no other explanation.

EDIT: It hit me that praying to saints, angels and so on could refer to Catholicism, too.

 

[Milton Platt]

Ah c'mon. There are other things in the world besides science that make sense. Like using firm apples in an apple pie.


.

I always pray for firm apples

 

[Milton Platt]

Following prayer which is from Imam Sadiq( 6th Shia Imam, peace be upon him ) could help you.

In the Name of Allah, the All-beneficent, the All-merciful.

O He from whom I ask for and expect fulfillment in every good (I do); and in whom I confide to seek safety from His displeasure for every evil I do!
O He who gives much in return of very little (good deeds)!

O He who puts into the hands of the supplicant what he asks for,

O He who (also) let needy, who does not ask for, have what he needs, though he remembers Him not,
Feels compassion, and takes pity on them!
Give me as a gift good in all my objectives in this world and in the Hereafter,
Let me free myself from evil in all my activities in this world and in the Hereafter, because, surely, what Thou gives never goes waste or grows less,

And from Thy bounties let me have more and more,

O the Generous compassionate!

Whatever.....would you like to actually address the OP?????????

 

[Milton Platt]

Yes, this is fact. The only thing is what is the small 'g?' I started giving out candles to acquaintances such as the JW who come to the door and we discuss the Bible. They're nice people and they know my neighbors now. I read the back of these candles and it has a prayer to saints, guardian angel, the sacred heart and so on. That's not the way I learned prayer. We pray to God and not saints nor angels. While the saints, angels, etc. are important, they cannot grant us our prayers. I'll still hand out these candles, as candles are cool, but the prayer part needs explanation for those who do not know.

Also, it's weird to me that atheists would start a thread like this. All I can think of is they want to make fun of G and those who believe. Maybe it's their way of praying since they refer to Him with the 'g.' I have no other explanation.

EDIT: It hit me that praying to saints, angels and so on could refer to Catholicism, too.

seems like a legitimate question to me.....would you like to take a stab at answering it?