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praying to...

Quagmire

Quagmire

Imaginary talking monkey
Staff member
Premium Member
confused453 said:
Do you think it makes more sense to pray to the universe, the sun, the earth, nature, or even cosmic microwave background radiation (the oldest light in the universe) than to some imaginary deity?
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How do you know all that other stuff isn't imaginary? :D
 
Richard81

Richard81

Wrighter.
Katzpur said:
I certainly wouldn't discourage anyone from doing his best to make things happen, and I don't think God would either. I suspect that most people who pray for God's help in accomplishing something are already doing what they can to make it happen.
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I guess it wouldn't hurt to try both. It would Increase your chances of success, if you believe in praying. I don't.
 
The Sum of Awe

The Sum of Awe

Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.
Staff member
Premium Member
Jainarayan said:
That still does not mean it doesn't exist. Are we sure it's not a biological structure? Does it have to be? We don't even know how the brain causes consciousness.
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We have an idea of how, but we know that the brain causes consciousness. What do all conscious beings have in common? A brain.

Where does consciousness go after death? What is consciousness? We're using our limited frame of reference and ascribing what we think we know of reality.
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How would consciousness move? You're speaking as if it itself is a physical thing, when it's actually a process.
 
chinu

chinu

chinu
confused453 said:
Do you think it makes more sense to pray to the universe, the sun, the earth, nature, or even cosmic microwave background radiation (the oldest light in the universe) than to some imaginary deity?
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Yes.. it would make sense.. But only if the one who is blind by birth can IMAGINE this. :)
 
Jainarayan

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
The Sum of Awe said:
We have an idea of how, but we know that the brain causes consciousness. What do all conscious beings have in common? A brain.
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"We have an idea of how... " Ah, so we don't know for sure!

What is a brain? Where defines a brain? How much neural activity is required for an organism to be considered having a brain? Do you know for a fact an ameoba is not conscious? The party line is that it reacts to stimuli... is that really so? Do we know that's all it is?

How would consciousness move? You're speaking as if it itself is a physical thing, when it's actually a process.
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You know this? How!? Neuroscientists and theoretical physicists are not even sure what is conscious and what is not, where consciousness comes from, and where it goes. Quantum entanglement and consciousness as part of the universe... ?

[youtube]l7E6sihLgdU[/youtube]
Through The Wormhole S02 Ep01 - Life After Death- YouTube start @ 10:01 Stuart Hameroff - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
[youtube]9jXRZebbe5k[/youtube]
Through the Wormhole S3E3 Is the Universe Alive? HQ - YouTube

Again, still, yet... you are working within an anthropomorphic frame of reference, which I utterly reject. I'll go with the works and opinions of degreed scientists, and what my gut tells me.
 
Koldo

Koldo

Outstanding Member
Jainarayan said:
To talk to him as a child would to its parents. Your father knew you wanted the car keys for Saturday night, not because he is omniscient, but because he knows you. Yet you still asked him. Is he going to just toss you the keys and say "have fun and be careful"? No, it's his job to give you what you need, not what you want, without asking. Need? No need to ask. Want? Yes, ask. Maybe you'll get it, maybe you won't.
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And what do we need?
 
Jainarayan

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
Koldo said:
So, how would one ( other than God ) know that God is giving us what we need?
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That's the faith one has in God. I'm not usually given to quoting Christian scriptures but this will work ("even the devil can quote scripture to his need" - Shakespeare :D):

7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
8 Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him. Matthew 6:7-8

28 And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin:
29 And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. Matthew 6:27-29

7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
9 Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?
10 Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?
11 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father
which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him? Matthew 7:7-11
 
waitasec

waitasec

Veteran Member
Koldo said:
It is God's job to give us what we need, and only God knows what we need.
So, how would one ( other than God ) know that God is giving us what we need?
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seriously though...
this is a great point
what unravels is not unraveled by intent...but by several factors
circumstance
chaos
both under the umbrella of indifference

if one looses their job...is it their fault?
perhaps...they could be bad at it...circumstance
or maybe the boss had to cut spending because of the market...chaos
either way the one loosing the job has no power over that situation which is indifferent to what that person needs
what they do have power over is, how to approach the situation of loosing a job...and that means doing something.
 
Koldo

Koldo

Outstanding Member
Jainarayan said:
That's the faith one has in God.
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Faith that some of us do not need food and water at all, as they starve to death?
Faith that some of us do not need to be healthy, as they undergo amyotrophic lateral sclerosis?

This certainly requires a lot of faith.

Jainarayan said:
I'm not usually given to quoting Christian scriptures but this will work ("even the devil can quote scripture to his need" - Shakespeare :D):

7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
8 Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him. Matthew 6:7-8

28 And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin:
29 And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. Matthew 6:27-29

7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
9 Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?
10 Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?
11 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father
which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him? Matthew 7:7-11
Click to expand...

Do you really want to go along this road?
It says that we are given what we ask for.
If an amputee asks for a missing limb to be restored, it means it will be done.
 
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